z-ya

Are you using the tach output from the MS, or the stock connection?

Paul, Looks like a cool project for sure. I wouldn't be concerned about some cylinders not getting boost as the intake is all connected at where the carb would be, so the entire manifoild will be pressurized. Maybe as the boost is initially increasing some cylinders will get boost before the others, but because a roots type SC builds boost extremely fast, I wouldn't be concerned. You can check with Eaton, but I be willing to bet that different snout lengths and pully shafts are available for that SC. There may even be some different length OEM ones that may fit your application better (Nissan Frontier, and others). I like the idea of having the SC inlet towards the rear. Can you get the inlet flange from the Jaguar? It might be easier to fabricate a TB adapter. I wish the Camden SC I was using had a rear inlet as it is difficult to route cool air to the downdrat TB I'm using. I'm assuming that you can machine that mounting bracket off the top of the SC. Probably helped stabilize the engine when it was in the Jag.

I just checked, and you are correct, stock thickness is around 1.25mm. I just ASSumed from the previous post that stock was 1.6mm. From what I know all stock and stock replacement (except FelPro, 1mm) are the same.

A stock L28 has a deck height of 0.030", so with less height (0.020"), you should be fine with a stock gasket (1.6mm). Also, a stock L24 with the E31 head has a deck height of 0.080", so even with the E31 head, you are OK.

You need a 3/8" NPT (national pipe thread). It's a standard pipe (tapered) thread. It seals as you tighten it. Be carefull not to over tighten these sensors as they will snap right off (done that). Also, don't go too deep with the tap. Start by taping 1/4 the way up the tap. Then try the sensor. You want to be sure that the sensor will seal before you run out of thread. I use teflon tape on the threads to ensure a good seal.

You nasically need to find someone who has used an optical distributor with MSII. I'm not sure how many people are using MSII with the 83' 280ZX distributor. The only MSII "Z" user I've seen used EDIS: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=114518 The only two settings I know are required are on the 'Ignition Settings' menu (output). Make sure to set 'Spark Output' to 'Going High (Inverted)'. Also, set 'Coil Charging Scheme' to 'Standard Coil Charge'. I'm not sure about the input side. Hear is a basic wiring diagram for the input an output circuit.

Using the LEngine calculator I did the following: L24 -> E88 head -> STD gasket = 8.76:1 STD gasket = 7.1 cc volume 1mm gasket = 5.7cc volume So if you subtract 5.7 from 7.1, you get 1.4. This approximates machining 1mm from the head, and using a stock head gasket. If you enter 1.4cc in the LEngine "Gasket CCs" box (hit return key), the CR changes to 9.73:1. If you use a 1mm gasket (enter 0 in the LEngine "Gasket CCs" box ), the CR ends up being 10.0:1. Paul, what are standard cam tower shim thicknesses? Do they make 1mm shims? If so, I would machine 1mm off, and use 1mm cam tower shims. Then you can run a stock head gasket and end up with a 9.73:1 CR. If you don't have any detonation problems, you can always run a metal 1mm gasket and have a 10:1 CR. I ran a 10:1 CR L28 (flat top, N47) in my track car for years running 93 octane northeast USA pump gas. Running a stock cam, I could only run 26 deg of advance. With a performance cam, I could have probably run quite a bit more timing. I was runnnig Megasquirt fuel injection too. Depending on how well the carburetor fuel curve matches the required fuel curve of the engine will determine how much advance you can run. With carbs, your kind of stuck, unlike EFI where you can tune those leans spots out.

Ron, I could mount it right in front of the TB (where we put the dyno air temp sensor), but I am not having any problems with it in the intake, so its staying where it is.

One other thing, did you use teflon tape on the IAT sensor threads? I did, and I used a fair amount as the person who originally threaded the hole for 3/8" NPT went a little too deep with the tap. From what I remember, Teflon is an excellent insulator, both electrically and thermally.

