BRAAP

I don’t have any videos that I have been holding, just heard a couple V-10 ford pickups running around town with nice sounding exhausts. Here are a few more... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIiK2rt69ts&feature=related

If you are going to use the Chrysler coil pack, be sure you get the connector with some amount of length in wiring as well. No need to go back re read anything. If you got your EDIS-6 up and running already, swapping out a Chrysler coil pack is like changing spark plugs. A NO BRAINER!!! The coil packs are DUMB! No electronics in the coil packs them selves. They are nothing more than 3 ignition coils, bundled in one package, each coil feeds 2 cylinders. This part is actually very easy, once you keep in mind the Datsun firing order, and the trigger sequence of the EDIS module, after that, it just matter of what coil you want to fire what cylinders. It really is, just that easy. Especially if you already have the engine up and running on EDIS. 1) The Datsun cylinders that are paired and will be “sharing” a coil are 1-6, 2-5, 3-4. 2) EDIS-6 triggers the coil in this sequence A-C-B 3) Trigger A for cylinders 1/6, Trigger C for cylinders 2/5, Trigger B for cylinders 3/4. 4) Now it is just a matter of which coil you want to feed what cylinder, (based on your preference for plug wire routing, etc) and splice the Chrysler coil pack pig tail to the EDIS wiring accordingly. EDIS-6 wiring diagram; EDIS-6 triggering sequence; In this picture, you can see the Chrysler pigtail with the BLACK, RED, and WHITE wires. Note the painted colored squares on the side of the coil pack.

The last video was for sure the better one regarding exhaust note. Sounds more like a Dodge Viper V-10, or a 5 cylinder. A RAP that is also Coarse and has distinct Brump in the tone. Different for sure, but not the exotic tone of say an F-1 car, Ferrari, or sport bike, exhaust sound we are trying to achieve. Now the Ford V-10 MOD motor with free flowing exhaust has that tone… Hmmm…

..... So regarding the question about the Chrysler coil pack wiring with EDIS-6, please keep those questions AND answers, to that thread. I’ll post up the answer to your question in few moments in that thread… http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=133381

Sidwell, Plug wires, ESPECIALLY ones that will not give the Mega Squirt brain EMF headaches, just aren’t available for the FORD coil pack, or are hard to come by. Magnecor might, though I've not contacted them directly on that. Stay away from MSD, TAYLOR, ACCELL wires etc. Jacobs is the lowest ones I’d use, otherwise, NOLOGY or Magnecor are the ones to use. The terminal connection issue you are experiencing is the main reason I went to the Chrysler coil pack. It has the same terminals as the GM HEI allowing more plug wire options. Also, the Chrysler coil pack has the same primary and secondary resistances as well, i.e. plays perfectly well with the EDIS system. Then I was able to source “quality” plug wires that the ECU would have NO issues regarding EMF. Also, be absolutely sure to use Resistor spark plugs as well. Here is cut and paste from aontehr thread; Hope that helps, Paul

EXACTLY! Some perspective folks… These are Datsun’s, which in name sake IS budget!!! These are NOT Porsches or Ferraris. As such, MOST Datsun guys tend to be frugal, the cars are cheap to begin with! I'll be honest with you all. If I had the money to do it right in the first place, I’d start with a Ferrari and build from there! Instead of being money rich, we tend to be ingenuity rich so we take these cheap little Jap cars and alter them, modify them, try different things, all in effort to bring this cheap little Datsun up to a performance level on par with the financially out of reach exotic offerings!

Yeeupsie doodle. You were very much on the right track. For some odd reason, those 180 degree headers get the dual plane V-8 "almost" to the same note as the flat plane V-8 cranks, though not quite. In those videos, you can still make out the rumpity roughness of a dual plane V-8, not quite the same high pitch rap of the single plane crank V-8's

Gollum, You are on the right track. The Subaru Flat 4 with a free flowing exhaust sounds like it has misfire, (it doesn’t, really, it just sounds that way), due to it firing events and when those pulse meet up in the exhaust, for the same reason a Domestic V-8 has that distinct "bumpity bumpity BUMP bumpity bumpity BUMP" in its exhaust note. This diagram should help show that alit more clearly, regarding the V-8s, (topic of this thread). The very distinct exhaust sound made by a dual plane V8 is from the irregular firing order. Each time two cylinders fire on the same side in sequence, the two exhaust pulses create high exhaust pressure and noise which can be heard out the tailpipe. This repeats later in the firing order on the other side of the engine. Often times, balance pipes are used to equalize the large exhaust pressure difference between each side of the engine. The pressure equalization improves exhaust scavenging, especially at low RPM.

Thank you for clearing that up Jon. I think that is what Jeffp was trying to say in the first place, which makes sense.

