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seattlejester last won the day on March 9

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  1. seattlejester

    T3/T4 Turbo that spools like stock?

    They are running it through the gauntlet to see what went wrong with it, so hopefully soon. I wouldn't say obsessive as well informed, or at least curious. Lots of people ask about good turbos or turbo recommendations, and you will find some recommend based purely on peak numbers. Characteristics are harder to find out. I had a lot of trouble figuring it out and I asked a friend about it, he gave me the low down and taught me how to look at compressor maps. Once you can read those you can pull the numbers off of the maps. He spec'd his turbo for his motor and it makes too much power almost too quickly. That is the best type of problem to have, so I wanted a piece of that. Looking at the maps I ended up back to the same turbo. I had a lot of issues with my setup, but once everything was working, it is a ridiculous benchmark point one you can compare lots of things to. That is really all bench racing though, it is the application that really speaks to you. If your goals are at that point, and you want to maintain the money you have into the dump, then you have to remember to factor that into the price of the turbo as a "savings." Granted if you had a flange and a u-bend, dump pipes are one of the easiest things to make. I just redid mine to clean my new transmission, cost me $30 for the pipe.
  2. seattlejester

    T3/T4 Turbo that spools like stock?

    True, you won't really notice if you limit yourself in your projected ball park. You aren't asking a ton from the turbos you are looking at for your power goals. Now the question is when you do ask a lot from it how will it behave. Like the 57 trim you are looking at is a 7566 by common nomenclature. A bw is s200sx-e is a 7670. Similar right? One can support 475hp according to some sites. In my research I've seen real world 420whp at 16lbs and that is reving the nuts off the turbo at 130k+ RPM. The bw will do that at 100k RPM and the max power it will support is 650hp. So same size frame, newer feature you are getting almost 30% more out of it. That translates to lower turbine rpm, which equates to lower charge air temp, which leads to denser air charge, which leads to lower IAT, which leads to higher VE, which leads to more fuel, which leads to even more cooling, which leads to higher VE, which leads to more power, extracted, and so on so on. Turbo will last longer, charge air will be cooler, power will be felt sooner, VE will be higher, thus more fuel, more power, more cooling, more exhaust, more turbine pressure, etc etc. If you are playing down low though you are probably right, you won't really notice unless someone has a very similar setup as you and they pull away, build boost sooner, or what not. Air might be warmer, you may need a psi or more to compensate, your IAT may be higher, your VE will be lower, but still you can keep compensating with higher boost to a point where something doesn't work. For me it was a question of fitment. Frankly a borg warner wouldn't even fit with the manifold that I had, so I was looking at the same turbos on the same website as you are. From my research Himni is a reputable vendor usually focused on rotaries and they have some of the best prices. I entertained ebay turbos, even tried to justify the ball bearing ones, but that seemed silly. Then I found AGP that had a hilariously perfect hotside for me. One they didn't even know if it would fit the newly introduced SX-E line. When I called and asked the guy said no at first then walked up grabbed one and opened a supercore and found that it would indeed fit. Then I had a perfect sized open hotside that would leave me the smallest of room, but room none the less. So for $100 more than what a T3/T04E hybrid was going to cost me I was going to get the best tech for my budget on almost what felt to me was a bespoke hotside. It also helped to know that my order was I think a month or so out, because they were getting these by the pallet and couldn't keep them in stock because they were selling so fast. Also I sound like a huge fan boy because I am. I mean it sucks, but if someone has a knock off that performs just as good as the "real thing" for a 1/3 of the price it would be foolish not to consider it. Just look at the sheer number of those available on ebay and amazon for the T3/T04E. The crazy thing is they make good power, and some for a bit more come with ball bearings and anti-surge porting, some even have warranties that put the factory ones to shame! So better for less, hard to beat, but when something is in almost a class of its own specification, size, and feature wise at a price that is not unreasonable for the features, I'll happily spend my money there. My friend has the earlier version the non E variant, for $50-100 more I could get a freaking billet wheel, improved casting, anti-surge porting, pre drilled pressure port, better bearing. I've been in his car and it was disturbingly quick like the most violent 330hp I have ever felt when we couldn't get the boost solenoid to open correctly. To have a turbo that was going to be that much better, no question at that point.
  3. seattlejester

    T3/T4 Turbo that spools like stock?

