Guest Anonymous Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 I thinking of getting a welder but I dont have any experience with this skill. I would like to weld and cut, as per the types of tasks that come up when rebuilding and restoring cars. Welding seems tough, and seems like you need training and skill. Any thoughts on how to start. What type to buy, other tools etc. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Mig (metal inert gas) wire welder.. continous duty cycle..variable wire speed control and heat control..120 volts..Hobart..Lincoln..Miller. For cutting get a Lincoln torch outfit. I seldom cut metal with a torch and rely on a Rigid metal citting bandsaw with a 64 1/2 inch blade .The band saw can be operated in the verical position . I fitted a small semi permanent work table that does not interfere with the blade the saw where I can free hand cut metal. I also use air grinders and cut off tools to cut metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest timhypo Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 I'm about to buy a Miller 130. It has continuously variable wire feed and voltage, which makes the learning curve alot less steep. The only other Welder that I've found with these features in this price range is the Lincoln SP135 Plus. The Lincoln goes for about $650, whereas the Miller's $550, so all else being basically equal, I'll buy the Miller. I bought a Haynes book on welding from Harbor Freight and plan to teach myself. Basically, once you have the means to cut metal (bought air compressor and assortment of air tools today) and the means to reattach it (gonna buy welder), all you need to do is go to the metal yard, buy a bunch of scraps, start cutting and attaching until you're happy with your work. The nice thing about having the book is that I can use their drawings to compare to my welds that I cut apart to make sure they'll be as strong as they are beautiful. BTW - my assumption is that you want a welder that runs on 110V, not 220V. If you want 220V, my research is prolly wasted. Also, acetalyne setups are pretty cheap for cutting, but the welds they make aren't that great and take ALOT of work to perfect. I bought a used acetelyne setup at the Flea Market yesterday for $25 on an asking price of $50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Millermatic 251 is sweet $$$$ It does just about everything for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Just bought a Lincoln Invertec V205-T TIG and a Pro-Cut 55 Plasma cutter. Already have a Miller 135 MIG. Somehow I need to convince the wife that she needs to park her Miata in the driveway from now on. BTW... if all you're using a gas torch for is cutting, then use a Propane bottle, cutting torch and tip with your Oxygen bottle. It cuts as well as Acy and is cheaper and much safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 John, you suck (J/K!) Damn! My wife would NEVER go for that. But you live in Southern CA, so it's never very cold or snowy there . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted October 21, 2002 Share Posted October 21, 2002 Not sure why people are recommending 110V units over 220V units. 220 is far superior to 110 volts for practically any power tool. For any given load they draw less than half the line current. Lower line current means less internal heating. As a result 220 volt welders generally have a higher max welding amperage and won't dim your lights as badly. Having said all that, if all you have is 110V then that is what you need to buy. Also the 110V units tend to be cheaper, but only because they tend to be less capable. For sheet metal and most light welding a 110V unit will be fine. But I will bet you a dollar JohnC's Tig and plasma cutter are not 110v And as said over and over on this site, be sure to get a unit with sheilding gas. Flux core wire smokes like hell and typically produces welds that aren't as pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest timhypo Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 I'm not recommending it, every last bit of my house runs on 110V, including my dryer and we have gas heat. Since it's a rental, that's the reality of it for me. I'd run 220V welder and compressor in a second if I could... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Actually, the Invertec 205 can go 110 or 230 with an automatic internal switch. On 110 volts you get the following duty cycles (AC or DC): 150Amps, 40% duty cycle, 34.0 amp draw. 120Amps, 60% duty cycle, 24.5 amp draw. 100Amps, 100% duty cycle, 18.9 amp draw. At 230 volts you get the following (AC or DC): 200Amps, 40% duty cycle, 28.8 amp draw. 170Amps, 60% duty cycle, 17.8 amp draw. 140Amps, 100% duty cycle, 14.2 amp draw. And the whole unit weighs 33lbs and comes with a carrying strap. The Plasma cutter is a 230 volt machine with a 50% duty cycle at its max 55 amps and drawing 30 amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Great info gentlemen, muchas gracias Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Jim, I agree on a power efficiency basis, 220V is better. But don't most 110V welders do better with thin sheetmetal because the amperage can be turned down lower than the larger 220V models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagz Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 I bought a Miller 130, Argon/CO2 mix tank, a couple of welding books, a bunch of scrap metal of various gauges and just started practicing. Weld something up, then cut across the weld to see how well you are penetrating. Practice, practice, practice. It's really not as tough to learn as you might think. A welding class is a good idea if you have the time and access to a local community college. I just tought myself. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 In my research, the minimum amperage was about the same on the 110v or 220v welders. I just sold my 145 amp Century 230v welder. It was a fine buy about 5 years ago at Sam's for $450. It had infinitely adjustable heat and wire speed. I found it just wasn't big enough for some of my non-auto projects. I just replaced it with the Century 250 which has a 100% duty cycle at 160 amps, 60% at 225 amps. It also has stitch and spot timers and will weld as small as 26ga and up to 1/2" in a single pass. Welder quality/features are definitely proportional to price. As well as weight. The local welding store told me horror stories on getting parts for Century, but one phone call and a credit card # and I could get virtually anything in a couple of days. I think he was just dogging them since he didn't sell them. Once you get your welder (and I highly recommend the metal cutting bandsaw that Tomahawk Z has. I have the Harbor Freight version,~$150, and will probably never use my abrasive chop saw again...) get yourself a project to practice. A hot wate heater smoker is a good place to start. I built a 24" x 84" smoker on a trailer. You CAN'T be a good redneck without a BBQ on wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Ok i have a few questions, i have read a book on welding, and i plan to get a welder this winter so i can practice for a while before i get my Z. What are all the materials that I will need to get in order to be able to use this welder with prices. Including the bandsaw. keep in mind that I am a student, and i dont need the absolute best, and am on a budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Figure $700 to get a wire feed welder to use gas, it should come with a helmet. The more you spend up front, the happier you will be long term IMO. Add $100 for a small gas bottle will get you started. $50 at Harbor Freight will get you some gloves, MIG welder pliers, vise-grip style locking pliers, magnetic angle jigs, magnetic ground clamp, and a set of butt-weld clamps. Harbor Freight has the band saw on sale for $150 ever so often, or $180 regular price. Buy some good blades like Starret, about $15 each. That's about $1000. IME, you will also want a GOOD 4 1/2" grinder ~$100 and if you are welding more heavy duty stuff probably a 7" grinder as well ~$150. Beyond that, $100 worth of steel will at least get you a few different sizes to play with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 My Lincoln 120SP Mig cost $570 and did NOT include anything but the unit and some wire, as well as the owners manual. I had to provide the bottle, shield, gloves, and extras. I figure I had about $750 in it. I recommend you shop some of the online welding supply companies. You might find some real nice bargains! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Earlier this year I was able to get two Hobart Handler 135 units from weiler welding online for $400 each shipped. One was for my uncle. They were really good people to deal with. Prices have probably went up since then. Weiler Welding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest timhypo Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Whoa, I'm planning to buy my Miller from them, they're like 20 minutes from my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 thanks alot for the info guys, looks like this is an investment that im gonna have to save for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 If you want to weld and cut, you can get a cutting torch. I have a gasless MIG which can be converted to true MIG later, but will probably go TIG once I have the need, or just a cutting torch. This was a cheapie $300 unit just to get started and do odd jobs which didn't require a more expensive TIG. If you want to weld on stainless you really should get a TIG, if you want super clean welds TIG, MIG is good for cheapie stuff like exaust though, TIG is just easier to work with and less "mess". You also have to find a place to fill your tanks, some places will not fill YOUR tanks only ones that they lease out. This means you could be suckered into a contract if you can't find a place that will fill your own stuff, they will tell you that they dont "trust" your tanks and what if they blow up etc Tanks also carry a certification which I think is good for 2 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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