Gollum

Good ol' 1 Fast Z. Now there's a car to drool over. More work in that head than most people have in their entire cars. Anyways. Yea, $60 is about right if you source it all yourself instead of getting a kit. But consider this, most aftermarket distributors go for over $100 new. Most JDM Honda Dizzy's go for well over $100 and beyond $200 for some. Even $100 for a whole new system that has far more range and control than any dizzy is a wise investment. There's also other options if you want to skip EDIS and go with a different distributor-less ignition setup.

The thing that will help you most in your situation right now is to get plugged in with people in your area that actually know something. People that can help you learn to tune, and double check your work to make sure things are all hooked up right. Example: Your haltech is capable of controlling spark, but there's no way for us here over the internet to tell if it's actually hooked up to do so, nor can we tell if your settings are optimized for your setup. (dwell, trim, and the likes). There's only so much we can teach you over the internet. We can only really show you the path to learning more. And remember, experience almost always equals more than information gleamed from books, let alone the internet. I guess I'm going to retract my previous statement. Don't worry about EDIS right this second unless you want to take the time to do it well. If you just want the car drivable again asap, then first focus on getting what you already have to work right. Haltech should be able to control the stock dizzy well enough for 300 wheel HP and be perfectly streetable. Learn how to datalog and how to read your datalog effectively to be able to tune your car. Read books on EFI tuning, and find people that know their stuff. Don't get discourages easily, otherwise after a few "no"s you'll miss the "yes" out there wanting to help.

But do you have A distributor at all? That's what we want to ditch. An EDIS 6 coil pack should look like this That's what you want. Shouldn't be too hard to install wiring wise if you know your EFI. Lookup in some haltech forums for people who've done the EDIS conversion. The only real complicated parts is fabbing up the crank sensor, and then figuring out how to set up the haltech for EDIS (might be easy, but I've never used haltech). The dish pistons should be hard to blow up as long as you keep the boost mild. Even with flat tops you'd have to have something majorly wrong (which you might have, who knows) in order to blow it up. There are lots of guys that have put impressive numbers down with the flat tops, as they provide a bit more quench to make up for the bump in compression, but due to the slightly smaller chamber they don't need as much timing (but probably only a few degrees). I actually want to move to flat tops if I ever rebuilt my turbo motor.

If you''re using the stock distributor it's not going to be all that accurate though. You want to convert to something like EDIS. This requires the addition of a trigger wheel (you're rebuilding, perfect time to add one), replacement of a crappy coil with coil packs, and removed of the dizzy. The mechanical side isn't so difficult, but you'll want to find other haltech owners that have done it to find out how to set it up correctly. It'll give you infinitely more control over timing and much MUCH more accuracy. You'll also have much stronger spark with the coil packs. And do you have a wideband? I'd get one if you don't. Otherwise tuning is useless. Remember, if you're pushing more fuel than 12:1 under boost and you've got detonation problems than you NEED to look at your timing. You want to run as much timing as you can, but not as the expense of a good fuel mixture (in most cases). I'd also recommend running race gas while you're unsure of the tune when you get it all rebuilt. Don't go driving around a time bomb because you want to drive it more than get it tuned right. Rebuilding engines gets old after a while.

Nice bit of history there. I think the funniest part is that the beauty of the mount design of yours is that it can be fabb'ed up in an afternoon with just some simple scrap pieces if you have them. It's dead simple. And roostmonkey donated one??? Roostmonkey is your troll isn't he? Ah-ha, mystery solved!

I've successfully pulled my oil pump several times without having to remove the sway bar. Just takes some careful planning. Get the front end to the right hight and balance (be CAREFUL, keep at least ONE tire on the ground when offset lifting!), and the sway bar magically droops out of the way. Magic.

Useful spoon information coming in for a landing: The real fix for the detonation is to dump the stock EFI all together and move to something with easy to program fuel AND timing control, like megasquirt. What people have gotten out of the stock system is impressive, to say the least, but there are easier ways to make it all work at most people's budget these days. It really should be noted somewhere in big bold letters when you sign up to this site that we're a community of THINKERS, not just repeaters like most forums. I'm not sure how else to phrase that though and it DOES come across as demeaning. . . . . Oh well.