    Last time I did the math I think I'm more than 30 into mine... Older turbos will work, you just miss out on some features that make newer turbos "better." Extended tip, billet wheels, full face journals, pre drilled for boost reference, better matched compressor and wheels etc, and that is just the lower end spectrum, when you get up higher you get things like ball bearings, stainless exhaust housings, V-band inlets and outlets, etc. If you can live without it and just want a target horsepower, at the end any turbo will really get you there whether that is an ebay turbo that will last 1000 miles or an EFR turbo that will get you there fast, maintain power, have room to grow, never rust, etc etc etc. The question is if the price will break a project, if you have more into the turbo then into the entire engine, then it kind of seems silly.
  4. seattlejester

    T3/T4 Turbo that spools like stock?

    I forget who, but someone on here has a really really good flowing waste gate adapter. It does add to the price overall, adapter plus wastegate, but you can get really good boost control. I was in the same spot as you, wanting the best bang for buck, but being limited by finances, I couldn't swing for it until I had an unexpected amount of overtime to help fund it. You say that now, and it may be the case, but with turbos stepping up isn't hard at all if your other systems (fuel and cooling) are up to the task. I remember when I built my entire car thinking anything over 200hp was silly. Super glad I at least had the tank with 8AN outlets and a cooling setup rated for 4-500hp.
  5. seattlejester

    T3/T4 Turbo that spools like stock?

    I think room to grow would be the reason. From my recollection a 57 trim t3/t4 hybrid will get up to 400whp with a big displacement engine, so shouldn't be inefficient at the desired 260-290hp range desired. That turbo was exactly what I was looking at before I went with mine, same vendor too. The T3/T4 hybrid is still old tech, newer turbos have billet wheels, full face journal bearings if not ball bearing cartridges, better ratios, BW has extended tips as well, the only requirement that we can't meet here is the internal waste gate unless you start going way up in price, but for a bit more you could swing a pretty gnarly turbo. In the same range there is this offering if money was a concern. https://agpturbo.com/agp-turbo-cw-5257b/ You could also look at the older non sx-e series without the billet wheels for a savings https://agpturbo.com/borg-warner-agp-s251sx-turbocharger/ Or the SX-E series which is pretty nuts as far as journal bearing turbos go https://agpturbo.com/borg-warner-s252-sx-e-52-61-12709095019/ Flows almost 10 more CFM with 1mm more than the standard series with the billet wheel Or you can go full bannanas with an EFR https://agpturbo.com/borg-warner-efr-6258/ Saves you from having to get a blow off valve and it has the integrated waste gate as well as water cooling and has insane specs
  6. seattlejester

    T3/T4 Turbo that spools like stock?

    That is very interesting to ponder. You are correct, short gears will get up in RPM faster and spool later RPM wise, but will not be as noticeable since you will be in upper RPM most of the time. Taller gears will spool faster RPM wise, but will take longer to get in the higher RPM. If load was so good, then yes one should upshift to basically lug the engine making max load to spool the turbo, but then there is a differential in road speed to RPM that pushes the motor out of the power band. The practice of brake boosting would be a counterpoint, adding load without the penalty of being in the wrong gear for the speed is done quite frequently, the usefulness is limited to roll racing though. Same thing with stalling against a torque converter with an auto for drag racing. Interestingly, I stepped down from a 4.11 to a 3.7 final drive, and now I'm looking to go even lower with my new transmission. Maybe like 3.5 or 3.3. In my situation I can row through the gears almost too fast, making the gears taller via a lower numerical value final drive would lengthen my time in each gear as well as increase the overall speed. My turbo is on the lower portion of the efficiency graph so it would still benefit from load. It is a balancing act, lower it too much and you will shift the power band, raise it too much and the turbo won't be running at its most efficient island. Granted it is not something really discussed as swapping ratios and gearing isn't something most people contend with or is much of an option not in our community. My turbo is a borg warner S257SX-E. Turbo tech is really changing, limiting yourself to certain restrictions may be detrimental as Gollum says.
  7. seattlejester

    T3/T4 Turbo that spools like stock?

