ModernS30 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Hey guys, I have noticed when many new members come in we are not welcoming enough. Many new members need some guidance. Some may not get the idea, but instead of being so cocky the first time a person posts something we should be more guiding. I think many of us have lost sight of why we are here. This is about being car people, specifically z people here. Many of us are just car people in general that own or have owned a z. All of us are on a different level. Some may need more guidance and help than others. I feel that we push people away more than we should. Instead of just telling somebody how stupid they are, or making some smart ass comment we can most definitely be more helpful. Obviously the internet is serious business and needs to be treated as such. I mean, I am wondering if maybe some of us need to lighten up a bit. Seriously though. I don't know if I am the only one who notices this or not. I think it is actually hurting the site, we may push away valuable members. Either way, if a member is here learning, if they are supporting the site, if they are contributing valuable information, every member is here with one general purpose. Just some things to think about. Kinser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Hey guys, I have noticed when many new members come in we are not welcoming enough. Many new members need some guidance. Some may not get the idea, but instead of being so cocky the first time a person posts something we should be more guiding. I think many of us have lost sight of why we are here. This is about being car people, specifically z people here. Many of us are just car people in general that own or have owned a z. All of us are on a different level. Some may need more guidance and help than others. I feel that we push people away more than we should. Instead of just telling somebody how stupid they are, or making some smart ass comment we can most definitely be more helpful. Obviously the internet is serious business and needs to be treated as such. I mean, I am wondering if maybe some of us need to lighten up a bit. Seriously though. I don't know if I am the only one who notices this or not. I think it is actually hurting the site, we may push away valuable members. Either way, if a member is here learning, if they are supporting the site, if they are contributing valuable information, every member is here with one general purpose. Just some things to think about. Kinser The issue I have been seeing with newcomers over the past year or so, has been the lack of effort on their part to find the answer before asking. Although this issue has been getting smaller recently it still happens. Let me break this down barney style... Say you are lost in a crowded subway and need help finding the bathroom. Scenario #1: you walk into the middle of a crowded place and yell "I need to find a bathroom" You will get a lot of looks, but people will just ignore you all together, be sarcastic, be a smart ass..etc Scenario #2: you walk into the middle of a crowded place, find someone and ask gently "Excuse me, I have been looking all over and I can't find the restroom, can you point me in the right direction?" now generally courtesy shown firstly will be rewarded with courtesy shown back. Anyone catching my drift? You wouldn't walk up to the pope asking him a question on the bible unprofessionally and expect a professional answer, would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernS30 Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 The issue I have been seeing with newcomers over the past year or so, has been the lack of effort on their part to find the answer before asking. Although this issue has been getting smaller recently it still happens. Let me break this down barney style... Say you are lost in a crowded subway and need help finding the bathroom. Scenario #1: you walk into the middle of a crowded place and yell "I need to find a bathroom" You will get a lot of looks, but people will just ignore you all together, be sarcastic, be a smart ass..etc Scenario #2: you walk into the middle of a crowded place, find someone and ask gently "Excuse me, I have been looking all over and I can't find the restroom, can you point me in the right direction?" now generally courtesy shown firstly will be rewarded with courtesy shown back. Anyone catching my drift? You wouldn't walk up to the pope asking him a question on the bible unprofessionally and expect a professional answer, would you? While you have a valid point I think a large issue is the fact that many of the new comers are young. Maybe I am incorrect, but typically the lack of spelling and proper grammar is coming from a younger generation. I understand your point but I think we need to guide them better in the form. I do see the difficulties in doing this. Maybe not all of them. All I am trying to get at is, we can't just say. Well, you didn't even bother to search, your stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I don't know where "cocky" is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to go there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z2go Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Hoov made a good illustration. A lot of newcomers are guilty of not following the rules of the forum, and that extra, unnecessary traffic on the site tends to clog the search function for the rest of us. That clogging is the reason most people have the reaction they do. As the mods will tell you, this site is intended as a resource for performance and design/function enhancing modifications, and all things related, not beginner troubleshooting, advice and fact-finding. Take the brakes and suspension sub-forum. With all of the modifications and technical discussions that go on in there, what do you think people feel when someone comes on the scene, and their first post to the forum (after having joined 30 minutes earlier) is titled "Springs", and in the body of the message they ask, "what kind of springs can I use on my 280z?