Forum etiquette, HBZ style.

[BRAAP]

I don't like people demanding 'respect'--- it's not a give-get relationship.

 

You don't come into someone's house and make demands on them. Regardless if you take off your shoes and don't fart in the living room!

 

Respect comes from interaction, and proving yourself to a group. I can think of some threads active now where people's prior posts are having a deliterious effect on their current posts. But it's because they continue to post in a similar fashion as their first attempts.

 

There is a learning curve. And nobody here should have to 'wait while you get up to speed'...

 

As has been stated, there are many here who started (myself included) who read the site pretty completely before even posting the first time. If MORE people would do that, the 'lighten up' attitude would not be necessary.

 

Most of the people I have met from this site are VERY laid back and helpful. Problem is they don't really have a lot of time in their personal lives to waste. And coming to a site, not reading and abiding by the rules, and posting repetitive questions which clearly could be answered by expending only a modicum of effort and READING A LITTLE BIT wastes their time.

 

So you come in the house and take off your shoes outside. You don't fart in the living room. But you cop a squat and take a dump on the new white carpet in the living room.

 

I may laugh, but I lay money someone who will have to CLEAN IT UP is going to be PRETTY PISSED OFF!

 

And that is what it comes down to: MEMBERS on this site may 'flame' a noob, but it's out of respect for the MODERATORS who will EVENTUALLY have to come and CLEAN THE NOOBS MESS UP!

 

WITHOUT the support of the BODY OF PARTICIPANTS, the uphold a culture of excellence and decorum, the moderators will have to continually delete posts, move posts, and generally WASTE A LOT OF THEIR TIME (time which, I personally, would rather they have to spend answering questions on discussion forums, for example...)

 

You can see the loss of a cohesive culture at another Z Site. The BODY just couldn't understand why people were so harda$$ed. And it got to a point Moderation didn't have a CHANCE IN HELL to rectify the situation.

 

Instead of thinking of YOURSELF, think of the MODERATORS and their job. SURE, to you and me that noob may be hilarious, and 'what's the harm' but SOMEONE WILL HAVE TO CLEAN IT UP afterwards to keep the site tidy and readable.

 

In the end, that is what it really comes down to! You and me, we can laugh about it. But they will have to clean it up. If I had to clean up someones dump on my clean white carpet, I might react a little heavy handedly from time to time to make and example that the rules need to be followed: "Don't wear your shoes inside, no farting in the living room, and no defacation outside the privy." It's not hard rules to live by, I guess it's just a little peanut and corn poop, let's just overlook it this one time, shall we? What about it guys, give the noob a break.

 

(The voice of Walter resonates within me...it speaks to me...it compels me...)

 

And this forums good people said...

 

AMEN!

 

[z2go]

I read the information provided from this site long before I joined. I joined once I actually purchased my 240Z. This forum is full of information if you just search and read. I see some of the "new" topics started and shake my head since I have read probably well over half the content on this forum. You can learn pretty much everything by simply searching and reading the different sub forums.

 

With that being said, I think it wouldn't hurt if people tried to be more helpful... Instead of saying, "search" and "this has been discussed blah blah amount of times" help guide them to a thread that discusses their question. If you took the time to respond negatively, you can take the time to respond helpfully.

 

To me, this sounds like a parent that is in denial about their demon child's behavior in school... I can see the scenario play out right now... little Billy bit a kid during recess, and the teacher reprimanded him with a swat to the butt. Little Billy, never having been reprimanded like that before, went home to cry to mommy. Well, she comes in to the school the next day, furious about the alleged child abuse situation. When the teacher told the mother what Billy did, the mother asked the teacher if she tried redirecting his aggression by distracting him with something else instead of physically scolding him. Long story short, Billy grows up biting kids until he becomes a permanent resident of the penal housing system.

 

The point is, if you help those who act in a way that is contradictory to the laws and rules set by a society by not showing them what they are doing is wrong, you are going to have repeat offenders, no matter what helpful, nurturing things you do.

[BRAAP]

To me, this sounds like a parent that is in denial about their demon child's behavior in school... I can see the scenario play out right now... little Billy bit a kid during recess, and the teacher reprimanded him with a swat to the butt. Little Billy, never having been reprimanded like that before, went home to cry to mommy. Well, she comes in to the school the next day, furious about the alleged child abuse situation. When the teacher told the mother what Billy did, the mother asked the teacher if she tried redirecting his aggression by distracting him with something else instead of physically scolding him. Long story short, Billy grows up biting kids until he becomes a permanent resident of the penal housing system.

 

The point is, if you help those who act in a way that is contradictory to the laws and rules set by a society by not showing them what they are doing is wrong, you are going to have repeat offenders, no matter what helpful, nurturing things you do.

 

Put another way, your actions/reactions teach others how to treat you.

