Mikelly Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 So I've searched using "Adjustable Sway Bar" and found... Nothing. What I'm looking for is information on adjustable sway bars for the Zcar. I'm sure this will be a custom race parts supplier, but I guess my question is WHO has done this and what did you use??? I'm looking for both front and rear setups. I've found that having adjustable front and rear swaybars has really helped with dialing in (or out) any under or oversteer issues on the other car, and would like to keep that adjustability as I move into the Zcar for the track. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglist Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 - Front - Rear http://www.designproductsracing.com/Z_Suspension1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The DSP setup is the only one I'm aware of. I've got DSP brakes on my car and have been very pleased. Great people to do business with. jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Purple240zt Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Mike, would you mind expanding a bit on what you have found with setups like that as far as how they change the handling of the car? I have seen lots of adjustable ends for S14s but never really knew why I should have them. Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The Design Products 5/8" adjustable rear anti-roll bar is typically what the Vintage guys run. I've also run that setup on my old race car. For the front I just swapped back-and-forth from a 1" to a 15/16" anti-roll bar instead of making an adjustable bar. Using wheel spacers in front of different widths (1/4" through 3/4") and the two anti-roll bar sizes above gave me all the anti-roll/load transfer adjustment I needed for the front of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 At the risk of drawing negative attention from those who hate the mention of my "other" car, what I noticed with it was I could dial out understeer by doing a couple of things... Adjusting the front softer, and stiffening the rear (my other car responded well to this, but it is AWD) would dial out a lot of push that the rear engine configuration caused. I have a ton of adjustment in the Zcar's suspension, but I also do in the other car. So I'd like to be able to adjust the swaybars front and rear to make the adjustments needed for under/over steer correction. Simply adjusting softer in the front or stiffer in the rear made a HUGE difference on the other car, and it is pushing 540AWhp at about 3360#. I realize the Zcar suspension will react differently to a front engine, rear drive 2300# platform. I already have the rear bar, but wasn't sure a 5/8th bar would be sufficient! Guess it is! Mike Mike, would you mind expanding a bit on what you have found with setups like that as far as how they change the handling of the car? I have seen lots of adjustable ends for S14s but never really knew why I should have them. Evan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I went the DIY-adjustable route (with a lot of help from EMWHYR0HEN) http://forums.hybridz.org/showpost.php?p=977473&postcount=8 Yet to drive it and see if the plate/rod ends will hold up. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 See that DP front ARB is hollow which will save quite a bit of weight over a solid one. Wonder what thickness in a solid it is equivalent to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglist Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I went the DIY-adjustable route (with a lot of help from EMWHYR0HEN) http://forums.hybridz.org/showpost.php?p=977473&postcount=8 Yet to drive it and see if the plate/rod ends will hold up. Dave What size rod ends did you end up using? Have you driven with it yet? Does it bind or rub anywhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Sorry, that link is pretty crap.. Meant to do this one: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=977473&postcount=8 The rod ends are: DNTF-6 and DNTM-6 Metric 6mm, teflon race, narrow housing, USD3.48 from mid west control. I've tried to check for binding as much as I can. There is no bind at full droop, but it about maxes out the misalignment in the rod ends. At static its much better. If the 6mm rod ends + bolts don't hold up I'll just drill the holes out and use 8mm ones I guess. I probably shouldn't've drilled so many holes so close together if I was going to make them bigger, but oh well, live and learn. Haven't driven it yet, waiting on control arms for the rear. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmiller100 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 it sounds tacky, but I've actually tuned the rear by loosening the end links. 2 full turns on each end link makes a notable difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglist Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 it sounds tacky, but I've actually tuned the rear by loosening the end links. 2 full turns on each end link makes a notable difference. I used to do that on my Integra GSR back in the day. I had Integra Type R sway bars and urethane endlink bushings but they weren't adjustable so I did that "trick". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Loosening anti-roll bar end links delays when the anti-roll bar starts working and allows more initial and overall roll. It can also create asymmetry into anti-roll reaction. Other options are coil springs on the end links that soften the initial anti-roll bar rate, blade type anti-roll bar ends, and using a combination of rubber and polyurethane end link bushings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIM73240Z Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I know where i can get the front asb's that are blanks. Just drill the holes. However, I saw a 240 at a race last year with cockpit adjustable asb's. I did not have a chance to get pics or grill the guy on how he set them up. My question is how to get that to work. I have seen the levers at pegasus and others but have not found how it works. Does any one have pics or can explain how the cockpit adjustable ones work? Just curious. Its not like I do not have anything else to do on the car. Jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Usually one of the bar arms is left round and a keyway is machined into it. Then a sleeve is made that slips over the bar arm with a key that keeps it from spinning on the bar. That sleeve has two tabs or clevis' welded to it, one to attach to the end link and the other to the cable end of the adjuster levers in the cockpit. The adjuster cable sleeve is attached to the bar end via another welded on tab. Moving the adjuster in the cockpit slides the sleeve fore and aft on the bar arm changing the lever arm ratio on the bar itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Usually one of the bar arms is left round and a keyway is machined into it. Then a sleeve is made that slips over the bar arm with a key that keeps it from spinning on the bar. That sleeve has two tabs or clevis' welded to it, one to attach to the end link and the other to the cable end of the adjuster levers in the cockpit. The adjuster cable sleeve is attached to the bar end via another welded on tab. Moving the adjuster in the cockpit slides the sleeve fore and aft on the bar arm changing the lever arm ratio on the bar itself Never seen that one before. Do you have a picture? I've only seen the blade style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIM73240Z Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Never seen that one before. Do you have a picture? I've only seen the blade style. The one that i saw was a blade and i did not get to see how it worked. Pics please. JImbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Carroll Smith has a couple drawings of the style I described above and I've seen them on a bunch of formula and vintage Datsun race cars. I don't have any pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 HPR has them on their site with pics (blade type) http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tpc=Genesis_Technologies_Cockpit_Adjustable_Sway_Bar_Kits&form_prod_id=217,212_1432&action=product. These are 1100 to 1500 per bar. I wasn't able to find a good pic of the type John mentioned but if you take a look at http://www.gurneyflap.com/Resources/BRABHAMBT28-2124.jpg you'll see a manual slider arrangement. The adjustable models hooked a cable to the slider to move it and used a pin in channel typically to keep it from rotating. An easier way to build your own is to use square arms (1.5x.5 tube) and put a roller bearing on top and bottom. This is held by a simple flat bracket on both sides with the cable adjuster actuating it. This can be done with simple cut and weld tools and makes a lighter piece overall. I first saw these on the IMSA GTU And as you can see if you have the setup really close only one side needs to be adjusted, not necessarily both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Luigi Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I apologize for not having pictures. I'm not real good at this computer stuff. my bar is a copy of the ITs bar we made. Starts out with a speedway engineering bar (http://www.1speedway.com) get the straight arms and bend them in a press with a couple of pieces of rollbar tubing as "rollers". If memory serves, bar needs to be 34" long. I used a 1 1/4" dia. the arms can be drilled for adjustment there. I have changed the bar to change rates but honestly I need more seat time to tell if the move was in the correct direction. As a plus the bar mounts in bearings or bushings. Take a look at the website. I'll quit rambling.... hope this is helpfull Mike, and nice car!! Lewis (Luigi) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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