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19762802+2 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) Obviously the internet is serious business and needs to be treated as such. Some of the members can be smart asses at times but if you get an ignorant person or group of people coming to a site and not trying their very best to follow the rules after some time seeing it over and over gets a little old. There are threads where they have been helped out but usually they get shedded because the person didn't follow the rules such as correct grammar etc etc so some people don't usually bother. Most of the time if someone doesn't get their answer they will either 1. Ask again, hoping for a response or 2. Search while they are waiting for an answer and figure it out themselves. Edited October 18, 2010 by 19752802+2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) This is how it started at ZCar.com as well. "Tolerance, understanding, and slackening of standards of excellence to dumb it down for the LCD." There was a time being a kid meant being humble. Being appreciative for any answer given. Asking in a respectful way. If I asked the way some noobs asked, even in High School Shop Class, I would have had a Lugnut or Sparkplug thrown at me by the instructor and a stern Tuteonic Scolding about THINKING before asking such a question. I guess it's all kinder and gentler now. Raise their self esteem, right? Give them a star for asking the question. If someone is never told "NO" in firm tones, they will NEVER learn a societies rules. HybridZ is a society. In this society there are rules. This isn't 'Nam. Sorry John, I just couldn't resist the direction my own digression was headed... <EDIT: Yes, we did get scalp wounds, Rudy had a good eye with those damn nuts and plugs. (We all thought it was strange why he insisted we all wear our safety glasses as we crossed the threshold into the shop area. The first time the lugnut flew, we knew instinctively this was business and WEAR THOSE SAFETY GLASSES!) Those who went to the Principal and complained were met with "The Greasy Grey Line" response: he slipped and put a spanner in his noggin, he wasn't watching what he was doing and knocked his head on a rocker panel while the car was on the lift... In two cases the teacher had the students expelled from the class (getting thrown out of AUTO SHOP---imagine that! Where all the other misfits and smokers congregated...) when they complained. His justification was given to the principal loudly: They are too dangerous to work around machinery, I can't be responsible to baby sit them, they are supposed to be learning a trade! They are incapable, I don't want them in my class. (Imagine some teacher holding to a standard like that today!) Where did they go? Home Economics and Business Machines (the only two other classes in that block of hours!) So even in the 70's kids were being 'banned' by mean "old" teachers who, now 40 years on I am damn glad to say I'm HAPPY they held the line on excellence and did not let me succumb to the easy answer, the quick fix, or the short road test. It makes you better. If you are not up to it, consider another hobby. I hear business machine repair and cooking potroasts and cakes is particularly rewarding. In one of the two cases, the kid begged to be let back into class after a week in cooking class. The business machines teacher was an Ex Marine from a pacific campaigns, and NOBODY messed with him. But it was the baking and being seen with all the girls the one guy couldn't stand. He stopped asking stupid questions, started THINKING, and actually made the grade at the end of the year despite getting a '0' for every day he missed in Baking Class. Proving to me that it IS A LEARNED BEHAVIOUR! They can change it if they choose. But if you coddle them at first, then pushing the limits becomes the normal mode of operation. STay firm from the beginning, and people who WANT to change will. Those who won't can fail business machines AND home economics and as a result go to adult ed the year after they graduate to get their diploma....> Edited October 18, 2010 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stprasinz Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 +i have to agree, i see time and time again, people coming here and asking for guidance, and getting bashed away...i think a general message in a specified forum that is what they are looking for is the right thing to do. if you have a problem with your taxes, do you directly go to the irs and ask specific people for help? we can be nicer, and more directing, give good advice, and let them know how thingsd work be constructive, not tear down any hope they had of this being a helpful site!