Wait a second, you had someone donate a RT mount to the project? That's just hilarious if you ask me. Keep it up though, it's looking good.

Impressive numbers to say the least.

Yea, I was just reading an article today on RB Racing's website about how you can't water inject pre-intercooler. Something to ponder for sure, especially since there seems to be quite a few people injecting water pre-turbo that I'm pretty sure have intercoolers.

I'm 100% in agreement with the switch to ethanol. Some of the compression ratios guys are running on turbocharged engines is nuts! Ethanol is still a little hard to get a hold of around here though. Only station close is walnut creek, 15-20 minutes from most people in the bay area. If you don't mind stocking up and having spare barrels around I guess it's not so bad. That's kinda the upside to a separate tank for an alternate fuel. If you have a low level sensor you can just keep out of boost until you have time to refuel your boost gas (or whatever you want to call it). I had originally thought that using an injector would work fine for water injection, but apparently people shy away from it because of rust issues casing injectors to seize, combined with the fact that apparently the high PSI nozzle systems work better for atomization. I'd like to see a direct comparison though.

I too can understand why race teams wouldn't use it. I also see no reason for a race car that spends most of it's time in the power band to have a vtec type technology. There's lots of things the a street car might be more suited to than a race car. And I'm definitely one to believe in the "design the system the best you can to begin with" philosophy, but sometimes "band-aids" don't turn out so bad. I should definitely make it clear though, we plan on running near 100% water on the STI. If we add anything it would be for corrosion resistance. I'm also skeptical for HUGE HP limit gains on the turbo, but I could see 10% being feasible. I currently don't have links, I'll see if who I heard it from has any idea where I could find this "information". I personally called BS when I heard it, but at the same time we're going water injection regardless what's true or not. So here's another question for you though. What does everyone think about a small nozzle that comes on around 3-4 psi and another small nozzle right before the TB to lower chamber temps? Might be worth experimenting with for someone like me trying to dodge the use of an intercooler.

For those wanting to kill some time, here's a good thread on pre-turbo results when it comes to temps http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=531 Spork, no worries, you sound as rough as a baby's butt. One factor that I think helps this work is that the vapor we'll be spraying is already practically atomized already. The dropet size is already so fine it's practically vapor. That being said most of the guys doing it are making sure to be spraying at the center of the impeller, to help prevent possible damage. I think another factor preventing turbo damage is the nature of water. Dust and debris are small pieces of things like ROCK. Even on a microscopic level it's a HARD objection. If someone throws a pebble at you at 50MPH then it's going hurt a bit. When spray hits your face while ridding a seadoo it only stings a little. There's obviously surface tension on water, and people say that "hitting water at 80mph is like hitting concrete" but I think mythbusters did a decent job of killing that farce. The bottom line is that water IS soft at any speed when you compare it to other objects. Now, obviously water CAN be hard, like in water cutting tools. But these are firing a SOLID stream, not a stream the size of droplets. They're also firing at insanely high speeds. Not exactly apples to apples on that front. Oh, and something I read today was a guy who uses pre-turbo injection on his EVO and mentioned that he gets much faster spool time. Theory being that since normally the turbo exit temps are as high as 300F that spraying into the turbo lowers the temp so much, that the increase of density of the ouput means you get into boost that much sooner. And I think I agree to an extent that this makes most sense in cases that your turbo is undersized. But that being said, does anyone have turbo exit temp numbers for even the most oversized turbo? And how many people are brave enough to run without an intercooler praying that their "turbo isn't working too hard"? My friend that's going to install WI on his STI is already nearing the limits of his stock intercooler. He's at around 350 wheel HP. He's already found the limits of the stock turbo and has replaced it. He found the limits of the stock injectors his first day tuning, and those have been replaced. He plans on replacing the intercooler with another top mount, to keep it factory looking (we are in CA after all) and though it will remove some of the flow restriction currently being seen, it will still be a small intercooler unable to extract extreme amounts of heat. In my case I want to add it in order to possibly avoid the need for an intercooler AND using a small turbo (stock T3). That T3 has proven to get people people to 300 wheel HP, but you need a larger intercooler and a rich mixture. I'm not against upgrading the turbo, but I don't plan on going over a small T3/T4 when I do. I figure that trying to spray after the turbo will be fighting a loosing battle. The turbo will eventually heat up more and more and the water will have a harder and harder time keeping up. If I spray preturbo the effort will be to keep the temps of the air AND the turbo manageable to being with, even under heavy track conditions. Well, that's all I have time to write right now. Keep the input coming everyone!

