Gollum

Seattlejester makes points that I could very well find myself saying. That said though, nobody gets out of their car what they put into it. At least not 99% of us. It looks like most of the work done to the S30 was done with zero labor cost, just energy. I bet there's less than 10k invested. The RB25 isn't exactly a super expensive motor to get, and there isn't any go fast goodies added on. But, a low rust chassis is worth something. And a low rust chassis that's been gone over is worth a bit more to the right person. I don't like that it doesn't look like they completely stripped and then painted the inside of the car. Stripping the down the car to a bar chassis from the firewall back is 10 times more worth than from the firewall forward, so I can understand if they just didn't want to do the work. But they did so much, and to just leave it looks like someone lost energy/momentum and just wanted to get it done. Hopefully it's because they didn't find any rust and decided it was fine, because there's also the offshoot chance they found more work than they wanted to deal with and just put it all back together ignoring the extra hundreds of hours of labor left. I'd be more inclined to fallow JSM's advice. Just buy the car outright. It sounds like the S30 owner is now dead set on getting your S14, but having both might not be so bad. But maybe it's you that's really bitten by the trade idea. I personally would only pay 7-8k for that Z. But I'd also only pay maybe 10k for your S14, just being honest. The Z has a nice chassis, but that's about it. Let's be honest. The engine isn't worth that much. There's no suspension work of notoriety. Interior isn't WOW. No fuel cell. No big brakes. Cheaper 17" rims. Worn out tires. Go down the list. The selling point is the chassis. You have to decide if that selling point is worth it. You might never find such a good deal on a nice chassis, who knows. Every year these cars become a little bit harder to find in good shape. 10 years down the road we might be laughing at what we wouldn't pay for a restored Z chassis... But in today's market, I just don't see anything of "wow" value in that car. It's a solid project that was heading in the right direction, but for some reason the owner decided against pursuing further. The lack of engine upgrades almost scares me, like he got the motor in just to sell the thing....

i drove my first (and only so far) S30 to work the day I bought it. Picked it up in Oakland, more than an hour from work, after having not looked at it at all. It was a project that had been driven daily and parked for lack of funds to continue. It wasn't the brightest idea to drive it to work, but drive it I did, and just for good measure it rained, good and hard. I've owned 4 S130 (280ZX) cars by comparison, and even though I'd driven and ridden in other S30's nothing could have prepared me for the fear I would feel getting used to my new S30 that morning. It made quite a many squeaks, squawks, and bangs that had me leaving a little poo trail out of the holes in the floor... I wouldn't wish that experience upon anyone. I did it because I NEEDED a car, and needed it NOW. I knew what I wanted and have NEVER regretted it! Best $1,100 spent in my life. Almost 5 years later now, plus a wife and a little daughter, I never even consider selling it, and the only time I broke down and even talked about it my wife (fiancee at the time) slapped it out of me, literally. She talked about growing old with that car, and that it should be around long enough to outlive me, and that selling it would just fill me with regret that would most likely cause me to make a poor rebound purchase. I know this isn't all exactly what you were asking, but it's the kind of background I wish I'd gotten/read earlier on in my Z obsession. I absolutely love these little cars, but they can certainly have their moments that you just want to throw it all in the trash. I just thank God almost everyday that I'm not driving something like an Alfa, triumph, or some other awful car that goes wrong constantly. In 8 year and 5 cars the times I've been left stranded has been extremely rare. Oh, and to sum it all up. If it's remotely low rust, then $3k can be considered a deal for a car that could be driven home with less than $200 in parts and 1 hour of labor. Don't worry too much about small rust holes in the doors, fenders, battery area, etc. Be worried about two rust factors. 1. Large areas of rust (especially in the hatch area). 2. Many small rust spots everywhere. Fixing a hole or two isn't bad, but if there's signs of work that needs to be done all over then you could be in for a VERY time consuming restoration if you want to "do it right". And if there's large sections then that means simply fabbing up some plugs won't fix it, and you'll need to find some donor sections to replace large areas. Also, looking at the details can really help. Do the fender bolts alone the hood line look like they're rusted solid? Paying close attention here can save you from buying a car not worth getting into. A member here that I know personally bought a car in which it seemed at least 9 out of 10 bolts removed just decided to separate their heads from their threads. There was more time spent drilling out bolts than actually bolting anything on. That's a sad, sad way to spend time working on your car.In some ways I'd take a half rusty car that's been completely torn apart in the last 5 years than a low rust car that's been sitting for decades. Even thought it might "look" nice, who knows what you'll find in the process. But from what I see, I'd probably consider it if I was shopping.

