Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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many industrial hardware stores sell heavy-duty flexible shafts---sometimes they have a small jacobs chuck on the end, other times they have a nice, standard 1/4" collet on the end.
With a simple 1/4 X 5/8" locking shaft adapter you can connect that flexible shaft to an old washing machine motor and hog the HELL out of ports with a bit like MONZTER showed. The speed is only 3500 rpms, but the amount of pressure and feed rate you can use is amazing. I made one of these setups in 1985, and to this day still use it (though lament my original Japanese Flex Shaft has about had it now...)
MUCH easier to control than a bulky drill, probably not as nice as a dremel, but then again you can't spin a 1 3/8" diameter 80 Grit Flapper Wheel and just force it down the runner bores to clean them up with a dremel now...can you?
I love my Washing-Machine Motor Monstrosity. Everybody that sees it seems to like it. The Japanese used them in the shops---recycle something like the old 3/4 horse washer motor and a cheap flexible shaft...much cheaper than a bulky electric die grinder (though I confess last time Harbor Freight had those electric die grinders on sale for $19.99 I bought TWO!---man they work fast!)
But for a beginner, that nice slow motor and shaft speed allows you a lot of room for a mistake---and you don't easily gouge a 1/4" deep groove across the face of the workpiece if it catches and runs away on you!
Just a thought. I'm thinking everything but the motor is probably available through McMaster-Carr for shipping right to your door (including the burrs!)
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I recommended the 1 5/8 OD primary with a 1/8" wall. This size will support 700+ bhp and is small enough that bolts will clear properly. This size should also allow us more flexibility to get closer to equal length. I'm in favor of larger primaries if it's possible but it will likely result in a header more like a log manifold. I vote for the second order of business to be complete.
Just to state it again, the Euro Turbo has slightly over 1 5/8" I.D. in the log runners, though the head portion is slightly constricted same as any other stock Nissan Cast Manifold in that area...nothing some burr work couldn't clean out as an example.
I'm suspecting that the stock Euro Turbo will support one honker of an engine with those dimensions.
Slightly O.T., but it's always good to look at what's already been designed rather than proceeding from blank sheets on every aspect.
On the 'one piece' or 'multi-piece' flange issue---I'd suggest the manufacture as a single piece, then after fabrication relief/growth cuts may be done by the owner of the piece to allow for the expansion/contraction that occurs. This is what was done on JeffP's SFP conglomeration... As stated, it should minimize misalignment possibilities.
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Maybe thats why i cant find anyone that has tried to blow thru weber dgv's?
Weber DGV's are no harder than dual quad holley's with vacum secondaries to set up. You simply convert the secondaries to mechanical operation...but like blowing through a four barrel: Why?
EFI is the way to go boys. Cheaper and Cheaper every day!
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If he gets much faster in that thing, he won't be able to do the three-lane change into the offramp in time to get back near his 'lead car'....
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Nope...
Like I said, Maru is Zero...but like there are three ways to say the number '3'...the same sounding word can have several meanings depending on the ideographs used to depict it.
"Katayama" as calligraphed by "Mr. K" would have a different pattern than if a 4th grader spelled it out phonetically using Katakana.
Katakana and Hiragana are the two main forms of writing, one it old Chinese-Based Ideographs, Katakana is a phonetic way of writing so the Japanese can incorporate words that don't have a traditional old-school Hiragana.
Like the Convienience Store "7-11"
If you look at it, you would think it was Sichi-GoIchi...literally '7-11' in Japanese. But NOOOOOOOO! It's spelled in Katakana only, and is pronounced in Japanese using the Katakana Phonetic Spelling 'Seben-Erebbin'
Figure that crap out.
So "Maru" as written in English could mean several things---like you said, "Nissan-Maru" was the ship (as are most Japanese Ships) but the "Maru" that signifies "0" is totally a different ideograph than the one for "Maru" the ship suffix!
Clear as mud now?
