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OK, so whats the HybridZ community say....grind the heads or build it with flat-tops?

Grumpy, with all do respect, you have a lot of knowledge that we can all benefit greatly from, but in this thread, and my piston ring thread, you didn't read the thread before you made your response. If you'll read the last paragraph of the 4th post in this thread, you'll see that the subject of your post has already been addressed. But hats of to you for the being the only one that caught it. After talking with JE and Brodix this morning, and searching on line for pictures of the chambers on the heads that I have, it appears as if my heads have had the chambers welded up and reshaped. They look nothing like they are supposed to. I guess I have to either run a flat top piston, or start grinding on the chamber to reshape it correctly, then CC them all to make sure I get them all the same, and repeat 100 times till its right. This should be fun.

thanks for the words of encouragement, although at this point, I'm ready to throw this $*#$&%* thing in the garbage and buy a ZZ4 crate motor and call it a day, at least then I'll be able to drive the car. And Ledphoot, The deck clearance is set at .004", exactly as I asked the shop to do it (so when I cook it, I've still got a bit to machine off to true it up again) I also measured the heads a after I had the work done on those and compared against specs from Brodix Tech...they are well within operating specs.

I've got a procomp (holley blue clone), brand new, I'll sell you for $50 shipped...I think thats a little less than I paid for it. Then you go to pepboys and buy a block off plate and you're done. I don't think you'll pick up and HP from lack of frictional losses, but it certainly is easier.

Freeze plugs is better than frost plugs....I've heard that one quite a bit.

Progress has come to a screeching halt. Dammit. I got the rockers in today so I decided to clay the #1 piston and check piston to valve clearance....bolt the head on, engine turns about 10 degrees and stops. I hit the point where it stops a couple times hard so I might see some marks when I took the head back off. After assembling and disassembling a couple times, every piston dome is hitting the head surface around the spark plug area. I spent about $900 on these pistons because JE makes them specifically to fit the Brodix X-11 head. GRRRRRRRR I'm pissed. There have been way to many bumps in the road with this engine. I'm ready to pour gas on it and throw a match in it's general direction. Oh, and I realized the mistake I had made before hand and put the pistons in the correct holes before I put the head on. I'm surprised nobody caught that looking at the picture.....2 and 4 needed to be swapped for the correct valve releif orientation.

OK, it seams like you guys are using the term Total seal rings to include only the gapless type rings that they make. Total Seal also manufactures conventional style rings like everyone else. I am not talking about gapless stuff, I'm was trying to find the pros and cons off all the different variations of Moly Conventional type file-fit rings that are available.

I'd be more worried about your patio or driveway cracking

just face about 1/4" off of the old pushrod and drill a 1/4" diameter pilot in it, half an inch deep. Then machine your insert to the correct diameter with a 1/4" half inch long leg on one end, stick it in the pushrod and try it. Thinking more about it, I think a piece of cast iron would work better. I've got plenty of old cranks and cams if you need a piece of stock.

Obviously a roller would be best, but you don't want to spend the money. Second best would be a bronze one. another alternative may be a cast iron tipped pushrod. Cast iron generally has pretty good wear characteristics, but I'm not sure which would be better against a billet cam as far as pushrod and cam wear....bronze or cast iron. Anyone with a lathe could modify a stock pushrod with either tip. The only other alternatives are to replace it with another stock pushrod or upgrade to a chromolly pushrod. I'm not sure how the chromolly pushrod would fare against the billet cam...probably not well. I think the cast iron may be the better idea. The stock cams are cast, while the pushrod and lifters are billet. The cast cam has good wear characteristics against the billet lifter and pushrod, so I figure that a cast iron tipped pushrod should wear nicely against a billet cam. I probably have no idea what I'm talking about though.

Ok, I agree with you...and generally I use conventional moly rings. But here's the part that confuses me. http://www.totalseal.com/TechPage.aspx#trGaplessPistRings They list at least 10 different flavors of moly rings. Does is make any difference which ones I get? ...or do I just close my eyes and let my finger hit the monitor and pick whatever it lands on. I'm sure there is a reason behind them offering so many variations of the same basic thing, or maybe its all the same thing in different boxes. I only use total seal as an example....I'm sure Federal mogul, Speed pro, Hastings, and whoever else has a similar selection. Is it like choosing cheap beer at the store? Bud, miller, Coors, and michelob in a couple flavors each....they all suck about the same, but why do you choose one against the other?