I believe we've already had quite a few threads about it. It's not really in the same market as a Z car, but it certainly demands some attention. At $25k here stateside, it's considerably cheaper than a 370Z. In fact I'm sure I could find a cherry 240Z here in CA for the price DIFFERENCE between the two, just to put things in perspective (it's hard to make numbers mean something when most people just get a loan and look at a monthly bill). At a "measly" 200hp it's not a show stopper compared to the 330+ in the 370Z, or even the 300+ in subaru's STI or weaker WRX at 265... But where I love the BRZ, FRS, or AG86 depending what badge and country purchased from/in, is weight. Under 2800 pounds in base manual trim it's quite a bit lighter than much else in that HP and price segment. That's just a tick under 500 pounds difference between the lightest BRZ and lightest 370Z. That's considerable, there's no way around it. The only thing this car really has to compete against is the miata, which though another 200 pounds lighter, will cost considerably more to get a hardtop, and you've got a motor that's pushing 167hp. Oh, and the BRZ has back seats which from what I hear are about as usable as mustang rear seats, which isn't bad for the weight honestly. I personally find this car a refreshing step in the right direction by the auto industry. I hope it sells like hot cakes so they get the picture and see that there's a demand for affordable, practical, well performing sports cars that aim to be well rounded, not just loud, flashy, but slow (civic si commercials making anyone else sick to their stomach?). I'm also excited to see what Ford does in the next 10 years, as they've made a pledge to remove 750 pounds from each vehicle in their lineup in the next 10 years. They've made some huge contract with, I think, Dow manufacturing to produce large scale carbon fibre materials. That gets me really excited because the mustangs, though portly, are already far lighter than their competitors from Detroit.

Geez, I've seen vehicles blue booking for only 10k repaired with considerably more damage. Was the adjuster concerned there was driveline damage? For a 12k payout I'd say get it fixed, perfect chance for a nice, well done paint job, I'm glad you got a good payout, but I'm also curious what that adjuster was smoking. I hope you fix it, if not, rest in peace indeed.

Welcome to the other side. You've traveled the road of a real car guy/hybridz owner. Feels good don't it?

Haha, try installing a tranny with the motor already in with the car on a good 30+ degree inclined driveway. That's pain. It's like wrestling pigs raining from the sky! No fun. Doing it on nice smooth level ground is no big deal. Same as any other RWD car except the tranny is actually pretty light considering. I'd take it over a FWD tranny swap any day. That said, pulling both is no big deal and makes clutch/flywheel work almost pleasant.

Well ray, That looks like something I would do. Great minds think alike? Or maybe we're both only half there anymore!

I've been on here lately because every once and a while my 9 day old daughter needs some non-mommy time which means I have to suffer sitting somewhere while holding my new bundle of joy.... ...and then I multi-task. Insomnia is wonderful btw. In a few weeks I won't be on here except as needed as I'll be busy working, and when not working I'll be rewiring my S30 from scratch. Yay!