Oh, and this even confuses Japanese---you have to actually READ what is being said sometimes, because the context in which the word is spoken has to define what it means. San-Maru in context is 'Three Zero' and is probably someone saying it that way for a reason. Normally 30 would be SanJu---literally meaning Three-Ten. But a Z432 is not a 'Zetto YonbyakuSanJuNi' (Z Four-Hundred Thirty-Two) but rather 'Zetto Yon-San-Ni' Literally 'Z Four Three Two'
There's a reason when you start to learn Japanese that one of the first phrases you pick up is 'Kami Ni Kaiete, oh kudasai' "Please Write it Down". There is a "World Traveller" advert out there for Cingular or AT&T right now where a guy says 'So Mr. World Traveller is about to call his best customer 'Mr. Stinky Fish-Face' through a simple intonation gaffe. This is not too far from the truth. Chinese is even worse. "Ma ma ma ma ma ma" is literally a sentence with a different intonation on each way of saying "Ma" that makes it mean a different thing, each with it's own Ideograph! I haven't tried past 'NeHow Ma' Five different intonations intimidates me!
Even clearer, eh?
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On my car, I used a 17 mm piece of tubing at a slight angle in the turbo's inlet piping, about 10cm from the turbine wheel. This 17mm tube is smaller than the BOV dump at around 25mm. I use a 25mm tube from the BOV to a tapered fitting that necks it down to 17mm. This gives a more directed velocity shot, and the hasn't seemed to affect how quickly the plenum blows down.
By blowing some compressed air at the compressor wheel you can best figure out what 'angle' seems the best for getting the wheel spinning. Keeping it 10cm away (er, 5" maybe) keeps that larger tube from screwing up the flow too much from sticking in to the intake ducting.
Same thing for your PCV, btw, similar setup like the OEM lines---if you play it right, you can use the stock upper PCV hose to hook to your fabricated intake tubing.
Argh...it's off the car and in the shed right now...I don't know exactly where...this is an example of where one photo would make what I'm trying to say much clearer!
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If you ever take a look at some late model Toyota Four-Cylinder intake manifolds, you will see exactly what you speak of: What looks like an Aluminum Header on the intakeb ports, with a Throttle Body in the formed 'merge collector' section of the assembly! Long runners, torquey torquey torquey...and all that volume is used, same as something with a bigger plenum.
Like Monzter says: There's very little that hasn't been thought up already, it's just a matter of finding it and then reapplying it in another realm.
I applied "Lizard Skin" insulating compound (for floorboards in hotrods, originally) to Centrifugal Compressor Torus Sections to keep personnel from rubbing against them and burning themselves...sales guy never thought of 'that' application before. Hell, it sure beats wrapping rockwool in chickenwire around them...ugh! Messy messy messy! Paint it on with a roller, and no muss no fuss.
Almost anything is applicable to more than one application, it just takes an open mind.
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To answer the question about the SMOG check--which I think it the pivotal point:
Turn your boost down, and stick your J-Pipe back on it. Paint your intercooler black so it doesn't draw attention. As long as the system remains 'as manufactured' it will pass the visual. It will be one day out of every 730 that you will have to run that way. Shouldn't take you 1/2 hour to accomplish, and then stick it back on.
If it's connected, and it doesn't have a CARB EO # on it, they can fail you on the visual (and paranoid techs these days will not hesitate to do so and most 'check only' stations, and you will have to go to a referee...
Do you want that hassle?
For the hassle once every two years, just swap the J-Pipe back on and pass the SMOG Test.
Now, as to 'either or' it all depends on how hard you boost and how long. It's not like you have a Saab with a 2.5 gallon windshield washer tank hidden inside the left fenderwell... your methanol supply will be limited, and the more you boost the more you use. So if you boost early, and boost often it can be as much of a drag as refilling a NO2 bottle...
A proper intercooler can be integrated and cool you fine to stratospheric levels, and methanol will add some power at the upper ranges.
