sergio Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 i have a 1977 280z,and i have had the nissan dealership here in tucson az change the rear main seal (the seal do not leak any more) but the oil pan gasket since then has not stop leaking. Now they told me that the reason is that there was two oil pan support bracket missing wich i have now purshaced from one of the member,there are willing to redo the job and this time use the support for the pan but they are telling me that it is going to be better not to use a oil pan gasket this time and just use silicone.Should i agree on that and if one of the member as used silicone instead of the gasket what was the result.thank you for helping me Regards serge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I used the Nismo comp oil pan gasket that MSA sells, along with silicone. No leaks for past 6 months. If the dealership is telling you to do it though then you can always come back and tell them "hey it started leaking again, use a gasket and I'm not paying because you messed up not me" Just get it in a written statement that for the repair they only used silicone, no gasket so you have proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgsheen Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 When I put the oil pan back on my turbo engine just before the swap I used a stock gasket (from BAP) and a thin film of black silicone gasket maker. That was two years ago - no oil pan leaks... But, I totally believe in Nissan's silicone gasket material. I've put VQ30's and KA's back together with that stuff. They were engineered NOT to use gaskets, just silicone - but that stuff is pretty amazing. If the parts (bottom of block and top of pan) were cleaned properly and the silicone applied properly, I don't know why it wouldn't work by itself with no other gasket in place. But, like Blu said, you've got little to loose if they do the work - except maybe another trip to the dealership... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Yeah, you can use the Silicone Gasket stuff, but besure to use the right kind rated for oil, The Grey stuff, works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 Thank you for all your email,i am bringing the car monday to the dealer to redo the job will keep you posted. regards serge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 How to Modify recommends bonding the gasket to the oil pan with weather strip adhesive and applying anti-seize on the block side of the gasket. I assume it would allow removing and replacing the oil pan without replacing the gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKLR Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 How to Modify recommends bonding the gasket to the oil pan with weather strip adhesive and applying anti-seize on the block side of the gasket. I assume it would allow removing and replacing the oil pan without replacing the gasket. Maybe so but for me I hate cleaning weather strip adhesive off of parts. It's called weather strip adhesive, use it for what it's intended for. A proper gasket and or silicone work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 ...It's called weather strip adhesive, use it for what it's intended for... Yes, exactly use it for what it's for what it's intended for: 3Mâ„¢ Super Weatherstrip Adhesive For adhering all types of rubber weatherstripping to car doors and trunks. An excellent adhesive for bonding engine gaskets. Black formula is a strong, flexible, rubbery adhesive that withstands vibration and extreme temperature variations. Primarily designed for use on t-tops, moon-roofs and sun-roofs. If the method works and the gasket is reusable (think Nissan Competition gasket) then why would you have to clean off the weather strip adhesive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I've glued the gasket to the pan for decades. Use Anti-Seize on the block. Keeps any cleaning restricted to something off the car and easily put on the bench. Loctite 598 (Black) is a good silicone for that use, Ultra-Grey is similar. Do not use 736 or 732, it is not what it was meant for, both Black and Grey are designed with the thought of continual hot oil contact, and possibly oily residue on the mating surfaces. READ THE DIRECTIONS CAREFULLY AND FOLLOW THEM! For cleanup, you are likely going to need a chisel to break the oil pan off the block (and then have to straighten it afterwards), and use something like "Chisel Gasket Remover" which is a spray-on methelyene chloride based aerosol to remove the residues. Spray it on, give it a few seconds and then wipe if off. I've had no issues with gaskets where I had to resort to silicone only. If they say it will stop the leak, then hold them to it. You don't let them do the work the way they want to do it, they can always use it to deny any further warranty against leakage or other issues that may creep up in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 I've glued the gasket to the pan for decades. Use Anti-Seize on the block. Keeps any cleaning restricted to something off the car