If it's a solid motor and you want the complete easy to drop in swap, do it. But for me personally, this is what I'd look for in a $2,000 L28ET 1. Freshish Rebuild 2. MS 2 or better 3. T3/T4 or better 4. Decent Intercooler 5. Larger Injectors + Rail 6. Dyno Sheets Would all that cost more than $2k to do myself? Probably. But the people that get MORE than what they paid for to do something to/with a car are probably less than 2% of car guys out there. You can hardly do a smart, cheap restoration to a '65 mustang and come out even, and that's about as sure of a bet as you can get. Just because someone spent $5k to build a 300+hp L motor doesn't make it worth $5k. In my experience, if you do all the work yourself you can maybe expect to get 75% of your money back, at best, when going to market. By contrast, from what I've seen if you're having a shop do the work, you'll be lucky to ever come close to 50% return on what you've spent. I've seen guys dump over $50k in a car just to sell it for $10k. It hurts, but that's the reality of the market. Something is worth what people are willing to pay, and most buyers won't have the emotional tie that you had to your project that made you spend that money in the first place. But as tony said, this isn't a hard decision. Are you willing to pay for it or aren't you? If it's easy and that's what you want, just spend the frickin' money. If you'd rather do it yourself cheaper, then do it!

Please share details when you have it up and running! Sounds like a fun build.

Not sure if those same tax benefits are still around, but there's still plenty of incentive for me, personally. And don't spread the word on this, I mean it. But my plan, if I go homebrew, would be to approach the bottom barrel grocers who buy the "late" fruit from the big stores and then sell them at a discount. You know who these people are, grocery outlet, dollar stores, etc. They normally just throw molding and/or rotten fruit out. Well, why not make nightly trips around town unloading their bad fruit FOR them? There's still plenty of sugar to be had in these "waste goods" and will otherwise just see a landfill. Sugar beets are cheap, but free and down the street is even better!

In my experience, the only time an "auto tune" feature from the standalone market is useful is if you have either an engine with unknown internals that you need a baseline for, or you have an unusual parts combination engine that you can't accurately guess what it'll flow, then you can baseline with the "auto tune". If it's just getting a base map going they can really speed things along, but I'd NEVER EVER EVER consider it a "forget bringing it to a tuner" feature. It WILL leave power on the table in most cases and will more certainly NOT run stellar under the curve.

O rly? I would beg to disagree. I think you'd be HARD PRESSED to save more than 100 lbs at best between engine and transmission when swapping to a SR20DET over the L28ET. Check the definitive weight thread, the L motor in NA trim comes in pretty darn light, especially for an iron block inline 6. I'm not saying the SR is heavy, or that there isn't a differences, I'm just saying that block weight and length are only an aspect of engine weight. I'd bet money that an SR20DET head complete weighs more than the L6 head complete. I also bet you're not saving any weight when it comes to the transmission, though that's not a huge argument if you want lots of power since the stock L transmissions won't hold a ton. John C of all people will also argue tooth and nail that the weight PLACEMENT of the SR20 swap isn't as meaningful as people like to presume, and that a NA L28 can achieve near identical weight placement when moved back like IT CAN! Typically 3" back and 1" down isn't a hard feat to achieve, and more can be done if you don't mind some firewall reshaping. By contrast, just removing the front bumper can remove a similar weight amount, and it's MUCH further forward in the car, lending to a much more impacting inertia change. Oh, and it's free if you don't mind the look.

Yes that's true, but it's not "the truth", which isn't always the same. Clear plastics come in probably a thousand plus different varieties. The stuff they use for race car windshields is extremely durable and can handle rock chips, wipers, etc and more. Getting this stuff in curved varieties for windshields is cost prohibitive for most of us, but getting it in flat variety for a rear window isn't all that bad. And you can add special UV coatings to prevent (mostly prolong really) the discoloration from sunlight. In many cases what you find might already be treated, so find out. It's a bit of work to do all this homework, but when you're trying to save weight past the obvious stuff, doing the research to save that 30-35 pounds is very intriguing. I've spent many more hours on this site researching engine swaps!

