Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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Why are EFI and Triple Two Barrel Throttle Bodies mutually exclusive?
Why not Triple EFI Throttle Bodies?
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In Japan, for the streetlight racers I would slip the cam one tooth and give the cars back to the guys who would come back RAVING about how GREAT and POWERFUL the car was after the modification.
They had no clue how to drive, they just wanted a car that hunkered down and went when they mashed the pedal at 2000rpms in fourth gear...
Which is what the thread was about, and it's already mentioned clearly that the engine will be 'all in' by 5500rpms. Flat on it's face, just like those slipped-cam-jobs I did back in the 80's.
Some people don't run at 7000rpm engine. Some people don't want/need it. Some people would prefer a lower rpm bias in the torque curve.
And that seems to be what this thread was about, and the ways to go after that effect.
More compression would help as well.
Frankly, watching most people daily drive their Z's I'm of the opinion that I could swap a BMW Diesel or even a Golf TDI in there and nobody would be the wiser: shifting at 3000 because 'they don't want to strain the engine', shifting up at 4000 or 4500 when they are 'really going for it'...
I've said it before, some people are diseased. Is it the low rpm or the high rpm set? I say both, and n'er will they reconcile.
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Kinda like that, but in the end, all silvery and no waves or weldmark visible, apparently you have about as much patience with body work as I do...LOL
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SSS Motors were not really known for grunt, either...
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Just because someone is a "Z-Guy" doesn't at the same time preclued the fact he may be a total idiot.
THe "Principle" I was referring to was his blatant lie about the parts being "RARE JDM"---that's a full crock of B.S. and I'll stand by it.
Too bad I'm in Morocco now, I hate lying hucksters that use puffery to take in the ignorant. Apparently he finds nothing wrong with his description of the item. That's really sad. But anything to make a buck, huh? Whatever you got to do to move the iron.
Since you gave him a 'heads up' and he's not changed the ad one iota, I guess that informed consent is not on his list of priorities to prospective clients. Welcome to e-bay.
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Nissan, Too used the Goo.
Techline Coatings may have something in a 'sample' they could send your way. They have offices in Murietta CA (Temecula) and Texas as I recall.
They make rotor coatings that are semi-abradable for blower rotors. And they can be applied and cured fairly easily. That may work as well. But if you can get the same stuff the OEMs' use...
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The L20ET injectors are the same injectors as L28E injectors...same terminal horsepower and torque figures. (Green Tops?)
I swapped the injectors, L28 Long Block, and L20 P-Manifold into a 1977 Fairlady Z---the EFI components with the exception of the Manifold and Injectors remained unchanged. I fueld the L28 using the L20E AFM and L20E ECU that was resident in the vehicle without changing them in any way. This may be why it was so responsive down low as the L20E AFM would be like an L28 AFM with the flapper spring unwound---follow? Really sensitive to airflow changes, and goes to preprogrammed fueling well before the normal 3500 rpms in the big AFM'd cars.
As long as the injectors are sized properly for the engine, the pulsewidths Nissan Used in Open Loop Systems (no O2 Sensor) are remarkably consistent. Let's not even go down that road. Doing it now it would be Megasquirted!
As for runner measurements, nope, never did. The L20 Manifold was visibly smaller diameter than the N42 head Intake ports that were on the engine. Dinky is a good way to describe them.
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I don't know about the small valve heads on an L28.
I think some of the effect is from that step helping prevent reversion at the lower rpms with the stock cam (what there is of it anyway).
The chamber design would help with compression, making the bottom end punchier as well. If the quench was set up properly it would be detonation resistant... hmmmmmm...
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With the availability of the large-bore (60mm+) SU's the 'need' for the flow a triple SU would give really is negated. Lots of complexity for minimal gain compared to a simple alternative, IMO.
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Oooh, been looking for those! Oneset of 8 on the way to me now from Summitt Racing for only $129. Pricey, but not that much. I wanted the SS versions for a project I had in mind, but didn't know anybody made them. The other mounts on that page may come in handy for my SU project. May order one or two for that testing as well...
Thanks for the link.
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What's 0.125" divided by 6? Equivalent to about a 0.020" hole in each throttle plate. Assuming total circumfrential seal.
Now, take the diametrical distance to find circumfrence and divide that legnth into 0.020" and you start seeing where Accurate Injection gets his data about less than 0.002" being too much on a 45mm bore!
There is a BIG difference between breathing through ONE plate, and SIX!
I cracked my dual SU plates less than the 0.003 mentioned to get my idle speed correct. I could have drilled a hole in the throttle plates, but since I didn't have any spares and didn't want to JB Weld any mistakes I defaulted to throttle position instead of a hole. I figures something on the order of 1/16" in each of the two plates would be more than enough with throttle angle being used to 'trim up' to the final idle speed during synch.
But that's only two plates, not six!
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Yeah, that's what I was getting at: the way it was explained to me the ECU will watch firing events in each bank, and look for the corresponding spikes in O2 in the exhaust. If it read 6 spikes when it is registered to only be reading three...then I'm betting it throws a code due to a disparity to it's RPM -vs- Sensed Input. The rpm input shows say 1000 rpms, and due to the pulses of the O2 sensor being exposed to all six pulses in the collector would be returning spikes corresponding to 2000 rpms (2X what is 'should' be seeing.)