Total seal makes many different types of rings, not just the gapless type. I was more asking about the different ring materials, styles, coatings...etc...

IIRC, the 305 heads have some pretty small valves. I don't see much point in using those on anything but a 305. I see you're in SD. If you ever come up to LA, I've got a decent set of 76cc 350 heads that I'll trade you for a 6 pack. I think even a stock 350 head with 194 valves would work better than a 305 head.

Without knowing deck height and gasket thickness, we can only guess. I would say right about 11:1 +/- 0.2 Probe lists a flat top .060 over flat top piston with -4cc releifs at 11.16:1 w/ 58cc heads

I was bored today to decided to figure out what parts I needed to gather up to put the other engine I bought back together. I found this engine on craigslist and the deal was too good to pass up. It had at least $3500 worth of go-fast parts in it. I knew it needed cam bearings because the seller told me he buggered one up taking out the cam. I didn't know the block was cracked in 3 places around the lifters. The engine also had .040 over PROBE SRS forged pistons. It just so happens that my machine shop screwed up and bored the first block I gave them to fit a .040 forged piston instead of the .030 forged pistons I had purchased. So, I have this block sitting in the garage all prepped and ready to go. I'll put all the parts in that. I lucked out...measured the pistons and bores, and everything jives. I was looking for rings today. I want a good file-to-fit ringset, but there are so many different options. Total seal alone has about 10 different flavors of rings to choose from. I imagine that there isn't one "best ring" for everything. What are the pros/cons to all the different types out there?

Well, they all looked the same when I dumped them out of the box...except one of them had 2 holes in it. I figured that would go in the front becuase its farthest away from the oil pump...and I was right. Then I picked up another one and started smacking it into the rear most hole in the block...I bend the bearing and beat up my tool a little bit. I fixed the tool on my lathe, then grabbed another bearing and tried again...this one went in easy. I grabbed my second set of bearings measured the ODs. There are 2 small ones, 2 medium ones, and 1 big one. Each is only about .010 larger than the next, which is why I didn't notice it. on the cam bearings, from the front back: Big, medium, small, small, medium I went back through all my manuals and books and instruction sheets that I could find, and nowhere does it mention this stuff. I guess these are little tricks that everyone just learns for themselves.

Finally...I got started on it 3 months ago, went through 2 machine shops and 3 blocks before it got done right. I got the rings sized up last night and installed the cam bearings...twice, and installed all the pistons on the rods. Today I assembled everything (and disassembled it a couple times) and degreed in the cam. I learned a couple things in building this engine. I've built plenty of motors in the past, and always had the machine shops install the cam bearings, and usually I was reusing the stock rods so I had the machine shop hang the rods on the new pistons. I always just put the rods back in the positions that I took them out of, and never thought twice about it. Well, after torquing down the 1 and 2 rods in this one, the crank wouldn't turn. After a little investigation, I saw the slight chamfer on one side of each rod....that I failed to notice when I put the pistons on the rods last night. Naturally, every single rod was facing the wrong direction. So I spent the next hour or so cutting my fingers while attempting to remove the spirolocks without screwing them up so I could flip the rods back around the right way. (NOTE TO SELF: next time use green assembly lube, not the red stuff....that way, you can tell the difference between it and the blood dripping off your fingers) I actually feel really stupid for not noticing the chamfer in the beginning, but ehh, live and learn. The cam bearing were also a learing experience. I thought all the bearings were the same size and the cam just slid in there and bob's yer uncle...wrong. Good thing I bought 2 sets of cam bearings. Anyway, here a couple pictures. Specs: 4.032" bore, Forged cromoly crank 6" H-beam rods, 12.7:1 C/R JE forged pistons Schneider .670 lift, 256 @ .050 solid roller cam Comp cams lifters Comp cams roller rocker Brodix X11 heads with 2.10/1.64 valves ARP studs throughout I was going to check the valve/piston clearance too, but realized that I was sent the 1.5:1 rockers when I ordered 1.6:1 rockers (what the cam card calls for) so I have to wait until next week. The pistons were so pretty, I almost didn't want to put them in the engine.