Here in california they've made water based paints a legal requirement for auto body shops. It's been hell for some shops to learn the color bending curve. It drys different, peals different, and sun fades different. It's also more expensive from what I've heard. But, on the plus side it's WAY better to spray from many standpoints like what you mentioned. Doing a complete paint job removes most of the shortcomings, so in your case I'd say go for it!

While we're on the topic I want to bring something up. I was going to just PM mack about it, knowing that it goes beyond what people are trying to learn, but thought it might actually benefit the HBZ community as a whole, so here we go. The E85 you'll find at the pump is of course approximated, and will vary with season by design. They also use gasoline to "denature" it, meaning make it poison so people don't drink it so it's no longer transported and sold as a "beverage alcohol" or whatever term you want to use. Basically, drinking spirits have a million laws attached, and since E85 for vehicles makes a bit of since for the right buyer, they needed a way to get around all that since it's just meant for fuel, well mix it with gasoline and voila, problem solved. This also lead to improved transportation costs, as ethanol is water-soluble. Gasoline is NOT water soluble so it's EASY to get the water out, so storage standards aren't necessarily kept "strictly fallowed", if you catch my drift. Oh, there's laws about the fumes and such, but you'd be amazed the stories I've heard from people in that field. So mix the E85 with gasoline, problem solved. You now can get away with much "looser" tanks without destroying product. But.... is that what's best for the car running ethanol? I personally say no. I personally feel the best option is running as high of ethanol content as you can get for the money, and letting the rest be what it will be at distillation, water weight/volume. If anything, ADD water to get to a consistent proof reading. The ethanol in the water will keep the water from rusting your tank and other fittings as long as they survive alcohol just fine, as opposed to gasoline where water in the system is almost guaranteed to ruin something by process of time. The added water will actually yield BETTER burning properties compared to gasoline E85. Though you won't be able to make as much POWER PER GALLON, your Rich Best Torque, and Lean Best Torque will be much "richer" since it's the alcohol content that matters for your mixture. So yes, it's not as "powerful" as gasoline E85. but it makes more sense in many ways. It will only add to the cooling properties of E85, instead of taking away like gasoline, and it will also help keep the engine squeaky clean. Of course, to me a huge benefit is that you can actually make MORE power since you no longer have the gasoline "getting in the way" and are basically running pure alcohol with a volume increasing cleaning agent. And another benefit as that it's cheaper and easier to MAKE, if you decide to get a fuel distillers license. Just like biodiesel, the home brewers crowd is growing, and there might be one in your area. They're most likely more than happy to skip adding gasoline for you and might already be doing that. You might also be amazed to find how much cheaper the home brewers are making their ethanol versus how much it goes for at the pump. It's also not quite as chemically advanced in my opinion as making biodiesel, or at least making it well. If I decide to go E85 I might consider making my own fuel, since I can easily draw up a side business plan that can easily make 100+ gallons a month, which is more than I should need for myself. And if I do it legitimately with a license and business name, as a sole proprietor if the business is at a loss then I'm at a tax advantage aren't I? Nothing illegal about that, just lots of hoops to jump through. I'm already a self employeed contractor so it wouldn't change how I file much anyhoo. Is it a lot of time? Sure, what isn't. But in reality if you set it up right you'll spend more time getting your fuel source and getting it for a good deal than you will making it, since much of the process can be "set and forget cooking" so to speak. Once you have the process down with the right equipment, your main job is moving mash from process to process and then babysitting it while it goes. No reason it couldn't be done in your spare time after getting home from work, or doing batches on the weekends. The biggest downside that I haven't touched on, because it honestly is one that hurts quite bad, is that if you're using water/alcohol, then you obviously want to avoid anything resembling gasoline from entering your tank... This means you're now 100% dependent on your source, and if you get stuck somewhere you're left to buying $30+ a gallon fuel at the grocery/liquor store. If you have a great source, even if it's yourself, then it's a great option. There's also the chance that maybe the big companies making E85 could re-tool to use water-alcohol, but that's like wishing our government is going to turn our deficit into a surplus in the next 12 months. Just ain't gonna happen. Possible? Sure. Just too many sharks in that ocean to go surfing. EDIT: Oh and I forgot to mention. A huge reason the E85 content changes is because they use a closer to E70 blend as a "winter fuel" since ethanol is so much harder to get your engine started on. Most subaru STI's converted to E85, even on nice summer blend fuels can take a good 3+ seconds turning over to start, and that's considered "normal". A water-alcohol mix will be even worse, needing EVEN MORE heat to get burning. The logical solution to this is quite obvious to most of you here I'd imagine... Compression. Add enough compression to make it a E85 ONLY engine, instead of a "flex-fuel" design and this problem practically goes away. I'd definitely never run E85 exclusively on a stock dish piston + P90 7.4:1 setup. The compression is just too low imo and you'll be left with an engine that starts up like it's running out of fuel. If someone was wanting to run E85 on a stock L28ET for performance benefits I'd suggest considering a twin injection setup a REQUIREMENT. This will allow 100% gasoline at cranking and reward you with easy starts. You could also just run a start up injector at the TB on any E85 vehicle to avoid this problem as well, though you'll need it running through warm up too, and adding an extra tank + pump is just needlessly complicated for a start up fuel imo. Compression is the real solution. Run 11:1+ and don't look back. Run as much as you're willing to gamble. I've seen turbo V8's running 13:1+....