With that, a newb can either own his behavior/post/attitude, or cry burt hurt which in the real world of face to face interaction is generally not tolerated, same goes for this forum. Come to this forum behaving like child, they'll treated as such. Just because the age of digital communication is upon us does not mean it is acceptable to behave in a manner that we wouldn't normally behave, in face to face group sessions.

[mxgsfmdpx]

To me, this sounds like a parent that is in denial about their demon child's behavior in school... I can see the scenario play out right now... little Billy bit a kid during recess, and the teacher reprimanded him with a swat to the butt. Little Billy, never having been reprimanded like that before, went home to cry to mommy. Well, she comes in to the school the next day, furious about the alleged child abuse situation. When the teacher told the mother what Billy did, the mother asked the teacher if she tried redirecting his aggression by distracting him with something else instead of physically scolding him. Long story short, Billy grows up biting kids until he becomes a permanent resident of the penal housing system.

 

The point is, if you help those who act in a way that is contradictory to the laws and rules set by a society by not showing them what they are doing is wrong, you are going to have repeat offenders, no matter what helpful, nurturing things you do.

 

I agree 100% However, we are all Z enthusiasts here, and the point of these types of sites is to provide useful information (which this site has PLENTY of.)

 

If all you're doing is complaining about another idiot noob, and his stupid questions, how are you adding to or helping the community?

 

Either don't respond, or point them in the right direction with a link or information.

 

If you guys think this forum's noob content is bad you should go spend a day on my350z haha.

[ktm]

I agree 100% However, we are all Z enthusiasts here, and the point of these types of sites is to provide useful information (which this site has PLENTY of.)

 

If all you're doing is complaining about another idiot noob, and his stupid questions, how are you adding to or helping the community?

 

Either don't respond, or point them in the right direction with a link or information.

 

If you guys think this forum's noob content is bad you should go spend a day on my350z haha.

 

The point is that the newb should not be asking such a question in the first place here because his question has been answered already.

 

I was banned from My350z back when I had a Lemans Sunset 350z in 2003 for calling out an idiot. No name calling, no derogatory statements, but he was butt hurt, complained to the moderator and I was summarily banned.

[ModernS30]

I agree 100% However, we are all Z enthusiasts here, and the point of these types of sites is to provide useful information (which this site has PLENTY of.)

 

If all you're doing is complaining about another idiot noob, and his stupid questions, how are you adding to or helping the community?

 

Either don't respond, or point them in the right direction with a link or information.

 

If you guys think this forum's noob content is bad you should go spend a day on my350z haha.

 

First things first, I do want to thank every person who donates to the site and especially the Owner and Admins/Moderators. Without them, this site would not be here running how it does. I think since the new board switch the search hasn't worked as well. This isn't a big deal to me, its expected, things change, not everything can be perfect.

 

I think absolutely no links should be posted in a horrible noob thread. Unless, or course, the link is to the rules. I don't see a problem with that. I want to say this one more time, I am not condoning spoon feeding here.

 

I have great respect for all the members that give us their time to bring us knowledge. I cannot say I know what it is like to have somebody ask a question you have already answered that is readily available information. I have a feeling that is rather frustrating. There are obviously a many valid points for both sides of this discussion.

 

Tony, you make a very good point with the cleaning up the mess deal. I used to be one that if a new member posted a bad post, I would respond very negative. I came to the decision that no response at all is better than something negative. A smart a$$ comment isn't going to tell the new member he/she needs to spell something right, use proper grammar. It is just going to be offensive. I do not see a problem with saying "You need to re-read the rules that you agreed to follow. Until you can properly use basic skill of the English language then you won't get any information." Something along those lines. I hope you understand what I am getting at here?

[stravi757]

I think since the new board switch the search hasn't worked as well. This isn't a big deal to me, its expected, things change, not everything can be perfect.

 

 

Ya I feel the same way! I hate it lol. Ive actually given up using it completely and stick to just using google. Has anybody else found any better way of searching since the new board?

[ModernS30]

Ya I feel the same way! I hate it lol. Ive actually given up using it completely and stick to just using google. Has anybody else found any better way of searching since the new board?

 

Well, when I used to search, no matter if results were on the very first page when you searched or not. I would always go at least 10 pages deeper, sometimes many more. I have found that the longer you spend searching the more you will find. Whether you found something already or not. Many threads you find will link to other threads, that link to more. This site has more information than one person could read in a month. When I search, I open tabs, once I have to many. I go through each tap one by one. Open new tabs from links I find else ware in the already opened tabs. Continue till I get the tabs gone. Then I go back to the first search page and start opening tabs some more. If you are motivated to find it, you will find it.

 

That's quite a bit off topic though.

[Tony D]

"If you have the time to post something negative, you have the time to post something helpful."

