Daeron

efi night owl or early bird? (hint: I did NOT just wake up, heh)

I will take your humor to mean that I didn't piss you off I just love firefox and never miss an opportunity to tout their excellent product, point taken.

Indeed it does, my friend... many thanks..

hate to nitpick, but Mozilla Firefox is a much much nicer web browser program than IE, AOL, Netscape, or any other I have ever tried.. and it has a built in spell checker, that highlights anything you type in a field like this one if it is misspelled.. makes life easier, and Jon was right about appearance; even though most of us know and respect your intelligence, there are "the others" out there who may use it as a poor excuse not to utilize your services. I'm just trying to point out the easy button.. I never spell check anything either, but Firefox does it for me, now. I wouldn't be so bold as to make the suggestion to someone here for themselves as a plain civilian, but you are doing this for a buck; it might help you out. Nice work on the manifold, BTW.. it isnt my thing, but it is CERTAINLY impressive, and as you said it was the customer's dollar. any idea what kind of color scheme the owner is going to go for?

wisdom seems to dictate that you nickel and dime your suspension and steering up to snuff. Visit the FAQ sub forum, and read through the hyperlinked table of contents. Check the stickies in all the sub forums that are appropriate to your vehicle, including electrical, fuel delivery etc.. read through all that and sponge up what you can. Make an appointment to read through it all again in a month when you have been reading about these cars for a while. By the time you read through them all the third time, between the constant reiteration of points deemed worthy of highlighting by the forum as a whole, and your daily reading of issues and questions that come up, you begin to get the idea. You've had a few rather well informed people give you rather well informed answers to your rather well informed (for a newb) questions, and I see you already taking them to heart and at face value; you should go a long way here.

Hey, half of my friends all moved to steamboat like, four years ago!! how old are you? Go to the bars much? If they know you, it would be as "the guys with shawn's old car" because for many years I drove my white 280 as my sole vehicle.. Know anyone who lived out there named Justin? Karen? Cassie? Candy? The first two have since moved back, but the latter two still live there.. Welcome to HyridZ, by the way.. heh...

I must reiterate at this point that yes, I do rather enjoy an emphatic exhaust note. Take my above comments with that grain of salt

I cannot disagree with your post at all, if anything I wrote either misled or failed to mention your statements the shortcoming was unintentional. As you said, the header is key. Unless the exhaust pulses are extracted from the cylinder head properly, the effect of everything downstream is muted. My point was simply that the loss of scavenge effect typically associated with a "true" twice pipe system is not present on the MSA piece. I have no evidence to back up the need for scavenging; I was relying on Katman's experience using the "true dual exhaust" as "proof" on that subject and nothing more. It would be nice to see a side-by-side dyno comparison.. but how many things can we say that about? My understanding was that the scavenging effect is one of the facets that an engine builder uses to determine the camshaft selection, and that it can be used to allow less overlap. With an unscavenging exhaust system, it is more important to waste a little intake charge to help flush all the exhaust out of the cylinder. However, I am being something of an armchair gearhead in making these statements. (Internet parrot may also be applicable, but it is far from mindless ) As for pipe diameter, if memory serves it is twin 1.75" pipes, possibly slightly larger. The Y-pipe in the photo above is ~2.75-3". The header I have to install is the MSA 3 into 2 into one header, so basically my exhaust will be cheap header, into header y pipe, into twice pipes y pipe (with a total single pipe length of about a foot) then back into the twin ~1.75" pipes, through twin cherry bombs, and out into twin chrome tips. The clearance issue of the MSA system was one that I was not aware of, since I haven't installed my system yet. It was a christmas gift received just after my car went out of commission, so I have only looked at it and not actually run it yet

For MY setup, (when/if) I was anticipating talking my uncle out of an airbox he had made for one of his roadster racecars that would essentially let me pipe an air filter in the stock location to feed the box on the TBs, but I have to check spacing and clearance.. the box in question has a base plate that attaches to the crabs just like a stock 240Z SU airbox, so I may be able to simple fabricate a base plate to fit on my two TBs that bolts to the box he already has. Helmholtz effect, what?