If you're like me and doing a "street driven race rod" then I suggest doing wiring from scratch. It might sound like a ton of work, but I sketched out a wiring diagram for my S30 chassis wiring the other day and it's not all that much really. The major complications are where to place relays and wire routing, and deciding what circuits to use switches with or without relays. Relays are wonderful for high amp circuits, but they can needlessly complicate a simple circuit like the radio/accessories. I've been looking for a good automotive or comparable 12v circuit breaker to use instead of fuses (that are affordable. The search hasn't gone too well but I also don't mind cutting up a spare '83 turbo chassis harness as my fuse panel donor. If you're going to do it that way, look up some hot rod wiring diagrams, as they make it super simple and easy to clearly see how the systems work and should be laid out. There's many "right" ways to do wiring, just as long as you use the right part for the job. Don't use $1 switches, and use relays for high amp stuff like headlights, horn, etc. The only wiring I need for MY car is: Headlights EFI Fuel Pump Coil Tail Lights Turn Signals Reverse Lamp License Lamp (same circuit as tail lamps) Wipers starter alternator stereo defrost (custom arrangement) The thing I've found and the reason I suggest going custom like this in your case, is that the more you remove from your harness the more likely you're going to introduce problems. There's too many pieces that have power running in series and/or parallel. If you want to making it clean without tons of empty wiring connectors, you'll end up doing more work than making a custom harness. That's what I ran into with my S30. I started gutting everything I didn't need (280Z so there was a TON of needless crap) and it quickly got out of hand. You say "hey, I don't need this, and the wiring for it is one it's own fuse" and yank it out, only to find tons of hidden crimps and splices in the wiring that tie everything together. In hind sight, even if I'd completely finished my rewiring using the stock harness it probably would have been a fire hazard. Simply too much cutting and splicing to be safe. Post some pics when you got them.