So me and some buddies have been talking about water/meth injection systems, particularity the best ways to apply them to certain applications to best suit their needs and also make it easy to tune/work with and live with. There's been much discussion on WHERE to spray in the intake system, and a friend with a STI is going to add water injection soon and we're both in agreement... ...before the turbo. There isn't a ton of information on the net, which is why I've come here. The consensus is that water injection system of old sprayed too heavy of droplets and could damage your compressor wheel, which is why it wasn't common practice. But modern nozzles with high (3 bar) water pressure have a fine enough mist that they're relatively "turbo safe" (we hope). But the theory goes that if you cool the charge before the turbo then your turbo efficiency goes up. Spray enough water and it's almost pointless to have an intercooler, or most certainly a large one. Some guys are "claiming" as much as a 34-40% turbo efficiency increase (also directly related to the max HP/Flow of the turbo). I plan on going megasquirt eventually still (been saying that for how many years it seems?), and I'm thinking that I might be able to get away with running without an intercooler at elevated boost levels. I'm only going to be shooting for 300-350 wheel hp or so. I want to keep my tire size between 225-245 and not have way too much tire for power, but that's a wholenother topic. Please, everyone, chime in. Let me know what you think about where to place water injection and why. And if you have experience with water injection please share details! Side note~ I'm also interested in water injection for fuel economy reasons as well, but I still haven't quite figured out how that'd work for tuning it in MS.

Woops, didn't see my typo before, where I said 3UZFSE in regards to the flow numbers. Those were definitely 3URFSE heads, there's no such engine as a 3UZFSE (unless you want to hybrid, but I don't think those heads are easily swappable). If the FSE heads CAN flow even 90% of those numbers then serious power can be made for sure. Can the bottom hold it? We'll see. Which brings me to ~ thanks for the input howlermonkey. I'm always interested to get information from those that work on cars at the dealership level. They see the most common issues first, and are usually the first to know the preferred ways to fix problems. Any indication as to why they're having valvetrain issues? Poor geometry? Saved too much money on manufacturing? Abusive tune/drivers?

According to this thread found here: http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/182441-initial-intake-flow-numbers-3ur-fe/ The 3UZFSE head flows around 300CFM at .5" of lift on the intake side. Seems a little hard to believe to me, and we all know that internet data is rarely full proof. Here's the actual figures posted. .100" 105.6 - 104.9 .200" 191.0 - 190.8 .300" 254.0 - 257.3 .350" 273.6 - 279.3 .400" 286.2 - 295.3 .450" 293.8 - 305.7 .500" 299.0 - 310.4 The two sets are after he did a "mild cleanup". The fact he lost low end lift sets of warning bells in my head. I'm not a true expert though. Maybe Braap can chime in. Still though, even if he's 20% off, those are still decent numbers. I should hope so though, considering the head is designed for quite a large cylinder.

Addition - Though the 1UR thus far seems to be a rear sump engine, the 2URFSE pictured here is a mid sump. Pictures via wiki (always wonderfully reliable......) show the 2URGSE from the IS-F. This shows a rear sump design.