and easily put on the bench. Loctite 598 (Black) is a good silicone for that use, Ultra-Grey is similar. Do not use 736 or 732, it is not what it was meant for, both Black and Grey are designed with the thought of continual hot oil contact, and possibly oily residue on the mating surfaces. READ THE DIRECTIONS CAREFULLY AND FOLLOW THEM! For cleanup, you are likely going to need a chisel to break the oil pan off the block (and then have to straighten it afterwards), and use something like "Chisel Gasket Remover" which is a spray-on methelyene chloride based aerosol to remove the residues. Spray it on, give it a few seconds and then wipe if off. I've had no issues with gaskets where I had to resort to silicone only. If they say it will stop the leak, then hold them to it. You don't let them do the work the way they want to do it, they can always use it to deny any further warranty against leakage or other issues that may creep up in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 I am still at lost with getting the dealer fixing my oil pan i got the Z back last week and it still leak!!! it is a thing after the other now the mecanic there is telling me that if it leak again i will have to change the oil pan,dont understand why ??? i have to change it,they say it might be worpt first the rear main seal ,then the clutch slave cylinder,then the oil pan gasket,and now the oil pan.???he is still not intaling a oil pan gasket even that i gave him one ,if any one as some more sugestions please let me know.I wish they fix it once and for all,should i have them change the oil pan??or i should bring it to some one else. THANKS SERGIO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 The oil pan gasket i gave them is a FEL-PRO 0S-20076. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Sounds to me like you should talk to a different REPUTABLE mechanic. Get an estimate and pledge of warranty, then ask for your $ back from the 1st mechanic. They have no obligation to refund any of your $ unless it says so in your service agreement. If they haven't fixed your car how you've asked and understood they were going to fix it then it's your right to go somewhere else. As for the oilpan. unless they've damaged it, you should be able to have it cleaned off, unbent, and reinstalled with the appropriate gasket relatively cheaply. It is a good idea to do your mainseals at the same time since there's not that much to them. Though the rear main seal may entail removing the tranny. (Should be easy 1 or 2 hours for a good mechanic) Sometimes on the L2x series oilpans, if the 10mm bolts that hold it on are over tightened, they'll indent the rim of the pan and cause a weak seal between them Usually there's a set of metal reenforcement brackets to help stiffen the rim for the bolts particularly on the corners, but often that's missing. New ones can be easilly fashioned using 1/8" plumbers tape to spread the pressure evenly. it's also VERY important to follow the bolt tightening procedure listed in the manual especially when using a Cork gasket. Make sure the gasket sealer is made for oil, not water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rival5 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 When I was in Tucson I had good dealings with Micro Import Services at 1033 N. Catalina Avenue. You could give them a call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtdds71 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Sergio: Got your personal message asking for a review of the approach I used. I know your frustration. Many folks have different suggestions as to how best to seal the oilpan, all kinds of different products, etc. Makes the final choice difficult. I solved the leaking oil pan on my '72 Z by doing all of the following: (1) fastidiously cleaned the oil pan, inside and out, removing all traces of oil, especially from the sealing flange area, (2) patiently "flattened" the flange surface to remove any "dimples" in the bolt hole areas caused by previous over-tightening of the bolts, (3) bought a high-quality oil pan gasket (Fel-pro), (4) manufactured my own set of custom reinforcement strips to go around the entire perimeter of the pan (I think I used 1/2" wide flat bar stock found in any hardware store, about 1/8" thick). This took some time, as the flange makes some angles and turns. As I recall, I wound up with about 5 or 6 separate pieces, as I could not bend the bar stock around the corners. Holes were drilled with a drill press. Then the strips were cleaned, etched and painted. (5) bought some slightly longer retaining bolts, as the increased thickness of the flange supports meant the original bolts might be a bit short. (6) Thoroughly cleaned the mating surface of the bottom of the engine block. (7) Applied Ultra-black Permatex gasket maker to both sides of the Fel-pro gasket. (8) Seated pan in place, using some longer bolts at either end to position the pan. (9) Pressed the pan into place, and as quickly as possible installed all the rest of the bolts. (10) Only "hand tightened" the bolts at first (maybe 1 ft.lb. of torque). (11) Waited about an hour for the Permatex to take on a "set", then torqued the bolts sequentially, working from mid-pan to the front and back edges, to about 4 ft.lbs.. I let it all set for about a day before putting oil into the crankcase. This seemed to solve the problem. I should also mention that, while the pan was off, I removed the rear main bearing cap so that I could re-seal the mating surfaces in case that had not been done sufficiently when the engine was rebuilt. I also installed two new rear main bearing cap side seals into the slots on the sides of the bearing cap. The rear engine seal had been replaced previously, so I left that alone. Overall, I think the main problem I had was with warpage of the pan, and an inability to apply even torque pressure to the pan flange. Carefully straightening the flange, then installing the custom flange brackets made the difference. No more drips! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 "Overall, I think the main problem I had was with warpage of the pan, and an inability to apply even torque pressure to the pan flange. Carefully straightening the flange, then installing the custom flange brackets made the difference" That is what it comes down to! Warped pan and oil on the mating surfaces. The Ultra Black (similar to 598) is more tolerant of oil than any of the other silicones 598 was specifically designed for this service. If you can't find Ultra Black, your local Loctite Vendor should be able to get you 598. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) I have always had dry gasketing with Permatex #2 on both sides of the gasket. It's made for this exact purpose. Clean surfaces with Windex, apply goop to both surfaces or gasket, and assemble with finger torque. Go back in a couple of hours and torque to spec. #2 stays a bit pliable so it continues to seal. It's easy to remove later too. I don't think it's good for exhaust work. I wouldn't use it there anyhow. I also used it for the rear main cap corners, and oil seal lube/sealant during install. Edited May 15, 2011 by cygnusx1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 Thank you,all for your informations,keep it coming by next week i will have to make a new try and come up with a new plan of action,some great experiences from all of you with the same problem are giving me some hope i do have the original oil pan that the dealer as removed ( remenber they asked me to get them another pan originaly wich i did )stored in my garage so i can start working on all those area to get it flat as suggested. Regards Sergio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutchdust Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 The number one reason for stamped steel fittings like oil pans, rocker and timing chain covers leaking is OVER TIGHTENING. Especially when hold down rails are not used. Over tightening warps the flange and squeezes the gasket material out, permanently distorting the pan rails. You may be able to remove your oil pan and use a sheet of flat stock to support the rail and dimple the bolt holes back in alignment. As others have mentioned though, get both mating surfaces clean with a non-residue cleaner like brake cleaner. What I do because I generally only intend to replace a gasket every 100,000 miles or more is put a LIGHT film of gasket sealer on the mating surface of the pan, apply my gaskets and then another very light film on the mating surface of the block. Put the cover in place and tighten all bolts in a crossing pattern starting fro the center outward until just snug. Then put maybe a 1/4-1/2 turn past snug all the way around in a crossing pattern. Oil pans are a NON-STRESSED member and only need to not fall off (and seal) so too much torque is a fine way to screw the pooch with a stamped steel cover. Chances are, if you're using a torque wrench to install a pan and you get a "click" you've already over tightened it regardless of how low your settings go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 ^^^^AGREED!^^^^ Many gaskets now incorporate a steel 'pipe' through the gasket to prevent the fastener from being torqued any closer to a gasket surface than a given dimension (call it a spacer, some look like pieces of cut tubing, others like a washer built into the gasket itself). This is due to the poor training in manual trades insofar as understanding gasket tightening! I don't know of any 'click' wrenches at 4 ft lbs that would overtighten them (they will be calibrated in inch-pounds and calculations will need to be done to convert to 48 inch-lbs). They will be 1/4" drive, and if they don't overtighten plenum seals on a gas turbine which calls for 15 inch-pounds (that's about what...1/4 what our oil pan gaskets use!!!) then I doubt it will overtighten the pan. Personally I use a screwdriver torquemeter from Snap-On and it works just fine. If you use a 1/2" or 3/8" drive torque wrench...it's too big! Proper Tool for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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