You've certainly found an exception to my philosophy tony, but consider this. All of that complication was done in the pursuit of improvement, mostly (if not all) in the emissions arena. They might have even succeeded in some regard in that area. Just because it was a PITA to work on and made power like an underwater windmill doesn't mean it didn't reach some engineering "goal". I've seen my philosophy ring true time and time again, the more you improve a system, the more complex it will tend to get, and the harder it will be to diagnose. A great analogy to this I think is trying to compare modern GSXR carbs to an old GB TBI V8. Those early EFI systems were in many ways "simpler" than a complex carb, but how many are in junkyards due to EFI related issues that nobody wants to take the time to solve? With a carb you can just run to the autoparts store and buy a crappy edlebrock and get your butt home. It'll cost you sub $300 for a brand new unit in almost any configuration, which is far less than any EFI system unless it's a part out you got a steal on. The GSXR carbs on the other hand are a work of art. Not only did they meat emissions compliance and were only phased out for as much of legal reasons than anything else, but they were also wonderful at making GOBS of power. The newer EFI GSXR doesn't make a ton of extra power the carbs left behind, but they certainly do have their benefits. Repairing GSXR carbs doesn't look like something I'd really be eager to jump on of course, as their beautiful performance does come at a price. The moral of the story is that again, you should get what works for you. If you want to have a car you can race and daily drive, I suggest EFI. If you want something cheap (for an L motor) I suggest OEM EFI. If you want something that looks and sounds amazing, carbs are probably for you. If you're racing competitively, go with what's legal and deal with the limitations as best as you can. If you want a hot street motor but want the look, sound, and simplicity of a carb, go for it. If you want to drive 6,000+ miles cross country, either make sure to check over your carbs before you leave and pack basic tools, or making sure your EFI is in as perfect working order as you can get it and bring as many spare EFI parts you can muster. Or if you have lots of money to blow and want the best of everything, try going ITBs with standalone, which offers sexeh looks, a wonderful sound, and probably the best performance you can get from your intake and fuel system.

The later S130's power steering is, oh I don't know, just about a million times better than the earlier power steering. But if you have or prefer manual steering stick with that, it works just fine other than having a slower ratio which can be a pita at an autox. I've done quite a bit of my own research comparing 2 seater versus 2+2 chassis when cutting them up, but I haven't done much comparison between the 79-81 and 82-83 cars. I'd imagine they're mostly identical but I wouldn't throw out there being vast differences in the bolt on body parts like the doors, hatch, etc. The later cars had power lock options which the earlier didn't that I've seen. It also seems the later ones don't deal with corner windows leakage like the earlier ones tend to, so I believe something changed there but that could simply be the seal they used. I personally prefer the later bumpers, but any of the full fiberglass bumpers look worlds better imo. But that's just me. Behind the dash they're mostly identical. Obviously the auto climate models have some different bits here and there versus the manual models, but it seems like they all use the same blower motor and heater core units. I prefer the later brakes too, though I'm not sure how different the rears really are at all. There's other little differences here and there, but another that would concern me, is the wiring. Try to use the wiring for the chassis you're using. There's quite a few points that are different that are NOT fun to convert. I converted a '81 COMPLETELY over from a '83 turbo donor down to EVERY last wire, even the stereo harness. It's NOT a fun job. Took a solid week, full time (not working at that point in time) and LOTS of labeling and still head scratching. Again, not a fun job, and the only reason I did it was to use the factory turbo gauges.... shouldn't have gone through all that in hindsight, as it just helped derail the project and was a contributing factor in not getting it on the road ever. (the larger factor was my age, budget, and lack of motivation once I had a S30). Take lots of pictures, not just for us, but for yourself. Every time I see old pictures of a project of mine I wish I had more.

He's right. I sold mine for $250 because I just wanted them gone. Had a good 10+ offers locally in 1 day. Could gotten much more, but didn't want to sit on them. Oh, and awesome find btw.