I have not personally built one of these shaved heads, though I must admit, the concept is intriguing. I don’t know what ruffled your feathers Jeff, but if it was me, I didn’t mean to. I read your post as you claiming the Kameari tensioner by itself to be the fix for the altered cam timing, and the adjustable cam sprocket just be to the icing on the cake. Both parts are mentioned at opposite ends of your post, not together going hand in hand. I apologize if I misread your post. Yes degreeing the cam is important, no doubt. That stickie you are referring to is NOT the end all be all to setting a cam. A REAL tuner will know the numbers on any cam card are merely a starting point for extracting max performance and those numbers the cam manufacture printed on that card helps the builder to ensure the timing gear being used was manufactured properly and not out of tolerance. On the dyno we “verify’ the ignition timing and AFR's are what that engine wants, same goes for cam timing. As for the pissing match about how fast your car is compared to everyone elses? Are you having a bad day, week, month? Sorry Jeff, I know you are more mentally mature than that, c’mon. This isn’t the grade school sand box. There are guys on this forum that have built and dyno tuned endurance race engines with over 1100 HP, (that someone is probably posting in this thread), but that doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t make mistakes or post something in error on occasion. We are all human, it is in how we deal with our mistakes and errors that makes the real difference. Not trying to beat down others. That's just immature, asinine, and a sign of a fragile inflated ego.

Have a Super Happy Birthday Dan.

Pioneer does sell the cam tower shims. The last 10 or so L-6 heads we did that required shims, I have noticed Pioneer has been having a packaging problem. They are being packaged as a 4 cylinder set in the 6 cylinder box. Our supplier is working with us on this. So heads up you DIY head assemblers getting Pioneer cam tower shims from your local machine shop. Before you walk out the door with your box of shims for the L-6, open it up and verify that you do in-fact have all 5 shims per set. 4 L shaped and one straight.

The cam tower shims go directly under the cam towers themselves, AND 5 of the head bolts do go through the cam towers, see the post above. One issue will be the thread engagement of the cam tower bolts, which are already “borderline” in thread engage as it is. A possible solution would be to spot face, .080”, the cam towers where the cam tower bolts go through the cam towers to regain that thread engagement. I’ll look into that tomorrow and may even try spot facing a few on the mill to be sure it can be done. The rest of your information looks accurate, thank you for your input.

Jeff, Sorry, but I disagree with you on a couple things. Tensioner; 1) The chain tensioner, (including the Kameari) takes up the tension on the “slack” side of the chain which has no effect on the length of the chain on the tension side between the crank and cam. 2) In shaving the head .080”, the cam is now .080” closer to the crank and with the tension of the timing chain still taught, that effectively causes the cam to roll, retarding the cam timing, which the chain tensioner will NOT take out because it is on the slack side of the chain, not the tension side. 3) If we are removing enough material from the head that we now are advancing the cam by skipping a tooth, and still able to achieve “accurate” crank to cam timing then, yes, that would old true. I have not looked into or calculated if that can be done though. In short, shaving the head without shimming the cam towers back up DOES alter the cam timing and the chain tensioner does NOT affect or adjust cam timing in any manner whatsoever. If it did, I would’ve built an oil pressure actuated variable cam timing arrangement already. Head Bolts/thread engagement; 1) 5 of the head bolts do go through the cam towers, and in removing .080” from the head, AND then using enough cam tower shims to shim the cam towers back up to the appropriate height, those 5 head bolts are now engaging the block threads the same amount as they would with an uncut stock head. 2) The rest of the head bolts however, could now very easily bottom out from going to deep. Adding a .080” washer under the heads of those head bolts now brings those bolts back to the same thread engagement as we had with an uncut stock head. The valve cover clearance is definitely something to consider. Doubling up on valve cover gaskets would fix the clearance issue, though keeping it from leaking would be a trick…

All these “stage shows”, yet we never hear about the intermission, or what lane the staging is taking place? Cams, engine builds, head work, suspension systems, Stage 1, Stage 4, Stage 8.34.71?!?!? All these stages, yet no definite specs to put with them! How’s an engine builder/machinist/tuner to understand? Is this term STAGE some new fangled Honda thing? No offense, but calling camshafts by a “stage” is about as vague as saying that a camshaft has bumps on it. These “dealers” selling cams in “stages” really need to be quite a bit more specific about what “their stage” is, and what it does so when a prospective customer gets all giddy about their latest "stage 2000" kit and asks about it on a forum, the rest of the car guys in the know can put that stage into some perspective and help the new guy out. Paul (stage 1/4) Ruschman

Transition was in reference to the loads the engines sees, rate of those loads being applied/absorbed and when those loads are applied at what RPM’s. In an air plane, from idle, if you “stab” the throttle wide open abruptly, the engine will sputter, RPMs WILL decrease, and if the engine doesn’t quit, it will slowly rev up to full power, and not very smoothly either, within 1-3 seconds, as OE Aircraft carbs and mechanical Fuel injection have very rudimentary acceleration enrichments circuits. In short, there is no REAL need to “stab” the throttle open and closed in an aircraft. In a car, especially a performance application, we are CONSTANTLY stabbing the throttle open and closed and everywhere in-between and at varying rates. Modern EFI for cars has many diverse ways of allowing the tuner to adjust the acceleration enrichment allowing the engine to transition those abrupt load changes smoothly and quickly. As for the trigger wheel. The ECU needs some form of reference as to what the engine is doing, i.e. RPM. If the ECU does NOT know how the fast the engine is turning, it has no idea how much fuel to inject and when! The more intricate the trigger wheel, the more accurate the ECU can be in knowing exactly where in the cycle each piston is at. For EFI systems that also incorporate Distributor-less ignition control and sequential fuel injection, that sort of accuracy is imperative, or it just doesn’t work. With wheels that have 360 holes, it can tell where that engine is at within 1 degree accuracy. Why the heck am writing all this? This most basic of how and why EFI systems work, its sensors and the trigger wheels the use and why, is all over the internet. The MegaSquirt online manual is good source for that kind of information. Peruse through that, you will learn a lot there.