I ran 21 psi with no intercooler, and the old Reliable Spearco Water Injection unit running ethanol/methanol/isopropyl/water for years on both my early Turbo Z and that was after I took the unit off the Corvair which had it on there forever (er...like installed some time in the 70's or early 80's!)
I don't know about people saying liquid injection will 'limit' your boost levels, Multistage turbosystems on pulling tractors run water injection through four stages of external compression to boost levels of over 150psi in the manifold. It's all a matter of each stage compressing and adding heat. And when you add heat at pressure the amount of water the air can hold in suspension goes up each time. If you start out with a low relative humidity your first stage can inject a LOT of water for heat removal. I think the 'limit your boost on liquid only' is a spurious contention.
Clear as mud now? LOL
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Most of the distributors that were sold as remanufactured were in fact new from Japan.
I had that suspicion! Thanks for the heads up!
How is the Fairlady Z?
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Lumiweld and a propane torch...
Or heliarc, yeah they can be welded.
The bumps at the inlet of the runners are a frustration! I think this is where the EGR is introduced on some manifolds, but on my P82, I didn't have EGR, but STILL had the same bumps (just without holes in them!)
Probably says a lot about 'common runner cores for casting all manifolds' than anything else!
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and i have the EFI bible, and it isnt helping.
Just to be pedantic, you need the EFI Bible and a multimeter. The EFI bible gives AFM checks which should have revealed your AFM problem right on the spot.
Following the EFI Bible circuit checks, you can check all circuits in the system within 45 minutes, and in a similar time do all the component checks that would follow on from getting a 'bad' circuit check.
I'm glad you got it running, but how was the EFI Bible 'not helping' in this diagnosis, as what you replaced IS covered in there quite explicitly...
I'm curious.
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That would result in a direct shunt of the hottest water directly to the pump inleet exacerbating the cavitation issue.
Ideally, like Electromotive did, you would vent all cylinders above the head to the radiator, this lets the water flow directly bottom to top in each individual cylinder, and evacuates steam and air bubbles from each cylinder equally. If you look at the "How To Modify" book you will see their tapping of the cylinder head, they did all cylinders directly to the radiator.
You only need the two smaller bypass lines for pump circulation when the thermostat is closed. Once it cracks open the pump will flow what it can---if the vents went back to the inlet, it's the same as looping the heater core hose---too much when it's not needed. The stock external bypass lines on the 73 and 74 cars WERE CLOSED by thermostatic valves once the water in them reached 170 degrees F. After the engine is warmed, and the thermostat open, the need for bypass lines back to the inlet of the pump ceases to exist---you have an open flow loop through the radiator and no need for low-flow bypasses. If you could close them both off it would be ideal as then all water was cold into the pump, and all hot water exited to radiator with absolutely no recirculation at all of hot water to the pump inlet.
The routing of the turbo to the inlet of the pump is for expedience. Doing it to the radiator would entail all sorts of tubing off-engine and to the radiator, and would not work as a bypass when cold...so it's a choice of expedience more than anything else. Ideally, you would tap pressure from the output of the pump, through the turbo and into the upper t-stat housing...that way after shutdown you would have cold water from the bottom of the radiator given a direct pass through the turbo as it warmed, and up to the high point of the engine---a thermal siphon after shutdown.
But expedient that setup is....not!
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D'OH, I just got the PM from Nigel. I'm sorry guys, I thought I had already posted my 'quick measurements'!!!
This is a cut n paste of the PM I just sent him back:
Hey Tony!Did you ever take those measurements? Nigel
I didn't post those already?
Let me see, the notepad is right here...
On the 'B' the countershaft has four gears, the largest being forward on the transmission, towards the bellhousing.
The gear widths on the countershaft are 18.0mm on each of the four gears.
The gear they mesh with on the main cluster gear assembly are all 18.3mm wide.
On the 'C' countershaft, the first gear forward (the largest one) is a total of 20.0mm (19.9mm?)wide, including the 'hardened spacer' I spoke of. The spacer itself is 1.7mm thick...Meaning the gear itself is 18.3mm thick. 0.3mm wider than the 'B' box! The gear it mates with on the cluster gear is 20.3 mm wide which is no doubt wider and stronger.