Yay for the slicktops! Mine ticks in around 2700 pounds, much lighter than people expect, and I still have power windows, power steering, etc. Personally, I think these cars really start to shine once you get around 160whp+ and down bellow 2400 pounds, both of which are easily attainable. The turbo swap is definitely great dollar for dollar, but if you're handy there's a plethora of engines that will made decent power that are viable options. But most importantly, I think that weight reduction is the most overlooked area of upgrades. Lower weight can dramatically improve acceleration, cornering grip , braking, and around town MPG. So lets cover some basics on that. Your car should already have an R180 which will be quite a bit lighter than the indestructible R200, but your R180 should survive just fine unless you want to run 300+ft/lbs and run quite a bit lower than stock ride height. Get some good lightweight seats. Stock seats are heavy for a simple manual adjustment seat that isn't very comfortable. If you don't mind the hazzard, run without bumpers, front and back. You can use a fiberglass MSA front end without the support like the recommend. Saves a lot of weight. Ditch the AC if you can bear it. Convert to the later rack and pinion power steering if you currently have power steering. Being a '79 there's a chance it's manual, but to convert the 79-81 power steering you'll need the rack + the cross member from the 82-83, plus the hard lines. And run new tie rods, as old worn ones are no fun. The steering pump is the same on all year power steering models. The reason though for all this hard work is that the rack and pinion isn't just lighter, but feels better, communicates better, and also place the weight much lower. The recirculating ball is a good 2.5-3 feet off the ground, while the rack and pinion is less than 1 foot. This isn't for everyone, but a lexan rear window will save a TON. I'd guess (after having carried quite a few) the rear hatch complete at around 60 pounds for the rear wiper model. AT LEAST 2/3 of that is the glass. After removing the glass you can easily lift the whole thing with your arm outstretched for a nice shoulder workout. Pull the rear wiper too, since you won't want to use it on lexan anyhow. That'll save another 5 pounds. Remove the AC if you can bear it, but you're in FL, that's a good reason to live in CA like me I was amazed that though subtle, I could feel the cornering difference with just removing the AC pump + condenser. Don't run larger rims and tires than needed. Stock turbo 15's will fit a 225 just fine but even a good 205 is fine for most street cars honestly. But running more rim and tire than needed is probably the biggest mistake I see done on a daily basis and it's just plain scary, since it's 99% looks driven. Ditch the hood if you can afford a fiberglass one. Stock hood is HEAVY. Removing the hood springs will save you some extra weight too which makes hood pins start to look attractive. Then tie it all together with a lightweight flywheel and good clutch and it'll feel like a completely different animal than stock. You'll go from being a 17 second car that barely out handles fox body mustangs, to being possibly a high/mid 15 second car that can now hold it's own in the corners with much of what you'll find on the road, leaving the game in the hands of the driver, not the car. Pay attention to the details as you go and you can easily have a sun 2400 pound daily driven S130. Mine is probably under 2700 right now and I'm still running full glass, full bumpers, and all stock body panels. I'm also running a R200 though and the recirculating ball power steering, The only reason all that is true is because I got my last S130 for free (yes free, didn't even know the guy really), and it's hard to invest money into something that you're not already invested in. Good luck with the car, looks like a decent start other than the bit of front end work to be done.