    Anything under 3.5k spool really doesn't feel too much different to me. Cars with full spool/thresh hold super early on though tend to feel like they have a weak top end unless they are employing trickery via QSV or VVG. Honestly the only time you would notice is if you wanted to pass someone without changing gear, granted even in 6th, I can go from vacuum to boost in a second or so since cruising is at 2500rpm. My turbo spools pretty quick, I've data logged a friend's and his spools higher as his turbo is smaller, less efficient, and he has smaller displacement on a less efficient engine, but really no complaints in speed or feel. The only two times I've noticed was when we were in top gear trying purposely to find the spool point and another when we were playing with a turbo miata, granted that may be more of a power to weight scenario. If low end grunt is what you are looking for, bigger displacement or a supercharger might be more apt. I see you are local, happy to meet up and give you a lift sometime if you want to make a more informed decision.
  8. seattlejester

    Calling people who have torn down their JZ motors!

    If you tightened the cap down on the offset dowels then you have probably mis-shapen them, unless the connecting rods are softer then you may have made an imprint on the rod cap. If you tightened one side down tightly then you could have bent them. Given their size though it may not be likely. Measure the clearance if it is a friction fit then you may want to start over. If it has a bit of clearance then it is more or less for a rough alignment and once fully seated they won't do anything as the friction of the machined surface will hold it over the alignment of the dowels. They should be more or less fully seated before you start tightening it. You shouldn't be pulling them down with the bolt. While you are in there make sure to do the thrust washer checks and crank alignment.
  9. seattlejester

    Arttu's 240Z Never Ready

    Bummer to hear that. One step at time, still looking forward to the updates!
  10. seattlejester

    Three question-points about 13b-powered S30s

    ^That is funny, I used to do the same on that track carrying too much speed in Gran Turismo. Looks like he is having trouble keeping the car in gear with it popping out. I wonder what transmission is behind it. I think drive did a comparison and found a rotary uses more fuel than a V8 with about the same output. Alex http://s30drifting.blogspot.com/ had a rotary in his drift S30. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTvrwMREOb53ARiCs23q5tg Francisco bought the chassis. is a pretty good one on how to get it into the car http://www.viczcar.com/member-rides/matthew-clemeshas-20b-rotary-powered-73-240z There is another one on viczcar Solid mounting it in theory shouldn't be a problem as it has no piston type movement. You could add isolators via hockey pucks, jaguar mounts, polyurethane mounts etc.
  11. seattlejester

    New member CA 73 imsa widebody project

    Welcome to the forums, Looks like the ca you used is a strange font and causing the system to redirect. Please try and refrain from using symbols, or characters including odd fonts in post titles as it causes the post to be inaccessible. Hope you have a good time here.
  12. The metal manifolds came stock on the earlier years. They make other options too, but it seems like the engines with the dual intakes seem like the later years that have a plastic intake like most newer cars have like the ford ST's the LS engine, WRX cars, etc. They still feature the vanity cover which is removable. If that removable vanity cover keeps you from wanting a viable engine option then it is pretty much at the top of your list there on priorities. Nothing wrong with that, it is just an exclusion requirement for you that we have to factor in. So priority for you: No vanity cover, even removable ones No plastic intake manifolds No LS engines No RB's No 2jz's Kind of reduces your options a bit. Breaking the "mold" is fine, you just have to be aware that the more you break the mold, the better your skills will have to be as there will be less people who have gone down that route. Your reasons for breaking the mold though have to be really on point at least for you, just because you want some stranger to say "oh I have not seen that before" is not really going to outweigh being broken down on the side of the road because you need a custom serpentine belt that takes 3 days to ship. If it does outweigh it for you then more power to you, that "wow factor" is higher on your list of priorities than serviceability. Keep in mind with the internet, there aren't that many surprises left for those who know how to use google. Not having a halo bar would make this more of a roll bar than a roll cage. You will find terminology is pretty important here. I did remove my door bar after about a month as slipping in the car became an exercise in foot placement and weight management. Think things through. You are as miles pointed out on a swap haven, almost every type of swap has been conceived or witnessed on here and elsewhere, V10, V12, flat 4, rear mount V6, rotary (2, 3, and now even 4 apparently), 4-cylinder (even a 4g63, among SR20, FA22C etc), even electric. The reasons people have done it or started it range from because they had access or they were bored to pointing out the benefits in engineering, serviceability, familiarity, or whatever. Narrow it down, to a couple candidates that have good pros that outweigh any cons and ask specifics. One thing that might help in reality check terms is asking how much people have spent getting the swap into their cars, because in the JZ side of things the average cost is a suggested 7-10k just in getting the engine in and running with minor supporting systems like coolant and fuel, not including chassis, rear end, suspension, brakes.
  13. seattlejester