from what I have heard, the MSA twice pipes seems to accent the semi-high pitched, "brap" noise that the engine makes, which is why I chose it. The single pipe, "turbo" muffler exhaust system that MSA sells has a throatier quality to it thats sounds richer but less refined IMHO, than a Z ought to sound.. but its a matter of what you want not my humble opinion. Just to sum up my longish post above, the MSA twice pipes should have no performance detriment whatsoever.

it will probably be fired up before I get one made, so patience is not a problem here

oh yes oh yes oh yes!!! Thanks for the update, I was just hunting around on google last night for pictures of an SU manifold..... I cannot WAIT to hear how this sounds on an engine, I almost want to start building these for sale because I have the parts a plenty... Pete, you already know how enthusiastic about this idea *I* am... thanks again for the update the piece looks FANTASTIC, just what I had imagined. Anything not straightforward about doing the whole thing? Plans slowly come together regarding my own version of this manifold; I still cant get enough hours to make ends meet so "projects" have to wait indefinitely until "bills" are caught up

Man, MY car must be one of the fastest LOOKING Z's on HybridZ... click the link in my sig for a post with some pics, I won't disgrace the drawing thread with photos of a car in poor shape.

It isn't just you

I just... I just cant think of anything else to SAY about that!

are we talking about the sharp angularity in the picture of the second car, that distorts the reflection, running along the line of the door handle... or the line that runs just above the gas filler door?? I can't really tell that either "line" is diffused in the first picture. I THOUGHT we were talking the door handle line, but "that line is a major part of a Z" only really fits the "rump" shape line going above the gas door... ????

awesome link, thanks for the post!! This guy seems rather intelligent. I love it when people defy the impression they broadcast like that. Cheeseball factor FTW!

check the fuel supply line for clogs with compressed air? what was "almost enough" fuel pressure? have you tried running some seafoam or injector cleaner in the fuel?

just.. NO!!!! Star Trek or Star Wars?

I am going to point a couple of things out here... "twice pipes" is a term that typically indicates half of the cylinders using one exhaust pipe, and half using the other. This type of setup is not optimal for engine performance, as it eliminates (or severely hinders) the scavenging effect that one exhaust pulse has in pulling the next pulse out of the cylinder. If I am not mistaken, Katman, the system you used in your ITS car was a legitimate "twice pipes" setup just as described. If I am not mistaken, Mario's twice pipes setup is ALSO such a design. Madkaw, on the other hand, has a different "twice pipes" setup; as you can see in his first image there is an "x-pipe" where the entire system merges into one collector pipe, thus in effect "marrying" the two sets of three cylinders, and obtaining the desirded scavenging effect. I own an uninstalled MSA twice pipes system. They come as a complete exhaust set, ready to be mounted to a header. The "eshaust system" you buy begins with one common pipe, that gets immediately split into two pipes running back under your car. In other words, the MSA "twice pipes" setup is NOT a twice pipes setup in the strictest sense (at least, how I understand the definition) AND, it DOES have the scavenging effect that katman's setup (unless I am mistaken in my memory) was lacking. To the best of my knowledge, this lack of scavenging is the only performance issue inherent in a "twice pipes" setup, and the MSA system *should* bypass that issue.

if this was a gag post, it was very close... but you should have spelled it "timming"

Hugh: Thanks for the pic post!!! that much more knowledge and confidence to go at it myself, when the time comes.

I, too, have the same wheels on MY car.. and I hate em. Well, hate is a strong word, but my honest opinion is that they are one of the least attractive looking sets of wheels I have ever seen on a Z. They just seem to say "American Car" to me for some reason. I prefer the standard five slot mag.. which I know, makes no rational sense.. Slot mag, my favorite, A/R "spoke" mag, my least... whatever. No excuses given, I just don't like my wheels.

Not uptight.. just, a thread about a 10.3:1 compression motor with an aftermarket cam is a bad place to be the one sticking up for stock EFI on principle Good to feel comfortable going "toe to toe" with you guys on a subject that, six months ago, would have been totally over my head though.. My brain hasn't been firing this well since my one year in college, and I LOVE IT!!!