NewZed Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I've put over 20,000 miles each on two old high mileage L28 engines, using a variety of modern oils from Quaker State 20-50W to Pennzoil 10-40W (whatever's on sale) and have not seen any signs of camshaft wear. My valve lash doesn't even change significantly. It seems to me that there might have been a problem in the early days of removing zinc from oil formulations but that the oil manufacturers have since fixed the problem. The whole zinc thing is old news and the high zinc formulations are unecessary. Has anyone seen that using today's oils, today, from a reputable supplier like Pennzoil, Quaker State, Valvoline, etc., without added zinc, will wear out an already broken-in camshaft? How many people spend extra money to get added zinc complex in their oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirkland1980 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 My car has 140,000 miles on the original cam lobes and rockers. It's only had Castrol GTX put in since 1994 and is still fine. I agree with you about the zinc. I think they have better wear additives than zinc today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 IMHO, the less zinc issue is way overblown. I spent 26 large on a race engine and the engine builder said Mobil 1 was perfect. No issues in 50+ hours.But... the engine builder for a customer car feels that the zinc issue is significant. He recommends Shell Rotella T Triple Protection, T5 (syn blend) or T6 (full syn). I'm leaning toward the Rotella T6 mostly because its a full synthetic and is almost half the price of Mobil 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianZortiz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 My can grinder wanted me to use valvoline vr1, which has zinc included. I picked up my lash pads from another grinder and gave me a bottle of Elgin zinc additive. He told me it would protect my cam and can run with any oil. Even gave me some backstory of why zinc isn't used in brand new cars. I'm going to take his word since the can isn't that expensive, a lot cheaper than buying 5 quarts of vr1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I dunno, but it was the first I heard about the whole zinc thing when I got my engine back. So I run it. 60$ for a case of Valvoline VR1 with the ZDDP additive I dont think is very expensive at all. http://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-VV205-Racing-Formula-Approved/dp/B000CQ4DEQ/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rejracer Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Many of the high mile motors i've seen have cam wear. Based on that I opted to use it. The problem is most pronounced with lower quality regrind cams during break in. I'm just basing this on reports from what others have experienced, so I would not consider myself an expert. If oil companies have changed oils to compensate, then what is it they have done? I'm not biased either way, just looking for supporting evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 The EP additives that are required in flat-tappet valvetrains have been removed from more modern oils because they aren't needed in a fully rollerized valvetrain. No sliding friction=no EP additives needed. That said, Valvoline VR-1 Synthetic is all I run in the car now, as it still has the flat-tappet additive package in it. I buy it from the local oil distributor for 3.46/qt, but I have to buy a case at a time. It's not expensive stuff guys, you just need to know who to buy from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirkland1980 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Nascar uses flat tappet cams. They use mobil 1 and synergyn oils. Before the R07 engine they built trays to keep the cam submerged in oil. With the proper amount and flow of lube you don't need special oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 The only thing bad that I have heard about the ZDDP additive is that its a killer on catalytic converters. So if you keep your car stock, its not something you want to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianZortiz Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Thanks for the vr1 link, just bought one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 The EP additives that are required in flat-tappet valvetrains have been removed from more modern oils because they aren't needed in a fully rollerized valvetrain. No sliding friction=no EP additives needed. That said, Valvoline VR-1 Synthetic is all I run in the car now, as it still has the flat-tappet additive package in it. I buy it from the local oil distributor for 3.46/qt, but I have to buy a case at a time. It's not expensive stuff guys, you just need to know who to buy from. I think the sequence of events described is backwards here, but is on the right track. Phosphorous & Zinc have been VERY EFFECTIVE additive package elements from day one. In the early 90's phosphorous was removed from large industrial engine oils because of it's tendency to poison catalysts... And HERE is the key. The EPA MANDATED 100,000 mile Catalyst Life, and emissions compliance. AS A RESULT OF THIS zinc & phosphorous were removed from LIGHT DUTY VEHICLE lubricants. (You note the emissions regulations for heavy duty trucks...which the recommended oils come from are quite different!) As OEM's experienced the first wave of 100% failure rates in testing, the engineering alternative to using a 100,000 mile/10 Year Emissions-Compliant Oil was to rollerize the valve train. It was the EMISSIONS REQUIREMENT that drove Zinc out of the Oils, and rollerized valve trains are the result...not vice-versa! Poisioning of catalysts is the issue with the additive package... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted February 28, 2013 Author Share Posted February 28, 2013 That sounds like a reasonable chain of events. Firm deadlines will drive a company to expensive decisions though. I'd be surprised if there weren't parallel efforts by the oil companies to make an oil that would do the job, 100,000 miles, without the P and Zn, but they just ran out of time. When the deadline gets close and the decisions get made a lot of good stuff gets left on the shelf. I wonder if their efforts toward a better oil made it to market anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Stock cams with stock spring will not have a problem with the new oils. High lift, fast lobe lifts, and stronger springs will create cam lobe wear issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 "Generally"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquick260 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I no my dad ran into issues with this when he went to Chevy dual valve springs (LS3) on his air cooled vw motors. He wiped them as early as cam break in, and in first run of the race. It would wipe the cam and pit the lifters. Major problem, did not here about stock setups being much of a problem. He tried the additives and different oils, Valvoline, amsoil. I think he even tried the old GM oil leftover from the 70's. Major issue was the spring rate over the nose and something about the lifter quit spinning. He ended up going with aftermarket engine blocks and roller lifters. When your turning 9000+ rpms he needed to have springs that would hold the valves shut ,, ie no valve float. I know there are oils out there that have added the zinc, Valvoline and amsoil. A good preventative for what you have your hard earned money invested in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95i4 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 The EP additives that are required in flat-tappet valvetrains have been removed from more modern oils because they aren't needed in a fully rollerized valvetrain. No sliding friction=no EP additives needed. That said, Valvoline VR-1 Synthetic is all I run in the car now, as it still has the flat-tappet additive package in it. I buy it from the local oil distributor for 3.46/qt, but I have to buy a case at a time. It's not expensive stuff guys, you just need to know who to buy from. Wish I had a hook-up like this, Im paying $60/case through amazon... it is nice just having it show up at my door though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Just call around town and ask. It's not like they are going to hunt you down for trying to evade the "racecar" tax... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Just call around town and ask. It's not like they are going to hunt you down for trying to evade the "racecar" tax... You' ve never filled out a California State Income Tax Return, have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Race car tax? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 No lie, people, there is a line on the CA Tax form for recovering SALES TAX for "items bought on the internet, out of state and brought into the state, ..." Luckily Ohio has full reciprocity with CA, and the Tax collected in OH will not be RE-PAID in CA upon registration of the Vehicle there! Oblay EEmay, Aliforniakay! Good thing I don't buy anything outside the state. Always traveling for work, long days. Never get a chance to shop. Good thing, too! Don't need more accounting headaches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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