The next gears in succession appear to all be 18.3mm wide with mating gears similarly sized. So the big increase in strength appears in the first gear assembly, and then at least 0.3mm wider gear using all the available cluster gear for power transmission in the 'C' as opposed to the 'B'.
The gear cluster seems much tighter stacked due to the wider gears compared "B" to "C".
I thought I posted this some time ago. This notebook has been sitting by my chair for some time...all sorts of crap written next to and around it. If you want to post this to the original thread, feel free to... Some of the measurements were taken pretty quickly with a vernier caliper, but the changes in width were obviously more than simply a measurement error---when they sit side by side, you can see the "C" box has a tighter cluster stack, and simply looks 'beefier'...
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Well the paint job is technically illegal because of distracting of other drivers.
I would also call B.S. on this without a V.C. Section Referenced.
This paint is no different than any old 50's British Car with aluminum coachwork that is brightly polished.
FMVSS compliance is one thing, local Vehicle Code Compliance is another.
But I don't see 'technically illegal' and unless someone here has been cited or can show me the Vehicle Code Section relating to 'distracting paint jobs' I'm standing pat on my thoughts on this.
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What happens if you take matte/flat black and mix it with this stuff... Some heads might be exploding right now. I am going to ask Alsa.
You paint that over black paint which has already been buffed and polished! Just skip the superfine metallic chrome overlay and you have a killer gloss black paint job.
Application of that stuff is not as one would normally expect!
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I have looked, and I can not seem to find any information on why wrc cars etc vent to atmosphere. Some enlightenment here would be nice.
Well, being they employ 'flatshift' technology that retards the spark, and gives full fuel to turn the turbo into a gas turbine on full boost, the control scenario would be to blow off the pressure to atmosphere to keep minimum flows stabilized on the compressor side. This is exactly the same as a comercial compressor. These turbos during shifting and drop-throttle are not operating as conventional turbochargers but rather gas turbine compressors. They will make boost with no throttle opening, or WOT staging at the line on a rev limiter.
In that instant, to keep turbine speed up when running your EGT's skyhigh, you need to dump the pressure overboard as the engine simply can't process it. It's a totally different dynamic than drop-throttle in a street-driven car.
In that instance, you have no motive force on the turbine side---and you begin coastdown. By dumping pressure you minimize the coastdown, and if you give that brief pressurized 'boof!' of air into the compressor side when there is no pressure load on it, you spin it up to speed thereby minimizing coastdown effects.
Also, keep in mind the big flames from the WRC cars...when a team mechanical engineer in charge of fuel systems was asked by a design engineer for a Rally Rag 'why do they do that' sheepishly the engineer for the WRC team admitted they indeed could make the cars run without the big flames, but 'the fans love it, and it makes for startling sponsorship photos, so we go full rich (instead of fuel cut) on drop-throttle for the effect!' So there IS showmanship in all forms of motorsport...
Most OEM's blowdown within their intake tract for metering concerns. But Porsche is one of them that uses tangential entry of that blowdown energy to actually do something positive in their turbosystems. Waste not, want-not!
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. In most turbo systems you will see a higher pressure in the exhaust pre-turbine than in the intake.
I can agree with that statement, just not that it will be twice the inlet plenum pressure. In the old F1 days, the turbo sizing was enormous for the size of the engine, but for the HP they produced on mass flow, it wasn't so big. And they had very low preturbine pressures compared to inlet pressures. They weren't at a crossover point where reversion was an issue during valve overlap at least.
Yes, the pressure would be higher, but in one that is sized adequately it should be well less than 2X inlet.
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The L20 turbo should work well with the L24. For an L28, it was too small, but had full boost at a little over 2000 rpm....what a torque monster that was!!
I had the same experience with my L28. .43A/R on the turbine side, you can upgrade to the L28ET housing, the cartridge in the center is exactly the same (if you want to...)