Wheel hop and half shaft angularity are both bad. Wheel hop shock loads the drive-train which with any sort of power will break something regardless. You want little to NO U-joint angularity, and those stock half shafts with the stock Nissan U-joints will hold up. JnJ, the guys with that car, used to run U-joint half shafts, broke a few, but were able to launch like that with them, but recently switched over to, I think it is the 300-ZX CV joints.

... Or you could just buy a C-5 or C-6 and install a Z car steering wheel? And for a little more of that Z car feel, install a set of Z car seats? Chassis is already sorted out, works well on track and street, already has that nifty transaxle, plenty of after-market support... Ah heck, I just talked myself into it... I'm hittin Craigs-list...

I personally feel that changing out the rear suspension, (especially ignoring the bigger issue regarding the Z car suspension, which is the front suspension, not the rear), because it is weak and/or can’t handle power, or is a poor performance design for a sports car is an assumed and/or misguided concept that we see come up from time to time. I understand wanting to install a different rear suspension and different differential for the sake of “because we can”, or for “WOW factor” to make our Z a little different from the rest, but I don't understand that swap from a performance stand point regarding drag racing, road racing or performance street use. The OE Z car rear suspension has proven itself in strength and design! From a performance perspective, the front suspension needs the attention WAY before the rear does. The hows, whys, and what fors, have been documented in our "Brakes, Wheels, Suspension and Chassis" section. Peruse through the stickies at the top of that section for some very good in-depth info. Not sure what sort of power you are planning to put to the ground, but below is a picture of one of our members with a Blown, Nitrous dual quad V-8 on drag slicks, (the differential and rear suspension wont see much more brutal, punishing power delivery than that without flipping the car over!) running 9.2 seconds in the ¼ at 153+ MPH! For perspective, that car is going 0-153 MPH in 9.2 seconds, with the stock Datsun Z differential and suspension! This car runs this fast, and every-time that stock Datsun differential and rear suspension is absorbing enough power/torque to "yank" the front wheels off the ground, time and again on the stock parts. I know of at least one other member running 8 seconds at 150+ on the stock Datsun differential and suspension. Geometry wise, the stock Datsun rear suspension isn’t too bad. It’s not perfect, but not too shabby, especially considering the age of its design. These car with the stock rear suspension design are still successfully campaigning on the race tracks against today’s offerings with much more modern suspension designs. I would agree that there probably is some to be gained handling wise with different suspension, but will take several years in sorting it out, (geometry adjustment, spring rates, balanced to the rest of the chassis, chassis stiffness etc), and only the most discerning road racers among us would be able to notice that difference, and with what is known about how to make the current Z car suspension design truly competitive on the track, would cost far less, time invested in setup and tuning would be shorted by not just months, but years, etc. Again, for the sake of making a Z car different than the rest, wanting to give it WOW factor, or just because we can, I say do it. From a performance standpoint, it will cost more money, require several more years invested in tuning tweaking, before it would be “acceptable” or hopefully, a better performing design than a nicely sorted out OE Z car suspension, and that is only if the person doing the tuning and tweaking is savvy enough regarding chassis design and tuning. That’s my $.02

WAY cool. Any info out there on that monster? Video?

1) How do you know for sure that you need valve guides and not new valves as well? 2) The Machine shop performing your cylinder head machine work, (the place that will be performing your grinding/cutting of the valve seats, facing valves, deck surfacing, jet wash cleaning, R&R guides, R&R of seats if need be, Heli-coil repair of stripped threaded holes, etc), WILL have valve guides in stock or at least access to them so I’d start there. If they do not or can not get them, then you are not dealing with an automotive machine shop. 3) Manganese Bronze guides are typical of high end race heads, that tend to get rebuilt very often, and most, (not necessarily all brands), of Manganese Bronze guides tend to wear the valve stems at a quicker rate than the cast iron guides. ALL L-series heads came with Iron guides from the factory, N/A and Turbo! If your engine is not a 600+ HP drag motor that will get torn down every 10-50 passes down the strip, then the cast iron guides will serve you well.

This thread linked below pretty much took off and ran with the Flat crank/single plane/180 degree V-8 crank concept. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=122238

AGREED!!!

That is a totally sahhhweet ride!!!!!! Very cool, thanks for sharing.

How could I forget Kevins most incredible modular inductions systems??? Please accept my apologies Kevin. That was not intentional. Accuate Injection SBC Cross Ram ITB; Accurate Injection Ford 302 ITB; Accurate Injection Nissan VK56DE ITB;