Frame rails too far gone to repair?

[ZigzagZ]

Cross-post from Fabrication/Welding. 

I'm looking at buying this '75 280z. The biggest downside is one of the frame rails has abut an 18" stretch of chewed out metal. Here's what it looks like https://imgur.com/a/TkbKOEo.

Are the rails too banged up and rusted to be repaired? And would repairing them bee too costly? Currently the owner is asking 8500 for the car. The only other rust is a little bit in the upper part of the passenger footwell/firewall

[pamato]

not too bad.. I'd use that issue with the frame rails to drive down the price.

The replacement frame rails aren't that expensive but COULD be costly to have installed if you can't do it yourself

https://zcardepot.com/collections/sheet-metal/products/frame-rail-sheet-metal-replacement-240z-70-73

 

[primaz]

It should not be that expensive to have a good body shop install those Z car depo type Sheetmetal but another option while more expensive it better if you build the car for more high performance.  I frame railed my 240z which provides a visual that looks like the stock look but provide incredible strength and even more than many roll bars.  A good body shop or repair shop that can weld could do this somewhere between $1500 to $2500?  FYI, besides the stiffness this saved my life and prevented my 240z from being totaled; I got rear ended by a car while stopped in traffic and the unibody was undamaged even with a hit from the rear from a Prius going 50 mph!  Without those rails the car would have been totaled for sure.

[ZigzagZ]

2 hours ago, primaz said:

It should not be that expensive to have a good body shop install those Z car depo type Sheetmetal but another option while more expensive it better if you build the car for more high performance.  I frame railed my 240z which provides a visual that looks like the stock look but provide incredible strength and even more than many roll bars.  A good body shop or repair shop that can weld could do this somewhere between $1500 to $2500?  FYI, besides the stiffness this saved my life and prevented my 240z from being totaled; I got rear ended by a car while stopped in traffic and the unibody was undamaged even with a hit from the rear from a Prius going 50 mph!  Without those rails the car would have been totaled for sure.

Thanks for the pics and message. Did you use the Z Car Depo style sheetmetal or did you have a shop custom fab the metal? I may do just what you did and look into having a shop upgrade it for higher performance.

 

The only thing I'm concerned about is the drivers side frame rail is rusted as in my pics and the drivers side door just barely not aligning. It can be tough to close and the top of the window gets pinched to the door frame, presumably from the frame causing the body to bend in a bit.

Edited January 9, 2020 by ZigzagZ

[idahoskiguy]

Personally I would not buy this car based on the pics you provided. Better cars are out there.

[Exposed]

I have to agree with idahoskiguy, for the pictures posted I cannot see the car being worth 8500. I can only imagine what is under the paint.

[rturbo 930]

No, that frame rail is absolutely not too far gone to repair, and those of us on the east coast would consider that to be pretty minor rust. The car is probably overpriced though unless it's otherwise mint condition. Based on your location I'd be surprised if the car has really serious rust issues hiding beneath the paint, though there may be more rust than you can immediately see. 

[grannyknot]

The part that is rusted out in your photo is the floor pan support or rail, inexpensive and not that hard to replace, http://www.datsunzparts.com/products.html 

Charlie Osbourne of Zedd Findings makes them and many other pieces to repair our cars.  That rust is very fixable, show us more pics.

[primaz]

19 hours ago, ZigzagZ said:

Thanks for the pics and message. Did you use the Z Car Depo style sheetmetal or did you have a shop custom fab the metal? I may do just what you did and look into having a shop upgrade it for higher performance.

 

The only thing I'm concerned about is the drivers side frame rail is rusted as in my pics and the drivers side door just barely not aligning. It can be tough to close and the top of the window gets pinched to the door frame, presumably from the frame causing the body to bend in a bit.

 

My car did not have rust or issues with the stock rails.  I used Dando's Automotive that specializes on Z cars; they have two ways of doing their custom frame rails.  My Red 240Z used their "U" shaped steel rails where they are boxed by welding them both under and inside the car.  Now most of the cars they do they use an already boxed rail and just weld that on the bottom of the car which cuts the amount of labor a lot.

