heavy85

Thanks John I'll do that. Your comments are exactly why I said I would pay more than he is asking. I'm willing to pay fairly for his time since he comes with high recommendations and I know he's busy. From my perspective he's doing me a favor. JM - $350 put's it into perspective. Looks like the metal is $2-300 for 1 3/4x0.95 DOM so with labor that's about right. Cameron

I figure most shops are ~$50 an hour to cover overhead and still make somewhat of a living. So 4 bends @ $5 a bend = $20 or about 24 minutes of work. I'm guessing he will spend more time with me than that and really wont make a penny on the whole thing. I would rather take care of someone local that's good and I can go to rather than trying eek out every penny from him. I'll see if he charges extra for the tubing, etc and then we'll work out how much he's worth but if he orders tubing for me (again I dont have anywhere it can be delivered since I dont have a loading dock), cut's a bar to length and adds 4 bends, and only charges $20 then I'll give him more to really cover his time and I'll still be way ahead. Cameron

Thanks for that. I was already planning on using your print which is where I figured the ~10' requirement for the main hoop. Now with screw-ups, nice to have, etc how any recommendation how more tubing should I order? Cameron

I found a local shop that will order the metal and bend the tube for me. It'll be a basic 4-point bar with diagonal and cross brace. I already have the harness bar welded between the towers. Given Murphy's law etc how much tubing should I have them order as I dont want to be short? It looks like the main hoop takes a minimum 10' length and the rest are shorter but I dont know how he orders the metal. I tried to order myself but they wont deliver over 8' to a non-business address. I'm thinking maybe 40'? When I asked how much to bend it he said $5 a bend. It was an older guy that said he used to build cages but does not much anymore because he doesn't have the time and comes highly recommended. I think I'll negotiate and see if he'll take $10 a bend depending on what he charges for the steel and how much time it actually takes him! Cameron

What kind of joint is that for the toe link? Cameron

I dont get your point BRAAP but this one is way cool http://www.hocky.se/imagearchive/hocky/cars/volvo_242-75/090823/index.html Cameron

I made a template out of coat hanger and took that with the datsun radiator hose and the LS engine hose to Advance Auto and searched through their inventory until I found one that fit perfectly with the correct ends. Had to trim one end a couple inches but otherwise fits perfect and is a single hose. Dont have the part number though. Cameron

I've hammered them out then back in several times trying to find the right spacer when I replaced the bearings. Just put them back in, torque, check preload and you should be good. Cameron

Mine pretty much fell apart so I wrapped it about a hundred times in electrical tape until it was a tight fit. Cheesy but seemed to work. If you have a chunk of plastic or whatever we can turn one on my lathe. Cameron

That sounds pretty terminal - everythings OK in the Oxandale household I hope. Sweet project. Is this street only or do you plan to track it? Cameron

I'm embarrassed to say I think to root cause was leaking banjo fittings. I had been running them all year with several track events, autox, etc and had no problems at all. Then at the end of one track day while changing back to street tires to drive home I noticed that both rears were leaking fairly bad as fluid was on the wheels and fluid dribbled out when you pressed the pedal. Looking at them you could see fluid dripping off the bottom of the pistons and the dust shields were brittle. Thinking the obvious that the seals were bad I exchanged one at the auto parts store but the other one I got on e-bay so I bought a rebuild kit. I replaced the seals in the one and it still leaked dripping off the piston. Then I started looking REALLY close and noticed that the banjo fitting was wet and that was the source. If the fittings leak the fluid runs down to the top of the piston then runs off the bottom making it look like a piston seal leak. Since the fluid is thin and clear and the calipers are gold anodized it's impossible to see the fluid path but you could feel by hand and trace it. Why both sides decided to leak at exactly the same time after 1/2 years use I have no idea but I noticed you have to crank them down more than I would think is enough to get them to seal. I wonder if the temps caused the copper crush washer/seals to relax? Cameron I'm anxious to see how your car does when you get it complete and on track!

Also on the toe-link attachment I would make it 'taco' style to distribute stress to the strong part of the A-arm tube. This same theory applies to why 'tacos' would be preferred for all the gusseting. Having it go into the middle of the tube is less stiff/strong than attaching to the top and bottom. For the toe link attachment you could start with a rectangular tube instead of a flat plate, notch one side around the A-arm tube at the appropriate angle, drill a vertical hole for a rod end and Bob's your uncle. I look forward to seeing your calculations so I can steal the tube thicknesses if I ever build my own. Cameron

... so where's the update on the latest project? Cameron

Camaro / Miata M12x1.5 fit with the correct knurl you just have to change nuts to the 1.5 pitch and they are long and easy to get. Ask me how I know ... Cameron

From another post in here's my costs. Add $450 since I blew-up the shortened Camaro driveshaft. There's a thread in LS1Tech.com where someone does it for $1500 using truck engine: "Cost (best I can remember so it's close): Wrecked '02 Z28 $6500 Sold ~$2000 maybe more before I'm done Headers $460 Exhaust $250 K&N $35 Intake rubber elbow ~$25 Water lines, fittings, etc $100 Fuel lines $200 Driveshaft $160 Diff flange adapter $65 Poly mounts ~$100 Serpentine & extra pulley ~$40 Battery & alt wiring ~$50 PCM flash $75 Clutch lines $150 (dont ask ...) Misc crap that adds up $200 So about $6,400. If you were better at parting out like Clive you could significantly reduce the upfront engine cost. Otherwise I dont see how you could do it for any less. I reused as much of the f-body stuff as possible (throttle cable, dipstick, fuel tank, wiring, etc) and did all the work myself including building the mounts, fabbing the exhaust, etc. I also am still using the stock radiator so we'll see how that holds up and have no speedo or fuel gauge yet so this is basic drivable with no frills ... other than the loud pedal!!!" Cameron

