AZGhost623

TBONE do you have an AFR gauge? It sounds like your jetting is off. The AFR gauge is key in figuring out whats going wrong (too lean or too rich)

Hey Leon, Yeah there big, not as big as Duraggs tho. I went up on the idle because of cruise on the freeway. With barely a pedal press, I was way lean, but WOT Im 12.8. So I think the main jet is good now on the freeway its not leaning out on cruise anymore, Im just trying to dial in the rest of it. The bigger pump jet also played a huge role too. I think I might need to go up further to get rid of that half second delay. I really wish I had another Z with triples to compare against to know where Im at. The 1/2 second delay is only from stop or slow cruise from what I remember. If I can get a good baseline, Ill check out the hypojets. At 20$+ a jet its an expensive learning curve and I want to make sure im right on the money.

Well I am super close. Im thinking maybe another size up on the pump jet and I'll be all set. Its kinda funny, there is a half second delay when full pedal press at stop, and then all hell breaks lose. WOT is still right around 13. But it will pin you in your seat like no other now. First time I have ever really experienced this. Hwy driving now the AFR is right around 13 as well now. Overall Im very close, but not sure I can fix that last problem. Not being in anyone elses Z (top-secret Duraggs car) I have nothing to really compare against to see how much better/worse off I am. If the grin factor plays a role followed by a holy shiz, then I think Im there. I did notice the car does NOT like stop and go traffic when its 110 out tonight. I was around the middle of the M on the stock temp gauge until I got going, then dropped down to onto the "E" in temp when moving on the freeway. 36 Choke 145 Main 180 Air 70F9 idle F3 Tube 55 Pump jet 00 Pump Bleed

Duragg may have some, he just went from DCOE 40's to 45's.

Have you closed up all your idle screws and did equal turns on all of them until it shows around 13 AFR? You shouldnt have to open them very much. The funny thing is I dont have a lean problem at stop to go, probably also why I dont have a problem at cruise on the street. I think Im pulling alot of vaccum when im driving on the freeway which is pulling in more air than what the idle can put out when in cruise. Bigger idle for sure, which Im waiting on, i have 65F9 and 70F9 coming my way for this weekend to try out. I also think the right ETUBE can help on that as well since the RPM is based around the TUBE for fuel delivery. The progression hole trick does work (i think from how it was on my previous head but it was pretty messed up), but now that my head is built right with these DCOE45's the idle RPM cant be adjusted when the butterflys are that far forward, 2000 rpm idle is just not cool with the set screw all the way out. Im pulling 7.5's across all carbs on the snail gauge sync tool at idle. Thats where the modification comes in to put in a 4th hole which im not sure how that affects the rest of the operation of the carb.

Something else Im curious about, duragg and i are running stock pump jets at 45 (as far as I know). Since this is mechanically driven by your foot and gives the extra squirt, im wondering if a larger pump jet would be more beneficial for that initial transition rather than drilling??

Duragg, with the head working correctly now, I run into a problem with excessive RPM if I try to do the progression / butterfly trick. So much so that I cant even set idle just like the problem you were having. I think that drill jig you got from Keith helped you? I would hate to make modifications like that because they are semi permanent... the butterfly is setup just right before the first progression hole. I can tweak that by adjusting the idle rpm. of course moving it past the first one its excessive rpm for idle. From what I have been reading, the F3 is very similar to the F11. It has all the same holes in the same places and same diameters. However, the only single difference is the F3 tube has a smaller orifice at the bottom by .5mm (7.5mm on F3 compared to 8mm on F11) Both F11 and F3 etubes are awesome at very high rpm but a little weak on transition. Now I have been researching and I hear that the F7 tube is great at low RPM quick pickups and slow acceleration including WOT, but not excessive high RPM. They have no air holes at the top only at the bottom. I have an F7 etube, but I haven't given it a go yet. The etubes only change the rpm range, and the rate (speed for lack of a better word) in which it affects the main circuit. A quick revving race motor has entirely different requirements than a slower reving street engine. Has anyone tried an F7 to know where it starts to lean out at in top RPM? Would love to know some F7 setups to start with.

My first long ride in the car, if you would call it that since the head repair. 10 miles out and back on the freeway this evening. street cruise with rpms at 1500 is real good on the afr right on at 13, but when the cruise rpm is 2500-3000 afr is off the charts way to lean. it definately loves high rpm, WOT on the freeway its still right on the money 12.5-13 all the way up to 6000 rpm very solid. I was scared too go above that lol... To fix this I need to go up in Idle size right? Idle jet controls the cruising idle right? DCOE 45 36 choke 145 main 180 air 60F9 F3 tube

Once I get my throttle return problem fixed, I'll play with it some more today. I bought three different kinds of springs from ACE, so ill see which works best. I do have a 140 main jet, but the air jet may need to be changed too. From previous testing it seems I can manipulate that main jet quite a bit by just changing the air jet around. Unfortunately the next size up that I have from the 180 air is 195 and 200. Dont have a 185 air jet. If I goto a bigger main jet those bigger air jets may help compensate and I have plenty of main jets. Looks like going through my inventory I do have a 165 air jet (smallest I got). I think I may have to go bigger main jet with bigger air jet to get the desired affect due to the parts I have. Or should I just get a 185 air jet and press my luck to see what happens? So many moving parts to this thing...

Those domes you mention, I have wondered, we have a very small wire colander in the kitchen, I am almost tempted to see if its the right size, I think it may be... Have you looked in your kitchen to see what you might have? Well after I had some head work done, and some other things... I think I finally found a good mix of parts. I have a lean stumble I need to work on, but otherwise, I think I got some pretty good results on its first drive tonight. at about 6000 rpm, the AFR was 15. I can probably come down on the air jet a bit, and get that cleaned up some, but for the most part its right in the sweet spot at 13 cruising, and up to 15 at WOT. My lean stumble I think can be fixed with the progression fix, but we will see... This is on a DCOE 152. Idle AFR is pretty fat at 11, might need to make it a bit fatter to see if that might help with the lean stumble from stop. With a P90 head, the thing I need to figure out is if I am limiting the head with the size choke. I may be under powering the head a bit. I dont know what the CFM is for the P90 head, and what the DCOE 152's with a 36 size choke CFM is. Anyone know this info? I assume a CAM also changes this quite drastically. With all the dynamics people change it might be hard to find that info out. My setup is a shave head .080 (10:1 compression), CAM .480 Lift 280 Duration, no other mods on head. 36 Choke 145 Main - may try 155 too 180 Air - may try 175 too 60F9 idle F3 Tube

LOL - She knows.... and her exact response was "you should have put a V8 in it" which is saying something because she likes to keep things in the same era. Its all good... hopefully this car doesnt continue its curse much longer.

Alright I am game... holy crap, i got you beat by a mile... yeah these are done. Verified with MSA they are in stock and should ship today. Ill have them before the weekend. Learned something new today. Thanks Tony!

Yeah, this "vendor" did a lot of things which I dont know why he did. When I called him out on it, its all apart of his secret sauce. Its my impression that the bolts got reused (definately not new) and possibly over torqued. After the second one snapped I inspected them all and some were pitted and "rough" rather than a smooth bolt. There were two spacers under all the springs, cam was retarded quite a bit for TDC. Some of the valves were not the same lengths as others and some of the springs were very worn to the point it wasnt safe using them according to the machinist. It was an extremely poor build, I guess thats what you get for 2800$ shortcuts.... In one way I am glad I had problems to find these things and get them corrected. now. When the rockers all fell off that day I should have pulled the head and had someone go through it to make sure it was all ok. I hope to have this all put back together this weekend if MSA has the parts. I think I may only torque to 55-57ft lbs to be safe since Tony's comments above saying lubrication aftects the final torque down.

Hey Tony, How do you calculate the new required torque when you use anti-seize? Apparently I have been doing it wrong my whole life if thats the case. Apply anti-seize and torque to spec. Should I just account for 1-5 less ft lbs when torquing it?

Ordered from MSA a complete set for 90$. It shows they were instock, so hopefully they have it. Won't know until tomorrow if they call me to say they don't have it. Ill look into the ARP's if thats the case. Used anti-seize on all of em when I put them back in. After inspecting some, some are definitely pitted. Now that you mention it, they might have been over torqued. I had to use a breaker bar to get them out. Where as when I torqued them in at 60lbs they were still relatively easy to get out without the need for a breaker bar. It was a rebuilt engine out of CA with less than 50 miles on it so they weren't seized into the block. Ill never be buying stuff from this guy again... On a side note, there seems to be two flavors of head gaskets with Felpros, 21157PT1 and 8799PT. Anyone know the difference other than price?

Snapped two head bolts putting my head back on. Its a P90A head, that was shaved .080. It was shaved prior to it coming off, and Im just reusing the existing bolts. Torquing them down to 60 ft lbs per spec. I find it very unusual that they snapped. Granted they were used, and put through what unknown conditions, is it possible that they were just worn? They do not look like they have been modified or cut shorter for the modified head. Is this needed? I ordered a brand new set from MSA today, so I can try again next weekend. Maybe an extra washer to raise them up a bit incase its bottoming out causing the snap? I did blow out the holes with some compressed air as well. Suggestions?

Man Im super interested in that throttle cable setup. I have been looking for a decent setup and a how to for some time. I may be asking you some questions later

Just an FYI - as someone who has a Datsun Parts Engine, the Stroker setup he sells goes for about 5-6k and of course all kinds of options to make the price go up. He doesn't do any of the build work, its all outsourced to some shop. My guess is "R Rated Motorsports". Unfortunately I have had problems and had to tear the head off. For whatever reason my CAM was retarded quite a bit, and there was other "oddities" as well that he says is part of his special mix of performance that has come with my discovery... So while I agree the STOCK EFI on this is definitely a major hold up, dont be surprised if there is some other odd ness in there that you might not know about.

The Mustang BOSS 302 Crate engine is about 10k - puts out 444hp and 380lb ft torque (unmodified). Duragg's 240 kept up with a Mustang Boss 302 the entire time at the track, enough so that the owner came over and hit us up after the race. Its all aluminum design as well. It got the wheels spinning to put that 5.0L 302 into his 240 LOL...

Thanks Jeff For whatever reason doing some homework on these cam spec's looks like most lobe centers for cars that are carb'd is 107 (ish). The lobe center for EFI seems to be around 112 like you said? Im not sure exactly what the lobe center does or how that contributes? Yes, a streetcar primarily, weekend warrior, and occasional overnight trip type thing out of town. It will have some possible track use on occasion with HPDE and NASA.

Due to a problem with my P90 head, its getting fixed due to a bad gas incident a month ago resulting in a bent valve and leaving #5 with 0 psi on a compression test. While its there I am having the cam go through a regrind to what he thinks will be a good setup for what im looking for (mild, good street setup). He said it will give a lumpy idle, and strong pull all the way up to 7000 rpm. He is a local builder and this is a spec he uses on carb'd engines. Any thoughts? 280 duration .480 lift 106 lobe center Valve Timing: Intake: .010 lift opens at 31* BTDC closes 31* ATDC (62* overlap) Exhaust: .010 lift closes at 69* ATDC / opens 69* BBDC

I did check the valve settings and this is what I came up with which are all wrong. They were all set right when we had done the rocker fix the first time. valve settings: #1= I .008 / E .008 #2= I .009 / E .009 #3= I .009 / E .008 #4= I .009 / E .008 #5= I .008 / E .012 #6= I .008 / E .008 Ive seen the block of wood in youtube videos... Found the tool on amazon for 6$ I need to increase my specialty tools

some more woes, and Im super angry at the shop my car was at more than ever now. Previously some how "bad gas" got into the car while outside of my care, and gummed up some valves that caused the rockers to fall off. Noticed #5 was real slow going up and down when we got the rocker reattached, but eventually started working right after I played with it a bit. Got that fixed a while ago and have been working on getting my DCOE's running right but something has been very odd. To the advice of a friend of mine, I compression checked the engine and got the following values: #1=200 psi #2=160 psi #3=210 psi #4=190 psi #5=0 psi #6=205psi With some shop air, further testing has lead me to believe bent intake valves on #2 and #5. Have never pulled the head before on a Z. I have heard that the main thing to worry about is the timing chain tensioner. Do I just stuff a bunch of rags down there to keep tension so I can pull the head? I plan on finding TDC before the head is pulled and then mark everything on the cam sprocket and timing chain so I can line everything back up properly after it comes back from a shop. What's the best advice you can give me on this project, am I on the right track?

I dont agree with that statement. The linkage is an extremely important part to the operation of the effectiveness of the carbs. If you got slop in your linkage its going to make your entire system not run right. Do you know what they use, or where they bought said cable system? I am extremely curious on how this is setup/works.

I fixed it, looks right now. I seriously think there has to be a better setup for the linkage. Its crap, so much play in it. I did a good search and found some fantastic cable setups people have done, but cant find out where they got the parts or how they did it. I have seen some of the cable parts for sale, but it seems to be just for one carb not a set of triples. I would also be curious as to how/where people are mounting their return spring. I think I found a place last night that may work, but im not too keen on it right now ...