Great work Ron and Paul. I no idea that even the open air sensor would be effected so much my the temperature of the material it was threaded into. I wonder of there are other sensors available that are less effected by this problem. I am still confused as to why you are having this heat soaking problem, when I'm running the same setup, and I have no signs of it at all. Infact, the JCR intake manifold is less than 1/2" away from the header. I do have the header wrapped though. Still, the intake hits over 280deg F easily. Best thing to donow is move the sensor for a test. Can you explain in more detail what the circumstances are that cause oyur heat soaking problem?

Ron, Almost every time I drive my turbo car, I watch in real time (Wolf3D), the intake air temperature (IAT) change dramatically when the throttle plate opens. But the system takes time to respond. It will take seconds for the intake to cool, and the sensor also has a reaction time. The sensor does not heat soak, it varies electrical resistance with temperature, that's it. As long as the temperature is within the temperature operating range of the sensor (which it is), the temperature it reports (in the form of resistance) to the MS is accurate. A 144 deg F inlet temperature is actually quite cool (the graph is in degrees Fahrenheit, right?). If it was Celsius, that woudl be 291 degrees F. Like I said in a previous post, my track car runs temps that high without any heat soak problems. Paul, you are using an open air sensor, right? If you are using a coolant sensor for IAT, the heat of the intake can conduct into the sensor giving false readings.

Paul, Again, try to insulate the intake from the header, this should fix your problem. I'm not a big fan of dead end fuel rails in EFI applications. With the fuel rail in series with the fuel flow, you will always have cool fuel in the fuel rail. The only fuel that can possible heat up is the small amount in the injector. In race (WOT) type applicaitons, the fuel isn't in there for long.

The IAT sensor is an open air sensor, so it is already isolated conductively from the aluminum intake manifold. Paul, Is your fuel system connected like this: pump->fuel rail->regulator->tank It looks from the picture that the fuel rail is a dead end. If this is the case, vapor lock in the fuel rail is probably what is causing heat soak. Also, you are not running a heat shield with that intake manifold. I would either wrap your header, or put the stock intake manifold heat shield back on (or both). Yea, it doesn't look as pretty, but it sure is functional. Placing the IAT sensor somewhere else besides the intake manifold is just a band aid attempt to fix a heat soak problem. When air moving through the system, heat soak is not significant, so having the most accurate measurement of IAT will be in the intake manifold. If you located it somewhere ahead of the TB, the IAT compensation algorithm with not be be getting the actual IAT. Also, if you want the IAT compensation function to have any chance in minimizing a heat soak issue, it must know the temperature of the air in the intake manifold. On my supercharged car the IAT reaches 280F on the track, and I have no heat soak problems at all. The IAT sensor is in the manifold. I'm using a stock fuel rail (no dead end), and I wrapped the header. I can come off the track, wait 5 minutes, then start it back up without any symptoms of heat soak.

In theory, yes. If you do everything right the first time, it will just fire right up. But there is a fair amount of wiring, and most people are bound to make some mistakes. So plan on debug time. And also plan on dyno time.

The closer the IAT sensor is to the cylinder intake port, the more accurate the measurement. IFf you mount it upstream of the TB, the MS will get incorrect IAT sensor readings. Drill and tap a 3/8NPT hole in the intake manifold, and be done with it.

Very nice work. What engine managgement are you using? I like you surge tank, nice fabrication work! What is the thing that kind of looks like a C clamp along side the passenger side frame rail?

Tony, There is no need to mount the TB on the SC, as you sugested. I did it because there is was no way to come off the top of the SC with a resonably small radius tube, and clear the hood. It was easier to just mount the 2 barrel Jeep throttle body on top of the SC. Also, since the intake opening on the SC is rectangular, I though using the dual butterfly TB would distribute air more evenly across the SC impellers. Ken Jones used a SC with the inlet on the rear, and used the inlet tube from Stillen (used on the 350Z Stillen SC kit). It fit amazingly well, with plenty of room.