I would love to have one of those L20ET Turbos (or a pair of them) back...I sold mine to a guy with an Isuzu 2liter, and wish I had it back for some of my street applications. I loved auto-x'ing that car...invariably instructors would say 'I don't like turbos for auto-x because they have non-linear response' and usually before the first turn it was "this car is
turbocharged? Feels more like a Supercharged car!" Love that early spool, but all-in by 5500. For an L24 it should be very nice.
Cheers!
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So basically, you're saying put the hole right where those chill pads are on the casting? Almost like someone was leaving a marker for people modifying the head later on, post factory? (Hint, Hint!)
Hindsight is 20/20, eh? If you look in the 'how to modify' book at the electromotive turbo setup, you can see their manifolding of the water above the combustion chambers...and it looks like they sunk their holes right in those chill impressions that you have photographed so well in your closeups!
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I have only the one FPR, and unfortunately for you, it's SO adjustable it works on EFI pressures as well!!!
Imagine that, I paid 12,000 Yen for that thing in 1987 (and think it's around 17000 yen today from what I recently saw) and never figured out what they were talking about in the (printend in japanese) instructions about the "EFI" section, because it showed two different possible ways to set it up---after some dorking around these past 30 days of unemployed freedom has revealed, the second setup was to allow the regulator to function at a base pressure of 3 Bar, instead of the way I was formerly running it around 0.3 bar!
Clever those japanese!
Panzer, I didn't blow you off, I just saw it, you can PM or e-mail me any time. Sorry I didn't see this post earlier.
The inlet pipe I have is on the front cover of the SK Comp Turbo Plenum I have---the P.O. welded it on in a sort of 'HKS Hybrid Inlet Setup' sort of way...
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My car will be restored by VA-motorsport, if everything works out.
Your car will be in very good hands, Ad is an artist!
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At idle, the L will survive in stock form for a looooooong time with only 3 to 5 psi at stock idle speed of 750rpm.
The stock gauge will not even read that low!
This is not a Chevy where you have 43psi at idle...
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The cumulative "They"....
It was always funny to watch guys explain 'Mitsubishi' to other gaijin (not that I'm not one...) as 'see, they made the Zeroes during WWII, and that heritage shows through:see the three spinning propeller blades in their logo!'
Of course, Mitsubishi means 'Three Diamonds'---which is what their logo is, and if you ever looked closely at the belts on a Mitsubishi you would see they use Mitsuboshi Belts...the logo on the belts being Three Squares, and Mitsuboshi meaning 'Three Squares'...
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No, you will pinwheel the compressor. Trust me on this one! Industrial compressors will viod the warranty if you do not install a check valve on the discharge because as easily as they will spin with power to the gearbox, that same pressure will stop them dead and then spin that same 15,000 HP motor in reverse just as quick as you can say 'what's that noise?'! Same goes for automotive turbos, especially ball bearing units.
You will not be equalizing volumes and blowing out the air filter, you will be imparting pressurized air to the suction side of the wheel which is under several inches of water vacuum. This is exactly how Porsche does it. I guess they aren't high-end? In any case, with the turbine already spinning, blowing a pressurized air source at it in the correct orientation will pre-spin it briefly to a higher rpm. It will continue to coast down as normal if still off the throttle, but if you reapply throttle the turbine is closer to productive rpms in this case. Try aiming the nozzle wrong and see what happens. You will (if you have a turbo tachometer with a datalogger) see a marked decrease in speed when that air hits the wheel.
As the 'twice the pressure' in the exhaust, I know for a fact that JeffP had 20 psi in the exhaust when there was 20psi in the intake plenum, under load, at 7000rpms. Some of the 'book stuff' really is so out of date it isn't funny. Proper turbine A/R sizing and current technology will make for radically different exhaust pressures that even experienced as recently as the 1980's
My official L31DETT RHD thread.
in L-Series
Posted
details details details...
"But they look the same spacing, what's 2mm?"
LOL