 

As others have said it appears your car can be repaired but it does sound scary to me that you said, "window gets pinched to the door frame"?  On Z cars until you bead blast the undercarriage and the rest of the body you will never know where all the rust may reside.  I would really recommend you check the more common areas of rust to see if you can tell the conditions of those areas to decide if the cost is good.  The areas I typically see is the rear rockers before the rear wheels, the rear hatch (when you open the hatch look carefully at the channels and seams), bottom of the front fenders where often the drain plugs get junk preventing water from escaping.  Z cars are uni-body so no frame but they can be repaired it is just how extensive the bodywork is required.  If you feel the car is a good buy, fix the stock rails first and ideally if you are ready to do the entire bodywork then bead blast the entire car and see what areas might have had hidden rust.  Then fix those areas and if you can afford it put the rails I did as that is great for performance and safety.   

[ZigzagZ]

12 minutes ago, primaz said:

 

My car did not have rust or issues with the stock rails.  I used Dando's Automotive that specializes on Z cars; they have two ways of doing their custom frame rails.  My Red 240Z used their "U" shaped steel rails where they are boxed by welding them both under and inside the car.  Now most of the cars they do they use an already boxed rail and just weld that on the bottom of the car which cuts the amount of labor a lot.

 

As others have said it appears your car can be repaired but it does sound scary to me that you said, "window gets pinched to the door frame"?  On Z cars until you bead blast the undercarriage and the rest of the body you will never know where all the rust may reside.  I would really recommend you check the more common areas of rust to see if you can tell the conditions of those areas to decide if the cost is good.  The areas I typically see is the rear rockers before the rear wheels, the rear hatch (when you open the hatch look carefully at the channels and seams), bottom of the front fenders where often the drain plugs get junk preventing water from escaping.  Z cars are uni-body so no frame but they can be repaired it is just how extensive the bodywork is required.  If you feel the car is a good buy, fix the stock rails first and ideally if you are ready to do the entire bodywork then bead blast the entire car and see what areas might have had hidden rust.  Then fix those areas and if you can afford it put the rails I did as that is great for performance and safety.   

 

Yeah... the door may be a bit worrisome. It needs a decent shove to get it to shut completely. The chrome on the door window gets pretty snug with the chrome on the side window. By pinched to the door frame, I mean it will sometimes not sit flush at the top unless closed a certain way, if that makes sense. As if the door is mounted just slightly too high. The current owner claims the PO removed the door to repaint it and didn't assemble it correctly.

 

I usually check the typical areas for rust. The rear rockers had some bubbled up areas but no holes. Hatch channels looked great and nothing under the battery tray. The only active rust I spotted was between the passenger foot well and firewall area where I could pick off flakes of rust. What worries me is what else may be underlying that I couldn't catch. I was hesitant about the car already but it seems clear I would be better off finding a better one unless I could significantly drive the price down. I appreciate the info.

[primaz]

23 hours ago, ZigzagZ said:

 

Yeah... the door may be a bit worrisome. It needs a decent shove to get it to shut completely. The chrome on the door window gets pretty snug with the chrome on the side window. By pinched to the door frame, I mean it will sometimes not sit flush at the top unless closed a certain way, if that makes sense. As if the door is mounted just slightly too high. The current owner claims the PO removed the door to repaint it and didn't assemble it correctly.

 

I usually check the typical areas for rust. The rear rockers had some bubbled up areas but no holes. Hatch channels looked great and nothing under the battery tray. The only active rust I spotted was between the passenger foot well and firewall area where I could pick off flakes of rust. What worries me is what else may be underlying that I couldn't catch. I was hesitant about the car already but it seems clear I would be better off finding a better one unless I could significantly drive the price down. I appreciate the info.

 

 

If you are interested in a 240z with no rust, R200, 280Z engine, 5 speed, very good mechanically that just needs paint, I would change interior color as it is white, I know of one that I believe he would sell it for around $3500 more than that rusty 280Z, let me know.  PM me  I tried to send you a message but the site is having some issues so I could not get to your profile for some reason?

 

[gnosez]

Should you wish to get the 280 then the zcardepot 240 rails won't fit your Z. The floors on a 280 are contoured not flat so a frame rail must be cut to match those contours. The ones sold by Zeddfindings are made to fit the floors they make which are also flat. Bad Dog Parts makes contoured rails specifically for 280s.