JMortensen Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I've been watching some rally on HDNet, missed probably 5 years when they stopped playing it on Speed. Anyway I don't know if this is new or I just wasn't realizing what I was looking at 5 years ago, but they have some pretty inventive ways to get the air through the radiator and then back outside the car, and I thought I'd share some pictures. Skoda has a blueovalz, 74_5.0L_Z type duct up and out the top. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Saxony_rally_racing_Skoda_Fabia_WRC_01_service_(aka).jpg I've been having a hard time finding a good still picture of the Ford or Peugeot, but they have something that looks like the bell from a tuba or a funky subwoofer enclosure that fits over the electric fans and then the small end goes to a relatively small duct out towards the side of the hood. I didn't watch the whole video here, but check 8:15 for an example. There's a couple 510s and a 6 or 710 at the end... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjNT379LH8Q I think what I'm getting out of this is that the exhaust ducts don't have to be so big and straight. Gives me some ideas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 They have been venting rads over the hood for a long time. I thought about how to do it in a Z but you would need a pretty tight shroud that split into a Y and went around the L motor and up. It would be easier with an LS swap. Here it is on a 350Z ...and a vette I love the fender vents on the vette!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 I was more interested in the Ford/Peugeot setup. My thought for my own car is to make ducts that direct the air to the fenderwells in front of the struts. I'll have plenty of room with an LS swap, and with the airdam I'm planning I should have a nice low pressure area in the wheelwell to suck the air out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 With that arrangement Jon vents in the guards/fenders behind the wheels would also help, with the S30 air tends to get trapped in that region. The only negative I can think of to venting from the engine bay as you propose is warm air around the brakes, may not be crucial though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Front wheel wells are a low pressure area and you can enhance that with fender top vents (as in the C5R pictured above) and dive places/wide front spoiler sides (as in the C5R and the 350Z pictures above). Once you turn that area into a very low pressure area then it can be used an exhaust location for the radiator or (more commonly) for front diffusers. You only need so much flow through the radiator at speed. A wild ass guess on my part would be that two 8" ducts, one to each front wheel well would be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 With that arrangement Jon vents in the guards/fenders behind the wheels would also help, with the S30 air tends to get trapped in that region. The only negative I can think of to venting from the engine bay as you propose is warm air around the brakes, may not be crucial though. Yeah, I've got some ideas there. The problem is I may have to make two front ends. One the way I want, the other for XP as I don't think they allow what I'd like to do. Basically I want to fold the front part of the fender in behind the wheel like a Spec Racer Ford. http://lh3.ggpht.com/garysheehan.com/RbRfiMdG2UI/AAAAAAAAAHk/3gfEkyWd4VU/SRF1.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Basically I want to fold the front part of the fender in behind the wheel like a Spec Racer Ford. I think you can do a vent behind the front wheels which can accomplish the same thing if you make a nice fender liner. Just box against the battery tray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I have wondered how much air to the wing you would lose if vented out the sides instead of over the top? Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 I have wondered how much air to the wing you would lose if vented out the sides instead of over the top? I suppose you'd have to have a wind tunnel test or cfd #'s to figure that out directly. It would also be interesting to see if you got more frontal downforce from one method or the other. I tend to think that the side exit might be better because on most cfd drawings the low pressure at the wheel well is quite pronounced. Regardless, if you don't have hood vents, the air from the radiator isn't getting to the wing anyway, in an otherwise stock configuration. It's probably going out from underneath the car mostly. It seems like with most production car racers, the trick is to get as much downforce as you can in the front, then just put a wing on that has enough capability to match in the back. I think that's a generally reasonable strategy until you start getting into tunnels and diffusers, at which point you are generally getting out of production based cars and more into full on race chassis, perhaps with a shell of a production car on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I have wondered how much air to the wing you would lose if vented out the sides instead of over the top? None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I was more interested in the Ford/Peugeot setup. My thought for my own car is to make ducts that direct the air to the fenderwells in front of the struts. I'll have plenty of room with an LS swap, and with the airdam I'm planning I should have a nice low pressure area in the wheelwell to suck the air out. Some more cars to check for inspiration are the Argentinian touring cars. Search for TC2000 for some pics. The YPF Ford has a very advanced radiator ducting system that Claude Roulle talked about in his seminar. It was good for 25% reduction in drag and 30% more downforce. The Ford radiator setup is also featured on the WRC.com site in a video with the cars designer. There's also a really cool discovery video that features the prodrive cars and shows them being built. And this was the season they had major issues with water splashes so they feature the ducting and what was done to fix it. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 I spent an hour or so looking, found the cars, but didn't find anything (pictures or written) about the radiator ducting. Also unable to locate the wrc.com movie you mentioned, although I tried searching by the designer's name Christian Loriaux. Any help there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 World Rally Championship cars are extremely difficult to find pictures of for some reason.. at least in English. The Abu Dhabi WRC Ford Focus has a really neat radiator ducting setup that I've only had a chance to look at during the 3 day rally events broadcast by EuroSport.. and now HD theater. Jon have you recorded any of the WRC events that HD theater is now hosting?! Notice where the exhaust vents are on the hood! outside rear corners of the hood!! hmmm I know its tiny http://www.rallypoland.com D. Kalamus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 World Rally Championship cars are extremely difficult to find pictures of for some reason.. at least in English. The Abu Dhabi WRC Ford Focus has a really neat radiator ducting setup that I've only had a chance to look at during the 3 day rally events broadcast by EuroSport.. and now HD theater. Jon have you recorded any of the WRC events that HD theater is now hosting?! I found them on HD theater about 4 races ago, and I've been DVR'ing them, but deleting after I watch them. The Focus WRC cars are the ones that prompted me to start this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkumaNoZeta Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 The ducting coming out of the sides is just so it's easier to route isn't it? To me it looks like it only there because it's not obstructed by the engine that way (that's what the OP said isn't it?) From what I've learned off this forum it only takes an opening with the area of 1/4 of the heat exchanger's surface to keep it working efficiently (at speed, 1/3 for a car that sits in traffic) and that the exit opening needs to be about 3 times as big as the opening (I hope i have that right.) In my head it seems that it would be easier to get the 3 times larger opening (if you have a blocked off grill) by doing it because you can put some long, wide vents in the sides of the hood and since the L-series is so narrow making the ducting shouldn't be THAT hard...Thats all in theory of a 20 year old mind working off of absolutely no sleep. On a side note, I love looking at rally cars. I don't know why but to me they just look brutal. F1 and cars like that Corvette posted above are more...finesse looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube80z Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I spent an hour or so looking, found the cars, but didn't find anything (pictures or written) about the radiator ducting. Also unable to locate the wrc.com movie you mentioned, although I tried searching by the designer's name Christian Loriaux. Any help there? Try this http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=300&featureid=1020&desc=Features:%20Aerodynamics. I think this has the movies but my browser refuses to play them for some reason. And the full text article and links here: http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=221&featureid=1418&desc=WRC%20explained:%20Aerodynamics Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Got it. Video link works for me. Not terribly technical, but good to get a little deeper explanation anyway. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stprasinz Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I did a pretty simple set up on my 87 300zx.... similar to an evo just single, and no meshing... it actually made it feel "nibbley" or "jittery" in a good way, like tighter to the ground.... i think there was an inprovement, but i did a huge power upgrade... like ported polished heads, bigger turbo, meth injection.. liquid intercooler, and other stuff... but the handling was also noticable, so I like to think there must have been an improvement in areo, leading to increased acceleration and the handling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkumaNoZeta Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I did a pretty simple set up on my 87 300zx.... similar to an evo just single, and no meshing... it actually made it feel "nibbley" or "jittery" in a good way, like tighter to the ground.... i think there was an inprovement, but i did a huge power upgrade... like ported polished heads, bigger turbo, meth injection.. liquid intercooler, and other stuff... but the handling was also noticable, so I like to think there must have been an improvement in areo, leading to increased acceleration and the handling... Do you have pictures? It sounds interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stprasinz Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 ok, I don't have alot of pics in my comp, but from that vent, its ducted in a box of 22 gauge directy to the radiator. again not a good angle as you see its metal, and that hole got covered in metal and thats what it started as, some places only have about 1/4" clearance from the pathfinder intake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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