 

And

 

" do not see a problem with saying "You need to re-read the rules that you agreed to follow. Until you can properly use basic skill of the English language then you won't get any information." Something along those lines. I hope you understand what I am getting at here? "

 

The problem is people DON'T GET IT! There will be people who, if responded to with the former selection will TAKE IT AS NEGATIVE.

 

I have said this for over 10 years at another site. People come to a site many times with a chip on their shoulder trying to prove something. Unless they get EXACTLY what they ask for, it's TAKEN as a NEGATIVE.

 

The total point here is that without NEGATIVE FEEDBACK a child (and they come in all ages) will NEVER SELF-CORRECT.

 

 

And longtime member will know a negative response is ALSO A TEST.

 

If the guy cops attitude, he's not here to learn he's here to make a stand, and make trouble.

 

We don't need it.

 

I can't count the times some old bastard looked at me and said 'get out of here, we're busy'...

 

AND I DID.

 

But I came back, many times to hear 'What the f* do you want, why do you keep coming around here, we work for a living---GET LOST KID!'

 

But on the THIRD DAY, Friday night around quitting time, those same guys were all sitting around having a beer. "Kid WTF do you want? Why do you keep coming around here."

 

Well sir, (sir! SIR!) I've got this problem with my Corvair, and I can't figure it out.

 

"Corvair, huh? WTF are you doing driving one of those old things?"

 

I like it, you don't see them any more. They're good in the snow. Everybody told me the only people who know anything about these cars any more work here, so I came to see if I could ask you to give me some ideas on where to look and solve my problem. I looked in the GM manual, but it doesn't really address this issue.

 

"What manual you got?"

 

The car is outside, it's in the back seat, let me get it.

 

(They follow to the door of the shop, and have a conversation while I'm getting the FSM)

 

I come back, and they see I'm using the GM 1966 Service Manual.

 

"Well, lets take a look--start it up and lets see what we find."

 

That was 5pm.

 

By 11:30 it was "shite, my wife is going to have my a$$ kid! Look, that should get you going do this this and this and if you still have problems come by again next week about closing time and we will see what we can do. Every third Saturday we are in here on our own time and doing side jobs...if you want come by then and we can get it up on the lift for a bit longer and take care of this other stuff here"

 

What do you think the response would have been on Friday if during the first two brush-offs I flipped them off, called them old a$$holes, and maybe kicked the garbage barrel over with you youthful petulance?

 

This is no different. There are tests to get into anything. If you think you are beyond it all, that you are somehow special and shouldn't undergo the same tests trials and tribulations that countless millions have already undergone...maybe you need to think less of yourself and respect the time and effort of OTHERS MORE!

 

 

And that is what it comes down to: show up here thinking you're OWED anything and you will have a rough time of it.

 

If you want a real good approximation of what that interaction was like (above) I suggest you rent the movie 'Christine'---the guy in the Junkyard "this place is for working stiff gotta keep their cars running to put bread on the table, any sh*t from you and you're out on your a$$!" I almost cried when that scene played because it could have been Herb. Yeah he had a rough as hell exterior, but it's the way he was, and if you just didn't give him sh*t, he opened up his whole world to you. Herb died some years ago and you would be amazed to know how many younger mechanics took their time off to drive across the state and come from out of state to attend his funeral. Sometimes all it takes is realizing you aren't the most important thing in the world, and you get some great results from people. Another example is the Clint Eastwood Character in 'Grand Torino'---plenty of those guys around when I was growing up. Kids today watch the movie and see 'racist old ass' but when you WATCH and SEE what the character is going through, what he's experiencing you realize appearances are deceiving. The turning point in Gran Torino was when Toad helped the old lady with her groceries, and that his parents (as it were) forced him to come apologize for what he had done.

 

Until the oldtimer sees that spark, that willingness to humble yourself and assists someone else, they didn't give a rats-ass about you. The thing about respect is it's not necessarily the guys you give it to that determine what responses you get. Many times it's the people you DON'T give it to when others are watching that puts the nails in your coffin!

Edited October 20, 2010 by Tony D

[ZR8ED]

Great story Tony! I have similar stories back when I was getting "in" with a group of hotrodders. My GM factory town didn't "cotton" to jap scrap, but it was the Buick GN guys who took me under their wing, as I had a "mean RWD Turbo V6" in my litle Datsun. Suddenly I became part of their group. I didn't need to say "fu" and do a burn out when they first told me to "get lost"! Made some good friends and connections to fabricators/shops. It just took a bit of time.

 

The reason I am adding another post to this thread, is regarding the search function of the site. I have mentioned this in the past, but when posting the start of a thread, OR when a thread really comes alive with good discussion and information, the thread should have some key words imbedded in it.

 

For example within a thread, it should read:

This thread is useful to fix "wheel vibrations, driveline vibrations, driveshaft vibrations, halfshaft vibrations, CV shaft vibrations"

 

When someone is searching using anyone one of those keywords, it will turn up this thread. Of course putting good searchable titles for the thread would be helpful as well to make searches more clear. We search using keywords, but we don't write posts using those keywords very well.