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckolander Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I honestly don't think that our standards should be lowered in any way due to the ignorance of the new members. If they would like to learn then they can stick around, if not we can guide them over to zcar. I know that I have said some stupid stuff here, but usually in threads that were designed for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazeum Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 I kind of agree with Kinser. I've never been bashed for asking questions but I felt bad asking question at some points because I feared the answer: Search! There's a lot of info that get lost or hard to find over time. I do understand it is coming from dumb topics from beginners (who hasn't been one at one point?) Afterwards, topics such as "what kind of springs?" "How to increase power?" show obviously the lack of research and should be avoided to keep the quality of the board but there're many ways to mean it. When it is your 1st post and you don't know the board, you can be discouraged and move along. Some will tell me: "good, the member was not into it enough if he left", I would believe it is sad because Z are great cars with very knowledgable community and he will never know it! It happens on the FR board no later than last week. A young owner came, first ever post was "where to buy 260z exhaust?" (and only this). The answer was "you suck, say Hi first and search!". Bottom line, he kept the car not even 1 month prior selling it because he believes Z community suck (1 rough answer from 1 member who's usually friendly). It think it is bad; next action on his side will be to spread the news about how bad are Z owners... and some people will believe it with reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daphur280 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) If I may add, another stitch in this seam that I have been noticing is we'll also get new members who "appear" to have avoided the search feature, and I say "appear" based on the content or validity of their question(s), and they seem to ask a question for example: A new member recently posted a question about coil-over components or what’s available I believe, and furthermore made it significantly clear within his/her question that they were not experienced with coil-over and/or suspension tech, as one may expect he/she was bombarded with Z veterans directing to use the search, and in his/her defense the new member responded with that they possessed a number of years of experience with welding and modification and knew what he/she was talking about. Posting threads inquiring about something that may be found using the search "correctly" I might add, then posting credentials to suggest that a member may know what they are talking about after being directed negatively about their inquiry is becoming all too common on HybridZ IMO. There are many who are experienced as well as many who are not. The ones who are, can typically identify those who are not with an adequate amount of inquiry from those asking about something that could be found in searching HyrbidZ. So, yes we are becoming a bit bitter about our responses, but in our defense, there are incidents where such responses are deemed justifiable to an extent. Perhaps we need to better facilitate where and how such inquiries from new members generate. Not so much as to begin restricting members' freedoms, but somehow monitor that which is needlessly posted. Edited October 18, 2010 by Daphur280 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 IMHO, HybridZ is an advanced automotive forum. We're not Cars 101 and we're not a social networking site. A new member must come here with a good understanding of automobiles and mechanics which he/she can get from any number of other sites. If they don't have that base, then they should NOT post and just read, read, read. We have a New Member forum where people can introduce themselves and get a welcome of some kind. After that, you better start paying attention and thinking before you post. I don't care if we have 500 or 5,000 members. If someone gets their feelings hurt or doesn't feel welcome, tough luck. Life ain't fair and you need to toughen up to be able to deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) Put up a designated section titled " All Newbie Questions HERE ". This way, new comers have a place to start at, and make it a no bashing zone... Edit: Never mind.... there is a section Edited October 18, 2010 by J. Soileau RB26zcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjstcroix Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Hi, I agree with what John said. This is an advanced forum. I can't call myself an expert in anything but always respect the time effort and consideration others have put into this site. I compose my posts and threads with this in mind. In the realtively short time I've been a registered user of this site, (<2yrs) I found the high degree of moderation on this forum keeps out the non-sense. Straight facts, healthy discussion on new ideas, developments and projects keeps me coming back to this site and the main reason I only support Hybrid Z. Regards, RSC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Let me ask anybody justifying being intimidated about posting on an anonomyous internet chat site... If you feel 'intimidated' asking an anonomyous question over the internet (and remembering that you said "we were all beginners once") how does that compare to US, the 'old guys' who actually had to go face-to-face to some greasy mean looking old SOB that looked like a serial killer to ask the very same question you are intimidated about TYPING ANONOMOUSLY to a group which has no physical connection to you nor can see you or harm you in any way? I mean for GOD'S SAKE MAN! GROW A SAC! If the internet was available for information gathering when I was a kid, I'd have mutated into a self-levitating brain sac of knowledge by this time! There IS NO INTIMIDATION to ask the question (and maybe there SHOULD BE!) The point I was making earlier was that the behaviour of THINKING BEFORE POSTING is LEARNED and something someone chooses to do or not to do. The RULES of the site say to THINK FIRST BEFORE POSTING. (Generally paraphrasing...) It's common courtesy. If you are 'intimidated' by posting here, how in gods name would you have survived technical training or the information transfer process before 1985? Really, this place is EASY to get knowledge from if you care to read. Just reading the stickies will give you what it took some people 20+ years to learn. All free, without EVER having to ask a SINGLE question. But what it does entail is EFFORT on the part of the noob. Nothing good ever comes without effort. If you are unwilling to expend the effort, then why should anybody expend the effort towards you? Ever hear the phrase 'in one ear and out the other'? If you don't work for it, that is likely the reaction to any answer someone spoons to a noob. And before someone says 'Elitist Site' in some pejorative context, remember that it's the vanguard, the elite that blaze the trail so the cows have a place to graze. Without the doers, the hangers on a hoi poloi don't have anything to glam on to and survive off! Seriously, the place has rules, and if you have watched ANYTHING that has happened in the past three years at ZCar.com you will see EXACTLY what happens when putting someone's "right to voice an opinion, even if it's wrong (this place is for entertainment value, man!)" attitude gets you! It's happened to one site already in the Z World, I don't personally want to ever witness it here. Like John C said, this place is NOT 'Automotive 101' if you want basic answers, look elsewhere. If you want TECHNICAL INFORMATION THAT ISN'T BS AND BLUSTER come here and ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSM Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 ^^^^^ It's post like this why I love to hear what you have to say, keep it up Tony! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue72 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) I don't remember my beginnings here at HybridZ as being traumatic. Apprehensive? Perhaps the first time I asked a question, but I had read the rules and been feeling out how this particular forum operated for a few months before then. By the way, I did search before posting and couldn't find anything, but someone did answer my question satisfactorily. Since joining this site three years ago I have felt compelled to post a topic which asked a technical question precisely two times. That's it. I have yet to run into any other situation in which there was not enough information available or links to where more information could be obtained. My best guess as to why some beginners encounter difficulties? They either A: Don't read the rules, or B: Don't think the rules will seriously be enforced. Every forum has rules that must be agreed to. Any software that is installed or online service which is signed up for has a pop-up page stating rules, guidelines, limitations, etc... Most internet dwellers have trained themselves to automatically click "Accept" without so much as a cursory glance at these binding text fields. As a side note, I will now have the song "In One Ear And Out The Other" by Fujiya & Miyagi in my head for the rest of the day thanks to TonyD. Edited October 18, 2010 by blue72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin.pk Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) I agree with Tony D's posts. A little intimidation is good. p.s. I now read every Tony D post with Walter's voice in my head. p.p.s. I don't know where "cocky" is, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to go there... LMAO Edited October 18, 2010 by 280zcar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jas280z Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) I'd rather have a less friendly (to people who neglect the rules) atmosphere here, than the inmates running the asylum over at that "other site." I always try to do as much research as possible, both here and there (the archives over there can still be helpful). When I ask a question I always get an intelligent and well thought out response here, were as at the other site I get moronic posts from the same guy who just started a thread asking if his 1974 240zx was fuel injected. I'd rather have a helpful environment with a side of earned cockiness, than a free-for-all where the answers you get will most likely lead to your car blowing up. No points for guessing the other site. Edited October 18, 2010 by jas280z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrSideways Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 So many of the non-belt wearing crowd have had stuff handed to them their whole lives. Not one single kid in my neighborhood even mows their own grass, much less any others for spending money. They don't need spending money....they have Mommy's card. They don't know how to spell because it may hurt Johny's "feelings" to point out he misspelled something. Then they get to where there are real hard working adults are in the room and their "life training" wheels fall right off. Competition makes anything stronger. Without it things got to pot quickly. If you know more than the next guy it is a good thing. Being better is OK. We don't need Japanese company softball where they won't keep score. Taking away the need to try and gain knowledge on one's own seems to be a downfall of the internet. What would JohnC or TonyD have done if they had wandered into a shop before the internet and stood around all day asking which way to turn a nut to get it loose? Loose nut upside the head, that's what. If someone gets their feelings hurt maybe they should take Mommy's card and get some additional counseling. This whole thing reminds me of the original Z Club mailing list. Some young fellow was asking questions that would lead a normal experienced Z Car mechanic to realize he was fixing to make a mess of things. I pointed out that he would be better served to "call the man". I got reamed for even suggesting such a thing. That was the last of those emails for me. If you want to go swimming and don't know how, you might want to stick to the shallow end where the water is "warm". Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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