I'm sure it's just some BIN or HEX hacking like JeffP and Bernard have been doing....but if you change that, it's just one thing that's reading it. What else will have to be redone or tweaked to keep working?
I know what you are saying HM, I had to go audit a distributor where there were 13 Element Failures in a year. All the same frame machine, all the same element. All failed by some idiot over-using RTV and having it exude out the oil injector nozzle that sprayed on the internal gears and bearings.
Curiously, the failures corresponded to a former Direct Technician getting canned and going to work....guess where? We always called him 'RTV-Dan'... Birds don't change their spots.
Another time, a distributor 'failed' 13 elements in short order, but on four different units. Each failed just inside the warranty period, but because they were tracked separately nobody ever picked it up but me...
When I went in to Audit the Distributor, I found 5# of rust inside each of the machines intercoolers. The rust was passing through the second stage and failing them prematurely. Simple failure to follow the standard work procedures was directly to blame---their tech (same guy each time) was flat-rating the job and never doing the simple cleaning I did.
When I quit there, they lost 2.2 Million in service work the first year. But I was the 'bad guy' for leaving and taking the work with me!
Seems customers knew who did the work the right way...the FIRST time!
Each of my subsequent 'replacements' has been a resounding bozo which the customers hated. Poor them. Too bad, huh?
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Spline drive is for sure Turbo Application--either running a Megasquirt or the Turbo stuff will work with that dizzy.
The Turbo distributors only gave a signal for the ECU to determine sparking interval, with the Ignitor on the coil determining dwell. It was not a direct input. The ECU was an intermediary tp delay the spark signal for the next cylinder in the firing order to enable a 'spark advance feature'.
The L28E had a self-contained dizzy, with the E12-80 ignitor handling dwell and spark directly off the reluctor trigger inside the dizzy. The advance function was accomplished by altering the phase angle of the breaker plate using a vacuum cannsiter and advance weights which will move it relative to the fixed reluctor's trigger wheel on the center spindle.
Different animals altogether! Good news is changing from on to another is easily accomplished in the L-Series. Aside from the drive spindle, all the 'other' L6 dizzies are interchangable...
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Moving it towards the center of the car (at least equidistant between the wheels) helps handling compared to loading it up high where the battery formerly was... Or worse, out where the EVAP cannister would be on a 260 or 280Z.
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In the 'old days' the HF 1 Quart Siphon Gun was a direct knockoff of a Binks #7. I swapped Binks fluid tips onto the HF body for fine work, and left the HF heads on when spraying primers and anything that was catalyzing and could plug them up.
For primers, I haven't shot anything but HF guns for years now simply because for the price it's almost worth it if you get a little slow on the cleanup and it get's plugged up...
For topcoat I still have one original HF Gun with Binks Tips circa 1985, my Binks, two Iwatas, and now a gravity feed HF Gun that I really like for door jambs since paranoia about not being able to get parts for my Iwata here makes me reluctant to use it on anything catalyzed.
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Oh, well you're still ahead in that you don't need a phase converter. I got mine for what I will say is an 'equivalent' of $200 since I picked up four pieces of shop stuff for $800 total. Plus something I didn't want/need but sprprisingly my wife got all stoked that I had some (Pallet Racking and mezzanine). What I wanted was their Lathe, the Jib Crane, and the Trinco Bead Blaster. I neded up having to take their Bridgeport and the 20X24 Mezzanine/Pallet Racking as well in the deal because they wanted it all gone: "All or Nothing for that price, Bub!" I went with "All".
Pricing this stuff afterwards, I'm finding the parts are actually pretty smokin' deals. And since I know the provenance through the past two owners they are not something the Police will come asking me about, either! (A PLUS!!!)
Now to sell off the Bridgeport. One of those, I got! (And still haven't hooked up---that phase converter thing!) Ran the conduit, just need the wires and converter now and I'm ready to go machining crazy.
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Like mentioned, the post catalyst O2 sensors aren't the issue.
It's the dual O2's BEFORE the catalysts that adjust fuel mixture, and how the ECU reconciles the signals given from each bank and adjusts accordingly that may be the issue.
This is why JeffP selected the single O2 sensor version. Sure, it's Consult and not OBD2, but will it really make that much difference in practical application?
Now, if you were fitting a GM ECU to the inline Nissan, I'd go for the OBD2 boxes, they have very sophisticated self-tuning subroutines and are already thoroughly aftermarket cracked for any adjustments you would care to want to make!
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You need to forget about rear view mirrors and put the cash into more speed. Then you'll have no need to see behind you at all.
You forget what crowd you're addressing. As fast as you think you may be, there is ALWAYS someone faster. And you need to yield right to let them pass! (Or left, in Alan's case!)
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They wouldn't give an interim pair of corrective lenses in the meantime?
Strange in the land of fruit and nuts.
Well, at least you know what or where you stand. Sucks to have to wait for some healing to go back in again though.