You both crack me up. You're both from completely different worlds and see things very differently, yet you both truly see the value of EFI over carbs. Unfortunately michaelp, you have obviously had some BAD history with the bosch systems and haven't spent the hours upon hours reading up on them. Do they have limitations? Yes. But so does EVERY OEM EFI yet guys commonly make 50% or more than stock power without flashing. Is a fully programmable EFI or even a custom ROM better than "making a stock tune work"? Hell yes. But let's not have some fantasy about how carbs work perfectly. I like carbs for the fact they're damn straight forward to repair and a million times less likely to leave you stranded if you're Macgyver enough. By a simply philosophical standpoint the better you make something the more complicated it will become. There are some very simplistic carb designs out there that are easy to work with and fairly idiot proof, but they also have many more limitations than the better carbs on the market. In the same light, early EFI is simple and elegant in many ways, lacking the required feedback levels modern EFI boxes do. As systems evolve, it seems they become more and more temperamental, requiring more and more thought into the designs to make them "warranty proof". Notice how a modern sensors tend to be double if not triple the price from just 20 years ago? That's not just part dealer markups. In the end you need to find a system that works for YOU. Carbs have their place, as well does modern Motec, Electromotive, MS, etc.. And for a good many people, there's nothing "wrong" with the datsun EFI. Turbo guys have made well over 300whp with it, and though I'm sure they left power on the table somewhere, they got it done and spent far less than many other options. I've seen people make quite a bit of power in the NA realm with the stock ECU. And in all honestly, I find the stock EFI just as, if not more, tuneable than SU's in some ways. But I also have a folder full of information I've gathered over the years of all sorts of neat tricks on tuning the EFI. By modern standards people would consider it "workarounds" but then again a carb is a workaround by design. And all that said, I'm ditching the stock EFI in my '75 L28ET S30. Why? Because my particular stuff is just DONE. My AFM is junk, I have a pile of CTS's that vary in spec as much as the daily stock market, my harness needs to be completely redone, all the parts are just plain wore out. They've been abused over the years, make no mistake, but I'm just ready for something else at this point. I have no delusions about the stock system though, it's good for what it is and I don't hate it. I just want to move towards something that's easier to work with FOR ME and don't want to deal with sourcing old used datsun parts. I want to buy NEW parts that are easy to find over the counter, available everywhere, and not overpriced for what they are. Oh, and did I mention NEW? When was the last time anyone here bought a TRULY new AFM? And how much did it cost? Oh, and one more thing michaelp, though Tony D can be a total arse, he has more hands on experience than most of us here, and you might be surprised by how many "modern" efi systems he's had his hands on. Regarding the Z31 6500rpm thing, never once did I see tony say it wouldn't rev over that. He's talking about the ECU's ability to control dwell. That doesn't mean it won't rev up there, just means it's hard to get optimum spark energy and timing up there. The Z31 is far from the only ECU with these limitations. There's ways to get around it, but it's usually an inherent issue with the ignition drivers. This is also why MS1 and MS2 guys will run a heat sink on the case in many cases if they're running all their drivers and turning high RPM. Once you've been at high RPM long enough you'll start getting spark scatter and spark blow out. Keep the drivers cooler, and voila, problem solved. Or you run a low current driver arrangement to LS1 coils and call it done.

If you want big tires without flares lookup clifton's car.

I've been saying things like that for a while now, and it's amazing how few really believe me. In playing with E85 tuning, it's just plain retarded how you can't have real detonation issues with any factory turbocharged vehicle. This is the perfect fuel for people wanting to boost NA motors like the F20C. I've seen 600hp 2 liter motors that at peak HP levels you can adjust timing as much as 3 degrees with zero power difference, and still end up with a huge AFR window. Tuning it with a gasoline mindset like most shops will leave quite a bit of MPG on the table... I've been dreaming of building a turbo MN47 L28 that's purpose built for E85. Goals would be 400whp, 12+:1 compression, 30+mpg, and possible non-intercooled.... And tony, CNG might be awesome, but filling is just plain not-convenient. Of course if you're racing that's not really an issue. But for those who want to DD their project and still take it on long trips, it can very easily become cumbersome from what I've looked into.

If all out power is the goal, running more boost with lower compression is just about ALWAYS the answer. But in the street driven reality, very few guys own weekend warriors with sub 7:1 compression, it's just not practical. If you want and out the arse guess, I'd recommend flat tops + p90 to anything bellow 350whp. Above that I'd say you'd want the extra insurance of the lower compression, but at that point if you're spending any decent money I'd say get custom pistons that have a smaller diameter dish section, allowing the quench of the flat tops with the compression of the dish pistons. Also at that point you'd be wanting to have headwork done with chamber reshaping, and match the pistons to that shape. Or you just do what many people do, buy a junkyard motor and turn up the boost and don't cry when it breaks. The 400whp HAS been borken on junkyard longblocks. I personally don't know I'd do that myself, but hey, there's no "right" approach here.