    A musician's therapist (The $300 Z)

    My situation is unique in that my frame rails come into the cabin. So the frame is welded to that frame rail. I'm not sure if I would just trust welding a plate to the sheet metal on the floor.
  14. Not anything really plastic there? The stock intake pipe is plastic as is for almost all cars. Manifold or collector plenum is big cast aluminum unit I believe, which has short comings in distribution so it usually gets replaced. I've seen people mention this a few times. It really doesn't need mentioning. Who wants a peaky 300hp build? Like who takes an 2jzgte, 1jzgte, rb25det, or even an L28et which all have pretty flat-ish power bands and curves and almost make 300hp, and finds a turbo that doesn't spool until super late and then chokes the crap out of it up top so it limits itself to only 300hp? That is running a massive hotside and then basically an equivalent massive wastegate to open the moment it starts to spool. It really does not merit mentioning. That was a thing when turbo manufacturers didn't make anything for gas cars, now they do. Borg warner, precision, garrett, they all have a performance gas engine division now, so no more borrowing diesel turbos and dealing with their characteristics. I am pedantic so a correction. Unique means singular. If it has been done and done more than once, then by definition no longer unique. I mean if you want a unique car, find the excrement of two singularly unique animals and smear it all over your car, it will be by definition unique, with an minute chance of replication. I went to a junkyard last week, and the guy there said he put together a 4 rotor 280z like a decade ago. 2x12A motors with a custom e-shaft. I thought there was only 1 4-rotor S30, even that is not the case. A caged car really shouldn't be on the road anymore. A minor accident can go from a fender bender to a skull fracture. Sheet metal is a lot more forgiving than DOM tube in a collision. Roll bar with anti-intrusion bars may be sufficient for protection. You can get a cage and have it fit really tight to the body and run impact absorption material, but that would be pretty expensive and still it would take quite a bit of visibility away. I can't really speak on this with authority so I'll let others chime in. Make a list. We'll throw out options and test it: Priority: "Uniqueness" (super vague, maybe something like not-domestic or german, might be more apt a description) "Aesthetics" (in regards to an engine is kind of tough, you have to narrow this down more, you mention not having hoses/wires everywhere, well turbo cars are going to generally have more hoses than NA cars etc) 300hp no 4 cylinder "Useable" power band No transmission tunnel modification Regarding your build, how much do you have budgeted for this? If this in any way feels harsh, here is where I come from. I had a roll bar which I removed it for a couple more inches of leg room. I had a fuel cell which I am replacing with a OEM tank from a camaro because I get fuel starvation on corners. I built my fuel system twice as I went from simple carb only to fuel injected turbo. Plan things out, if your plan can with stand scrutiny then it will be easier to justify going down the road. If someone told me 8 years ago that I would have over $30k in my $500 car, I probably would have reconsidered or done things differently.
  15. seattlejester

    A musician's therapist (The $300 Z)

    I'd prefer if it met up with the rocker and trans tunnel, but it works for now.