They are doing this under warranty right? Ask for some discount on the bill. Laugh when you say it so they don't get mad, but put it in his mind that 'compensation' should be in the back of their mind. Something for not hitting it for at least a single on the first attempt.
Keep us updated.
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Cast a filler neck! Muahahahaha!
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Oh, I'm sure spoofing the rear O2's is the way to go...
the real question is about the pre-cat O2 sensors. It's fine for a header system if someone wanted to separate the L engine into 'two banks of three' but for a turbo application, short of Twins... it may be difficult to reconcile the twin O2's in the circuitry if they get a bleedover pulse that doesn't jibe with the rpm indicated for operation---false spike for cylinder firing---am I making any sense in what I'm trying to say?
At least with JP and Bernard, the single O2 box seems to be more (er...) in-line with the requirements of the L-Engine...I don't believe there is as much spoofing of signals as you would think. Drive the cam position sensor off the old dizzy drive and you're most of the way there with a pre-made housing from an old ZXT. Jeff mentioned several models he looked into where their camshaft or crankshaft sensors rotated the same way as the OEM 280ZXT dizzy arrangement, so they were 'the easy ones to use' (his definition of easy, not mine!)
BWAHAHAHAHA!
Seriously, though...
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I wonder how that works when the bayonet is engaged? Perhaps the valve is a 'suction/vacuum break' that is activated when the bayonet is being removed from the filler neck allowing for easy removal of the cap. While fully engaged on the filler neck--perhaps it's sealed. That would make sense. In the 240 with the flat filler neck there was a 'woosh' when the cap was disengaged---the reason the neck sucked down was they had plugged the EVAP line up front. The Vacuum Break Theory sounds like the explanation that would be most plausible in that case. I always assumed it was air rushing past the outer rubber section of the cap, but an internal relief would make sense.
Pull a filler neck and check engaged and disengaged moveability of the center flap, Derek! LOL
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Just watch what lubricants you use in your compressor when using plastic piping. Some plastics are incompatible with PAG or PAO compressor oils, and if you start sending oil down the line they can crack, or catastrophically fail under pressure. Same goes for polycarbonate bowls on FRL units.
If you have good filters on the main pressure vessel leading out to the system and service them religiously the plastic piping should be fine as long as you keep it out of sunlight. The Legris Company makes a line of fittings for HDPE (Polyethelyene) piping and tubing for use in Pneumatic systems that is very nice, and compatible via all sorts of threaded end adapters.
A suitable compromise is like Dr hunt recommends: Run your main header of a large diameter properly sloped for drainage metallic pipe of 1" diameter, with multiple taps out of the TOP of the pipe each with a ball valve to isolate it. Connect that with your main pressure vessel via a flexible bellows or Aeroquip line.
Then run all you sub circuits with the plastic piping. Ideally you would regulate down to work pressure from a SEALED source of supply, that way any leaks are at lower pressure and cost you less air loss over time.
I could go on and on about this stuff.... There are cool aluminum QD piping available now from I-R (Simplair) as well as others that make plumbing a system fast and leak free.
http://www.transairaluminumpipe.com/?gclid=CLumx6S5m5gCFQkzawodbgmXmA
http://www.copelandindustries.com/products/SimplAirSLbrochure.pdf.pdf
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Sounds like HF has some management issues.
Absolutey not! It's a pricing game. Most here probably catch these kind of things. But Joe Sixpack (er...for instance my brother) going out to buy a tool set because they are going to do some weekend work on the car will see the price on the glossy pages and buy it for $10 more than what it's listed on pulp page 68 of their catalog.
Get enough people doing that, and you have a nice profit. All because someone didn't take the time to look closely.
It's the old 'concentration' game. "Where did I see that thing before?" You think you saw the Caliper elsewhere, but for a cheaper price. Most people assume it's GOT to be a different item, because of the different price. But then you realize the SKU prefix is identical and the suffix changes according to price. It's actually a very sophisticated way to track where someone is picking up information from before they buy.
It's like buying Crescent Wrenches from Sears: You can buy the 3 wrench set containing an 8, 10 & 12" wrench for $19.99, but the individual 12" Lists full retail for $23.00. Joe Sixpack goes in needing a 12" Crescent, and thinks "I don't need no three wrenches" so walks right past them, never checking the price. Picks up that 12" and heads to the checkout, never knowing that he just lost two other Crescents in the deal! (Again, with the same part number on each handle!!!)
I haven't bought a single Crescent Wrench from Sears in years, and even then my kid and wife manage to make off with those 8 & 10" wrenches like they are popcorn at a theater!
Small port heads.
in Nissan L6 Forum
Posted
The smaller ports enhance that low end, though. And I think that is what he was going for---if you were to bump the compression, optimize cam timing, and use a stepped manifold on a fairly stock head (basically the right combination of inexpensive stock parts) you could make an engine that was very thrifty when driven in the described manner, and probably make for a nice mill in front of an (eck) automatic transmission! Even with a stick, it would be a nice driver around town.
Me? I'm just putting an LD28 in the damn thing with A/C and the Autobox for commuter duties...
I like em stump pullers, or screamers. A Man of Extremes. I don't go for a lot of this middle-of-the-road stuff! LOL