Four things will always be certain - War, Love, Taxes and popular cars once old donate their engines to hot rodders. That being said the newer Lexus cars seem to be selling as good as ever around the metropolitan areas like SF. This leads me to conclude that in due time we'll see them drop to just as unbelievably low prices as the current cream of the crop of amazing donors. You can get a whole 1UZFE donor car for well under $3,000, in decent shape, and drive it home! And the infinity VH45DE is in the same boat as well, making it prime swap material. I want this thread to be a source of information dedicated to what we know about the next generation of these rolling organ donors. What we've found from the current UZ - No out of the box tranny options. All came as autos and they all stunk. - Most fitment issues are related to the oil pan, and exhaust clearing the steering - Aftermarket is slightly there, but expensive. Consider yourself largely on your own What I've found about the newer UR engines - All seem to be a true rear sump (yay!) - Thus far I've only seen auto versions (even in the IS F) - Looks like they're being made in more numbers, though more varieties than the old UZ engines Into the meat: The old UZ was offered in three variations. 1UZ, 2UZ, and 3UZ, in 4.0, 4..7, and 4.3 liter displacements respectively. This engine went through many iterations with very little information offered from toyota about it all. For example, the rods changed often through the history of the 1UZFE. The new UZ is currently offered in three variations as well. 1UR, 2UR and 3UR in 4.6, 5.0 and 5.7 liter displacements respectively. A lot of the displacement increase on the lower displacement variations was from bore size, not just stroke.The new king of the range is a whole liter larger, and gains this through stroke alone compared to the old 4.7 liter 2UZ. These following spec listings are listed by displacement step, not number of engine code. Old 1UZ was 87.5 x 82.5 (mm) while the new 1UR is 94 x 83 (mm). Old 3UZ was 91 x 82.5 (mm) while the new 2UR is 94 x 89.5 (mm). Old 2UZ was 94 x 84 (mm) while the new 3UR is 94 x 102 (mm). Note the huge stroke increase on the new engines as displacement ramps up. Like the older engines these new ones probably all have their own blocks that aren't necessarily easily interchanged. I haven't see enough evidence yet, but it looks like the new 1UR is very compact like the 1UZ. Seems as though toyota is still just as dedicated to keeping the head narrow. For the first time there is now also a "G" head on a Lexus V8. This is the 2UR-GSE that's used in the IS-F. Horsepower ratings are good for these new engines, but kinda pointless to me in the grand scheme of things. What I really want is some detailed photos of some tear downs of these engines.

We should start a rally to bring him back! Hey... rally.... we should literally RALLY across the USA to mike's place and bust down the doors all 80's action movie style. "Mike, you've got some work to do."

Thanks for the update. With how good you'd been about having consistent updates I thought you might have died or something.

Well, I'll chime in. I say go for it! My only advice to offer right now is to take it slow and do it to the best of your abilities. Sounds like you have a sound theory/plan on how to tackle this though. Good luck!

irregardlessly for sure. So Tony, how's those muffler bearings doing? In all fairness the reason we all call them "lifters" is because of the nomenclature in the pushrod V8 world, where this is the common name for hydraulic part that allows for compensation for valve lifter/rocker wear, thus reducing how often you need to check valve clearances. It's like if you were calling your 16" rim a 16" wagon wheel. Sure, it's absurd. But ignorance allows the term to be abused. Maybe from now on I'll call them "hydraulic adjusters" just for you Tony.

And to think I have a '83 P90A sitting in my garage, on a shelf, with solid lifters. Nice find though jacob. Mind me asking how much you paid? Head, or whole engine?

Wow, have I really not posted in this thread? Thought I had. I'm kinda glad I haven't though, as opinions tend to change. Good thing they're opinions, and not reality! As much as I hate to admit it, I think the most logical all around swap for just about anyone, is a LSx swap. Affordable, good starting hp, lots of potential, decent on gas for the hp, tunable, low weight, compact, etc, etc, etc, etc. Those that really know me know how much it almost hurts to say that. But it's the truth. As LSx prices drop and drop every year it gets hard and harder to imagine putting a SBC or SBF into a Z, unless you really want that retro factor. That being said, one of the cars I admire the most on here is ZR8ED. I love the VG. Makes plenty of power. Sits way far back. Very light. Very small for a OHC engine. Overall it's a very neat engine that's too often overlooked. I guess I just don't have the stones to actually do it. And here I am driving a L28ET... There's something wrong in this world.

Woops, repost. Didn't realize it went through. Net timed out. Mods, please delete if possible.