Well then since SCCA is 1.75x0.095 for rollbar and NASA is the same for roll cage I think I'll go with that. Now to decide how best to go about this. Where do you find local shops that bend tubing. I'm in basically in nowheresville for racing other than dirt roundy round and their cages are SCARY in general to say the least. Or maybe buy a bender ... Cameron

Did you mean thinner stuff would pass tech? NASA requires 1.75x0.12 vs 1.5x0.95 which is fairly significant difference. There is a difference in specs between cages and bars and bars are suppose to be thicker. Here's the excerpt from NASA: 11.4.7 Roll Bars All open cars should have a roll bar installed to help protect the occupant(s) from injury during a roll-over. The roll bar should be able to withstand the compressional forces involved in supporting the full weight of the car. The roll bar’s main hoop should extend the full width of the car (except certain cars that have been approved by NASA). The main hoop shall be one continuous piece with smooth bends and no evidence of crimping or wall failure shall be present (i.e. should be Mandrel bends). All welds should be of the highest possible quality, with full penetration [Ref:(15.6.15)]. All cars with roll bars are required to have adequate roll bar padding per CCR section #15.6.4. In cases where the driver’s head may come in contact with the roll bar should the seatback fail, a seatback brace is required in conformance with section #15.6.22. The material and minimums are as follows: (All cars with full roll cages should conform to the applicable sections found in section #15.0.) Vehicle weight DOM or ERW Under 2000 lbs. 1.50" x .120†2001 - 3500 lbs. 1.75" x .120" Over 3500 lbs. 2.00" x .120" Again I just want to add a safety measure to my 38 year old tin but at the same time dont want to be sent home for technical rules. I also am not building to a specific club since I run with multiple groups. I really think 1.5 or 1.75 x 0.095 would be more than sufficient since I have a roof structure in addition to the bar. Cameron

I sold my old L6 engine and trans today so have the cash to build a roll bar for the Z. As much as I desperately want to put a cam in it or A6's or other go-fast stuff it's time for some safety improvements. The car is under 2600 lb wet w/ me, runs a stock LS1, and full slicks. I run time trial type of competitive events mostly and any more only on the street to get to the track and home. It's a fast car so I need some safety improvements and think a roll bar is probably the first place to start. I've already built sub frame connectors, engine mounts, etc so I have the tools and ability to fabricate but no bender. I tend to buy tools when I need them so I have them for future use but am struggling spending the $$ on a tube bender that's not going to be used very often at all. So that leads me to how to go about this and I'm looking for advice from others who've been there. Options: 1.) Autopower - dont like because it attaches to the fenders, want to better tie the chassis together 2.) Kirk - I like this much better but the back legs still attach to the fender wells and shipping is expensive 3.) Modified Kirk - if they would be willing to leave off the back legs I could add them myself to connect back to the strut towers. This way the bending is all done but shipping could almost cover a cheap bender. 4.) Find someone (?) to bend the bars for me and fabricate myself. Spend the saved money from not buying tools to buy a cam . 5.) Buy the cheap ebay etc bottle jack benders and fabricate myself. 6.) Buy a 'nicer' ratcheting pro-tools or JD2 bender and fabricate myself. Next question is I keep seeing and even a relatively local (2 hours drive) SCCA cage builder recommends 1.75 x 0.095. SCCA says 0.095 but NASA says 0.120 wall thickness. 0.120 seems awfully thick but I run NASA and other's who have similar requirements. NASA also says that roll bars are for roll-over protection in open top cars so the assumption is the bar is the only protection. Since my car still has the factory roof structure would 0.095 still pass tech since that's the requirement for roll cages? For TT there is no requirement at all for a roll bar, I'm only adding one for additional safety and the extra weight is killing me especially if I need to go all the way to 0.120. Thanks Cameron

I'm running 1.38" piston Outlaws and am seeing tapered pad wear. Several mm over the life of the pad. I talked with Outlaw and they said this was why you get the different sized pistons. Based on my experience and had it to do over I would go with bigger and tapered pistons. You could probably rotate pads every event and even things out but the other side effect is piston wear. I'm seeing scuffing on the pistons since they sit cocked in the bores due to the tapered pads. It's not caused a problem yet but can't be good for life of the pistons. Cameron

Back when I ran an L6 the driveshaft bolted to the flange on the trans. I never needed to drop the exhaust just lay the front of the driveshaft on the exhaust. After doing it several times I got to where I could have the car on jack stands and the tranny on the floor in under an hour. 14 mm wrench & socket (deep). 10 mm wrench and 17 mm for the slave and it was out. The tranny is light enough to just lay on your chest and heave in. Cameron

I dont get it . I would take the old ones if I had to choose or a true a-arm w/ toe link if I were to make some. The new ones look kind of scary to me putting the tubes in bending. Cameron

Filter may get dirty quick but that's something you can deal with. When I had cold air in front of the radiator ... before I added oil cooler and could no longer fit the filter despite much work to be able to - no I'm not bitter ... the filter would get dirty very quick. Couple hundred miles and it's covered in bugs and crap. When it's in the top of the engine bay the bottom half gets dirty fairly quick from sucking up dirt from below so I imagine if the whole this is low then the filter would fill up that much quicker. Cameron

cough ... Sarcasm ... cough

Is a sacrifice pop fly 'cheating'? Is the rest of the team beside Lance Armstrong 'cheating'?