I like the GTP supercharger because it has provisions for a side draft throttle body. Making a cold air intake setup for the JCR kit will be a pain. I haven't figued out exactly what I will do about it. Right now I have some chicken wire over the TB to keep anything large from getting in there. Your best bet is to make an intake manifold for the GTP SC. Can you get the intake off the GTP? Between that and a 280Z intake, you might be able to fabricate something. The othe rissue is hood clearance. The JCR manifold tilts the SC way over to clear the hood. BTW, I believe Camden superchargers still has JCR intake manifolds. They aint cheap though. http://www.camdensuperchargers.com

Doing an air to air IC with style of SC is difficult. What does the SC you plan on using look like? Water injection is actually very easy, you just need to fill up the tank before each session. The car is very fast at the current tune. I pull way from 5.0L Mustangs on the straights (and in the turns for that matter). When I get the O2 injection running, and get a bit more agressive with the timing, I should be in the 270WHP range at the current boost level. FI, meaning fuel injection (programable). Don't try this with a carburetor.

I'm using a Chrysler OEM coil pack like Paul his on my SC L28. These coils shoot a 2" spark out of the boot to the plug. These days all OEM coils are fine for 99% of all street engines (including high output turbo applications). Your wasting your money on aftermarket coils when an OEM one woul work fine (spray paint them if you don't like the color). Any modern inductive coil will work with EDIS. EDIS is wasted spark, so for simplicity reasons you wouldn't run COP. Now you can try to parallel up two coils on each output and use COP coils. Not sure if the EDIS module will overheat. The MS does support COP, but not in the standard configuration. You will need to make modifications to the circuit board and harness to make it work. Not all that difficult, but you will soon run out of outputs and pins on the DB37 connector. So forget about using any of the other features in the Extra code (water inection, shift light, cooling fan, boost control, etc, etc.) because you won't have any CPU outputs or connectors pins to use them with COP. You can run 3 ignition outputs, each driving two igniters, but then you are just doing wasted spark with a bunch of wasted hardware. Bottom line, the COP looks sexy, but how much extra work and $ are you willing to put into COP for that "look". In most all applicaitons, there is no performance difference between COP and wasted spark.

If it is hydraulic, there are no valve lash adustments. There will not be a pivot point bolt and lock nut.

Why would anyone remote mount the coils when there is already a spot for them on the valve cover. Just for a pretty "Chevrolet" valve cover? Maybe he is running some very high ratio rocker arms that require a taller valve cover. Just makes it look cluttered.

I have a JCR SC (Camden) on my L28 race car, and so far I've got 255WHP out of it at 8psi. I'm running very conservative timing (20 deg at 8psi). Hear are the details: - F54 flat top block and pistons. - P79 head (round port 6:1 header) - 2mm Gasket (8:1 CR) - Comp Cams 280 dur, 460 lift cam - Intake and exhaust ports matched - Camden supercharger and JCR intake manifold - Megasquirt running Extra code v029 - Ford EDIS-6 ignition module - 36-1 crank wheel with VR sensor - Chrysler coil pack (uses GM HEI plug wire connectors) - Six 370cc/min Ford Thunderbird injectors - Stock ZX FPR Comming soon: - Water injection controlled by MS Dyno plot, bottom plot is before supercharger: My recommendations: - Use only a P79 or P90 head as these are less prone to detonation - Shoot for a max CR of 8.5:1 - Run water injection or some other form of intercooling - Run some sort of crank fired direct ingnition. - Fuel injection only for this application

Another applicable movie quote for the relationship between you and your MS installation: "What we have hear is a failure to comunicate"

That is a Vortec V8. roght? Why not use the stock coils that mount on the valve covers? The wires are super short with the stock GM coils. Are you going to run a carb? A big 4 barrel throttle body would lokk good on top of that manifold. Looks like you have plenty of room to weld injector bungs in the intake runners. too. 4 on each side, with two polished alumunum fuel rails.