 

This thread is helpful for figuring out if Members are Rude, why members flame, Noob mistakes, Noobie mistakes, new members, Noob members.

 

Cheers!

[Tony D]

I didn't have the opportunity to address one other comment I read and it is important as it goes to the downfall of the other site I speak of, as it's a pervading and pernicious train of 'logic', and that is this statement:

 

"I came to the decision that no response at all is better than something negative. "

 

WRONG!

 

There is a corollary that goes with that train of thought: SILENCE IS ACCEPTANCE

 

 

If you don't post something, something negative, something coddling, something each and every single time someone misposts (whether it eventually goes to the shed or not) they will NOT get it. They will NOT understand they are doing something wrong.

 

There was a Russian couple who was trying to have a kid. They were unsuccessful. They went to a doctor, and with the aid of dolls were able to show him what they were doing as both tested perfectly fine

The female assumed the 'crayfish position' and the male would approach from behind. They were both college educated (Communist Era) professionals.

 

Long and short: "Wrong Hole"

 

And the doctor told them the obvious. They were shocked they were 'doing it wrong'---they had no idea.

 

THAT story illustrates very clearly that even the most BASIC ANIMAL INSTINCTS can go terribly awry in human beings and WE NEED GUIDANCE.

 

It is NOT better to 'just say nothing'---it is very detrimental to the site.

 

You don't need to pile on, after several guys have done the deed, THEN ignore the post. But some stuff needs to be addressed before it becomes a pattern.

 

"Wanna guess my horsepower?"

 

I watched the other site as countless people took the opinion 'why don't you lighten up man, if it bothers you just don't respond' and the Technical Forum went to sh*t in what seemed to be an overnight timeframe.

 

 

The worst thing good men can do when presented with evil is NOTHING!

Edited October 20, 2010 by Tony D

[JSM]

 

Long and short: "Wrong Hole"

 

 

Tony, this is the funniest thing I've heard all day! Absolutely hysterical!

[BLOZ UP]

When is the title of this thread going to be fixed? It irks me.

[BRAAP]

When is the title of this thread going to be fixed? It irks me.

 

 

Is that better?

[hoov100]

I wish I had this post back when I joined. \

 

Here are the rules for another forum I am on.

 

1. Pay attention to spelling and grammar. You look like an idiot when you spell wrong. Don't use text-speak either. You're not paying by the character.

 

2. If you ask for advice and we give it to you, take it. Don't tell people you're going to do it your way anyway. The collective knowledge and experience here is immeasurable.

 

3. Learn to resize pictures! MSPaint is already on your computer if you are using Windows.

 

4. If we flame you it's probably because of #2.

 

"(1) read before you post

(2) take what you get

(3) MAN UP!

(4)give what you can

(5) be willing to take some non lubed lovin once in a while intrade of all the tech,answers and and support the I.H board has to offer.

 

because that far outways the tender brown eye"

[BLOZ UP]

Is that better?

 

I was referring to the "to" in "Are we to cocky?", but that works too. Thanks!

Edited October 20, 2010 by BLOZ UP

[JMortensen]

It was "Are we getting to cocky." Now my joke makes no sense.

 

Really though, how many of these threads do we need to indulge? It's becoming like the "Where is Ross?" threads. Can we stick this one and close it and move on already?

[cygnusx1]

 Without moderation, the internet, or rather, forums, become as useful a form of communication as the inner walls of a public bathroom stall.  "If you sprinkle when you tinkle..." you get the idea. 

Edited October 20, 2010 by cygnusx1

[ckolander]

Those rules that Hoov posted are the greatest.

[waddiejohn]

I could not agree more with the thoughts of Tony D and John Coffee. I'm an old guy, 61 years and as such, I don't read Textise and will not waste my time trying to decifer any post where the first letter of a sentance is not capitolized, comas are not used or grammer is so poor that I can't figure out what is trying to be said after the first pass through a sentence.

I'm on here almost every day and once in a great while I see someone get on their high horse just to be able to come down on someone else, but it is rare. More typical is when it is obvious that the person has made no effort to find the answer on his own that people get a little abrupt. When I've had a question I've tried to put thought into the way it was stated and have always gotten direct and thoughtful answers from the more experienced members of Hybrid Z.

It is my opinion that if a person is really into his car and he wants to be a part of this community he will learn to behave appropriately and will reap the rewards. I say we should be appreciative of those who so willingly share their knowledge and leave this board as it is.

I'm just sorry that I have nothing to contribute to this board in either informative posts or money, but times have been tough for a couple of years and I haven't been able to play or spend much. This is a great place to hang out and I hope it remains so in the long term.

Waddie