One of the other problems with the vortec heads is that you are limited on your cam lift without machining the guide down. When you machine the guide down, you need to run a roller tip rocker or the increased sideloads on the reduced guide will cause premature failure/wear. Most of the aftermarket heads use a longer valve, so that they can still maintain a safe guide length while also allowing higher valve lifts. If you plan on running a pretty small cam, the vortecs will probably be fine. Definately keep your eyes open for used stuff...craiglist, recycler, ebay, etc... I just bought an engine from a guy on Craigslist...paid $1000 for it. it had: Dart Pro-1 heads (1500) Scat Forged crank (500) 6" Eagle H-beam rods (400) Probe forged 11:1 pistons (400) Milodon oil pan (200) Comp Cams roller rockers (300) Edelbrock Torker II intake manifold (100) ....and he threw in a brand new set of Hooker Super Comp chevelle headers (I already sold those for $375). Thats about $3500 worth of goodies. I think I did good. I don't even mind that the block was cracked in the lifter valley. My point is, the deals are out there, you just have to find them.

Every "well taken care of, low mileage" small block I've ever purchased has had a bad bottom end. I tear down every engine I buy, regardless of what the PO says. I've haven't found one yet with good 1 or 2 rod bearings. At the very least, I would have the rods resized. If you can see any visual scratches on the crankshaft bearing surfaces, have the crank reground, and get new bearings and an oil pump. As a general rule I replace the oil pump, pickup, and oil pump driveshaft on ever motor I plan on using.....usually I replace the bottom end bearings also, as well as the cam bearings. It all depends what you want out of the engine. The engine you have, as it sits, will probably be a solid 200hp if you reassemble it with new gaskets. You can probably reach the 250hp mark if you put and intake and a cam in it. If you want more than that, you'll have to work on the stock heads, or get set of vortec or aftermarket heads. I would recommend a set of ProComp aluminum heads or any of the other aftermarket aluminum heads from Ebay before I recommend the vortecs, because they will work with a standard SBC intake manifold, and they are only about $100 or so more than the iron vortec heads, plus there is a lot of room for port work and they are already set up to run a pretty big cam, as long as you stay with a flat tappet setup. Just my 2 cents.

If you get the vortec heads, you'll need to buy a new intake manifold as well. What I've found to be about the best "bang for the buck" head is the ProComp or Patriot heads from ebay for $699. They're aluminum, come built with decent components, and there's lots of material for porting if you want to play with them. The local places get about $900 or a little more for them, but the Ebay price is tough to beat. Its only about $150/set more than the vortecs, which you would spend on the intake anyway, and its aluminum so you save quite a bit of weight.

Harbor freight is great....you just have to understand what you're buying. When I did construction during and after high school, I used Makita drills. I had 2 of the 12V drills w/ the red batteries. The drills were about $150 each and replacement batteries were about $60 each IIRC. I had about 8 batteries, and 2 chargers, so I could use the drill pretty much all day without running out of juice. Then a couple years ago, all but 2 of the batteries decided to fail completely, and the 2 that still worked were pretty week. I went to Home Depot to check on the new batteries and they no longer carried the NiCad version, just the NiMH versions, which required a different charger according to Makita. The chargers were abotu $30 each and the batteries $70 or so. Enter Harbor Freight. I bought the orange 18V drill for $35, and 2 spare batteries for $20 each. I've had the drill for 2 years now. Every year, I have to take it apart and tighten the screws that hold the clutch mechanism together, but aside from that, it kicks ass. If it ever does quit, I won't mind dropping another $35 for a new drill or $20 for a battery. Their tubing notcher sucks. The first thing I did after I stripped out all the holes and broke the clamp was re-thread everything to 3/8-16 (instead of 8mm), lengthened the slot, and welded gussets everywhere, and welded bracing on the clamp. Now it works properly. The wrenches that they sell suck. I won't buy those...except the ergonomic crescent wrenches, those rock. Also, their Welding gloves, for $2/set. Great for mig welding where you end up cooking the fingers of the gloves anyway.

What are your plans for the engine?

You have to look at everything you buy from harbor freight as a "KIT"...something containing most of the correct parts to build a useful tool. Almost none of their machine tools are ready to use out of the box. On the mini-lathe and mill that I bought, the instructions even stated that the machine should be disassembled, cleaned, reassembled and properly adjusted before use. For the money I save buying HF machinery, I don't mind spending half a day going through the thing making sure that it was made right.

Must've jammed the radar

I think 25% is a bit much for driveline losses, especially with a manual. I could be wrong. Did you forget the E-brake on while you were making your pulls? :biggrin: