AZGhost623

So met with Wheel Specialists out in Tempe, AZ. They are a extremely highend wheel shop. My lowly Z was among Bentleys, Porsches, and Lambo's for a few hours while they took measurements off the car, and wheel. They took the tire off and checked out the wheel. Apparently its an old school 'sandwhich' style 3 piece wheel. No one makes these wheels anymore like this they said. They are held together by epoxy, not welded. The shop quoted me 3800$ to rebarrel the two wheels IF, HRE can still provide a sandwich style barrel in 17". They do seem to want to work with me...they are going to call around next week and see what they can come up with. They are going to see if an Asanti or Lexani barrel will work instead of an HRE barrel. They are also going to call a place that they know of that does generic barrels, but they are still trying to keep to a sandwich style, which may be impossible to find since this is an early 90's wheel. What they couldn't answer/tell me is why I have found 17" barrels in various sizes ranging from 150-250$ online and said they fit the HRE bolt pattern. You take the face off the current wheel, and bolt it onto the new barrel, and weld it together. Whats the big deal? Anyone know? The said it wont work because its a sandwich style now. If the face bolts to the barrel, and if the bolt pattern is right, why does it matter? I was expecting something like $1500 for both wheels not 4k.. Their lead machinist said they could just flip the face around, and then polish the inside of the barrel. It would give me a 4" lip instead of the 10" lip it has now on the rear. The Front wheels have a 5.25" lip, so it may look weird with the front having a bigger lip than the rears and then I lose the coolness factor of the huge lip. It would be about 500$ for both wheels. So far until I hear back from them, my choices are: 1. Send rear hubs to Silverminemotors.com to redo the rear hub to 5x114, negating adapter, run wheel as is, extending 3" over the fender flare. 2. Flip the face around on rear and polish the inside of the barrel 3. Pay 4k to have the wheels rebarreled IF HRE still sells this style (not sure this is really an option, HRE sells brand new wheels for 2k each now!) 4. Sell wheels and keep looking (wheel couture has expressed interest in my wheels) 5. find another shop to talk to for 2nd opinion, which would be out of state at this point 6. Hope Wheel Specialists can pull a rabbit out of their hat next week Wait on #6, but I think option #1 is my best bet so far.

Mocked things up today. Im in love with these flares... they will fit perfectly when they get bolted into position and compliment the existing lines just right. The backspace on these wheels is 2.25", so very close to the wheel hub. With the adapter, it pushes the wheels out pretty far. The front wheels barely fit under the flares and wont need any modifications, the rears, is a whole other game. Despite my friends saying roll with it, im going to get them changed. From the edge of the center of the flare to the outside of the tire, its 5" over. So I think at this point I have two options. Rebarrell the rears (maybe a 17x12? and/or change backspace / will need to figure out how much I can go before rubbing suspension parts). Second option redo the rear hubs on car to a 5x114 eliminating adapters (silvermine motors 180$) gaining me 2" which still wont fit under the flare, but the center of the tire will be under the car at that point. Currently the center of the tire isnt even under the car, which I dont think is very safe. The adapters are super high quality and despite what they look like, are very light.

Yes... I went looking for negative offset wheels first. I wasnt planning on going this big, but there was an opportunity for some great vintage wheels and I decided to go ahead with it. Once the wheels, then I needed to find the flares, and from what I could find the Works flares out of Japan were the biggest flares you could get other than IMSA or YZ complete fender replacement. I measured them out, the flares are really wide at the bottom and taper back. The front flares measure 11" from bottom corner straight across. The rear flares from bottom corner across measure out 10". The material is FRP. Front Flare: http://i.imgur.com/vAy20XM.jpg Rear flare: http://i.imgur.com/bfJGe53.jpg I think because they are so wide in the front it might help conceal it a bit. From the side you wont notice so much, but looking from the rear of the car, may look odd. With the front flares being the widest in the front, Im more concerned about them not fitting right than the rear since the fronts wheels are only 10.5" wide (that spacer may help here a lot). I am a little bit concerned about the rears and that 2" adapter, but I could always adapt the hub later which would then get rid of that. Another thing is about a 3 piece wheel is that they can be re-barrelled to almost any size you want.... there isnt many choices in tires for 17x14... only 2 road tires, Michelin Pilot Sport 2's, and Pirelli PZero's. The few others are race car tires (Hoosiers and Kuhmos) Kuhmo Ecsta XS is whats on the rear's now.

Finally got the flares in today. They measured at the top 5.5" wide in rear, and oddly 5.75" wide in front. The front flares have a cutout for the marker light, so I know I was looking at the front flares. The rear flares has a grove to follow the body line at the kickpanel. http://i.imgur.com/nWsMbBT.jpg Custom wheel adapters being made here in town to go from 4x114.3 to 5x114.3. They said 1 to 2 days. Had to measure the wheel bore on the new wheels before they could start.

I agree... I just figured it was parasitic loss in the drive train.... hence the question...

Yeah, I took the filters off. I plan on getting those mesh ones you have to not restrict airflow. Between my new tires, flares, and dyno time, Im capped out for the year, so Ill get those next year to make sure they are protected. Here is the chassis dyno sheet from the other day. They use dynapack which bolts to the rear hubs, its not a roller setup. http://i.imgur.com/vqmYpfw.jpg According to the sheet from Rebello, it was standard ignition with DCOE 45's, 1 5/8's Pace Setter headers. Not sure on his intake manifold, but I run a Kameari intake manifold. My ignition is a CAS setup with Electromotive and the DCOE 45's and the MSA 6-2-1 headers 2.5". I also have a 10lb flywheel. Rebello had peak torque at 5200 rpm with 264.5. My peak torque is 195 @ 5398 rpm. My build is documented elsewhere here with him, but it was 2500$ worth of headwork, his 63DI cam, and about 3000$ of block work with cast pistons and the 240z rods. Maybe the tunning shop left a brake on I dunno LOL... but like Duragg said, its on par with 'loss' on his setup...

Spent all day at the Dyno shop on 12/22/14, but ran out of parts to keep testing. They were very thorough, except when it came to testing emulsion tubes. They immediately took out my F7 and replaced it with an F11. Must be the goto tube or something. They plugged right into my O2 sensor on my exhaust for AFR readings on their computer. They rebalanced my carbs, and set ignition timing and my rev limiter as well. So this is where we ended up. Which is not too great but works for now (I did yield 214hp). Mid range is definately a lot more punchy now. Instant pulls from any gear when rolling. Freeway driving Im at 3000 rpm due to my gearing so Im at the start of the sweet spot. Stop light starts, not soo good. You want your AFR (right side on 2nd picture) to be as flat as possible around 13. You can see I now start off really lean (which I noticed driving home in stop/go traffic on the freeway). Midrange is a tad rich now, with high end being about where it needs to be. The shop recommended to go with a bigger choke and bigger main jet and see what happens, but as Leon pointed out, thats just going to cause my low end rpm range to be even worse. So I may try and switch out to F7's again since they were a bit rich and see what shows up. Maybe a bigger pump jet to bring that initial in? Unfortunately I did NOT get a dyno sheet that showed what my car produced when they first tested it. All I got was final results. So to sum up... I need to gain 1 to 1.5 points in my mid range, and bring in my low end as well. Thoughts? Suggestions? it also would be helpful for me to find a cheap datalogger for this AEM UEGO AFR setup I have. 38 Choke 145 Main 165 AC 65F9 F11 0 bleeds 45 pump jet

Got it.... apologies... this kinda got off topic with all the HP talk... I guess the road and track will be the best course of determination on where I lay with HP. As far as reclaiming parasitic loss, the CV axle replacement seems to be the best bet so far.

Sure, but you still have drive train loss... I just didnt expect 27%ish... which leads me to believe that it wasnt 297 to begin with, but more like 260 or something at the flywheel. Ive been told 20% is a good number to go by which would put it in the neighborhood of 256ish at the flywheel from my dyno. Like I said, overall Im very happy with this engine, love the sound it makes, I get lots of smiles per mile in this thing. Reclaiming some of that parasitic loss would be where I start next. Ill start off with the CV axles and see where I end up.

Well I had my car dyno'd to have it properly set up the other day since getting the Rebello engine back from Dave. His dyno showed 297 with his intake, carbs, and ignition system. All day dyno yesterday on dynapacks ended the day with 214. A bit lower than I expected, about 27% loss. I get what Leon is saying, that no two dynos are the same, but I figured they should be somewhat close in regards to what they do... I just didnt expect that high of loss. As far as racing goes, I do plan to do the HPDE class next month with NASA when they start back up. But that will be as far as I go. Dont plan on changing engines, very happy with the L28 in this car otherwise.

how much parasitic loss can be expected from engine dyno to car dyno? Is there a norm? 20% 25%? 27% 30% ? I read somewhere TonyD stated just changing out the rear axles to the Porsche CV's you gain quite a bit back (I dont remember what he claimed but it was a solid x% every time). What else can be done to reclaim some of that parasitic loss from the drive train?

dear god those konis are expensive, 430$ a piece?? Hopefully you found a deal somewhere...

Right now I run 16x8's 0 offset all around on Tokico Illuminas which dropped the car about 2.5". I run 225/55/R16/W without any modifications at all. No problems. Tires are Yokohama S.Drive

Im curious how you found that I've always wondered where my 2001 Frontier went, hopefully not to Syria LOL

I need 4x114.3 to 5x114.3... man those guys are cheap... makes me wonder... Getting some made here locally from www.airbagit.com at 99$ a piece, completely hubcentric

Calling around, drilling the wheels aren't going to work. I found a local business here in town that will make the wheel adapters for me. They need both the wheelbore and centerbore measurements to keep things hubcentric. Based on this setup the adapter is going to have to be 2" which is going to push these things out even more... http://www.wheelfitment.eu/car/Datsun/280Z%20%281975%20-%201978%29/ says the centerbore is 73.1mm for a 280z. Can anyone confirm?

Good ideas I didnt think of. I think I was hooked on spacers because thats what people seem to do from what I have read a majority of the time. If I can get away without running a spacer, thats definately better in my opinion. The backs are flat, so they could be drilled possibly. Ill have to start searching around. Maybe Ill call a tire/wheel house here in town and see if they can recommend someone.

I would need to buy new rotors, which I am currently not looking to do. I spent a pretty penny on some slotted/drilled rotors 2 years ago and dont want to change them out.. Its a means to an end right now with the spacers. Perhaps they could be drilled hmmm? Looks like the stub axles on silverminemotors would run me 720$ to convert where as the spacers would run about 400$

OK, I pulled the trigger on them. Should be interesting once I get them setup. Vintage HRE 505's. 17x10.5 with 275/40/17 up front and 17x14 with 335/35/17 in the rear on KUMHO's for 1800$ I think I got a pretty good deal especially since they have tires on them about 75% tread left on them. Now I need to find 4x114.3 to 5x114.3 adapters. Anyone got a good source where I can change the bolt pattern? I am running Tokico Illumina's. It did drop the ride height about 2" or so when it was put in. Hopefully I wont have to raise it up any. I am still waiting on the flares still come in out of Japan (currently being made). They look very similar to your picture... The only person I know on Hybridz who has these flares is STIVVA Heres some pictures on his car. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/87272-post-pics-of-your-zs-here/?p=1126558

Good to know ... thanks!

These might be too big, but anyone know if 17x14 rear, and 17x10.5 front will work? I understand the amount of sheet metal that needs to be cut out, but my concern is up front with that wide of a tire. These wheels have a -52 offset, and I would need a 1" spacer to change the bolt pattern to a 5x114.3. 335/35/17 wheels are on the rears, dont know the size up front, but probably not too far off on that. I have Marugen Shokai flares coming, that I am adding onto the car, and need to fill them out. They are coming off a wide body Supra with no spacers... I assume the suspension geometry is also going to change significantly with these kind of tires on? Will adjustable LCA's be needed up front and rear?

check out technotoytuning.com if you havent already.

Im looking for a negative offset. I already have some zero offset wheels on the car today running 16x8's. If you have some negative offset ones, I would be interested in seeing what you have. Otherwise, Ill pass... thanks!

i need some better pictures of the wheels...

What wheels are you running with it? Are you going to need spacers? What size? Details Details