Front Suspension Swap question

[Careless]

just checkin out the other thread about 240sx IRS being swapped in for extra camber correction and added strength of the R200 diff, and CV axles.

 

now im wondering about the front.

 

I know the rear s13/14/z32 irs parts can be used in the rear when the subframe is fabbed in, but what about the front?

 

is there any better upgrade for the standard suspension that would allow the use of the same coilovers as the rear? i mean, if i wanted to order a set of Tein EDFC's for s13/14, what would i do with the front coilovers if i were to get them as a set??

 

is there a way to put the front suspension onto the Z from the s13/14?

what are some viable options.

 

The intent for the car would be somewhat street driven on weekends maybe, and some light track duty when my friend holds events at which i do photography at, so i'll wanna show up in something camera ready myself that looks good through the twisties =D

 

any ideas? If i could use the EDFC on all 4's that would probably be my most ideal setup. i like the idea of a stepper motor to control dampening.

[blueovalz]

This is not an answer to your question, but instead a comment on the S13 front suspension. I've got both cars, and my current dilemma with the S13 is that it is (has been for years) lowered to what I call perfect ride height for a street car (not excessive by any means), but there is no "short" struts for this stuation (the top of the strut is about 1" from the top of the upper spring perch. Currently I am looking at a way to insert the 8610 or 8611 into the tube and thus shorten the tube to gain some extra compliance.

 

Most of us have lowered out cars, and this is something to consider in your decision.

[Careless]

This is not an answer to your question' date=' but instead a comment on the S13 front suspension. I've got both cars, and my current dilemma with the S13 is that it is (has been for years) lowered to what I call perfect ride height for a street car (not excessive by any means), but there is no "short" struts for this stuation (the top of the strut is about 1" from the top of the upper spring perch. Currently I am looking at a way to insert the 8610 or 8611 into the tube and thus shorten the tube to gain some extra compliance.

 

Most of us have lowered out cars, and this is something to consider in your decision.[/quote']

 

but this applies if im trying to use a shock tube or a short stroke insert setup, correct?!

 

wouldnt Coil-Over kits be a little different, as it's a sealed unit with a coil around it, and perhaps even a helper spring if you want.?

[blueovalz]

I want the full stroke (an assumption of about 6" is what I'm guessing here) of my strut, but at its present lowered ride height, the strut is compressed to about 75% if its normal operating window. So now I have very little bound, and a lot of rebound. If I shorten the strut tube and use a short body strut insert that still has the 6" of travel, then I can lower the top of the strut tube to a point that puts the present ride height at about 50% of its operating window, which now leaves me with plenty of up and down travel without binding. All of this is true no matter what kind of spring configuration you use. Yes, I use a high rate spring and a stiff strut insert to prevent the current set-up from ever hitting the stop at the top, but the ride is not what I desire for the street. Shortening the strut would allow a softer ride with full compliance in the suspension.

[Careless]

have you considered using a helper spring with a coilover setup? it allows two different spring rates. the softer one would compress before the harder one takes action.

 

usually for stability almost like adjustable shocks they use on paris dakar, only without the gas/oil and about as much as 10% of the technology involved.

[rb26zed]

I am doing the swap you are talking about right now. I used the whole hub, brake and arm assembly from an s13 (with r33 discs and callipers) with a racing logic coilover. I had to redrill the strut towers to accept the camber tops, swap the left to the right and vice versa because the s13 has a rear mounted steering rack and have made adjustable s13 lca's and adjustable s13 caster rods both are on car adjustable and use rod ends. It will bolt straight up to the original lca's and caster rods. So to answer your question it is possible and is not a very difficult swap.

[LS1 240Z]

I am doing the swap you are talking about right now. I used the whole hub, brake and arm assembly from an s13 (with r33 discs and callipers) with a racing logic coilover. I had to redrill the strut towers to accept the camber tops, swap the left to the right and vice versa because the s13 has a rear mounted steering rack and have made adjustable s13 lca's and adjustable s13 caster rods both are on car adjustable and use rod ends. It will bolt straight up to the original lca's and caster rods. So to answer your question it is possible and is not a very difficult swap.

 

 

this is the part where i demand pictures

[rb26zed]

this is the part where i demand pictures

ha ha no problem i'll take some and get them up asap.

[Careless]

I am doing the swap you are talking about right now. I used the whole hub, brake and arm assembly from an s13 (with r33 discs and callipers) with a racing logic coilover. I had to redrill the strut towers to accept the camber tops, swap the left to the right and vice versa because the s13 has a rear mounted steering rack and have made adjustable s13 lca's and adjustable s13 caster rods both are on car adjustable and use rod ends. It will bolt straight up to the original lca's and caster rods. So to answer your question it is possible and is not a very difficult swap.

is it possible to use the techtoy tuning rear strut mounts for the front instead, and forego the pillow ball mounts of a s13 coilover set and use that as a camber adjustment guide instead? or should one drill a large hole and weld up the exisiting ones, and then drill out new bolt holes just as they appear on the s13 strut tower,.... and then use the coilover's triangular shape pillow ball mounts like you would on an s13 as well?

 

i would LOVE pics of this if you could provide them =)

 

i have access to a gajillion million eleventy billion S13 parts that I could buy using my trade services =)

 

one last edit:

 

those Lca's and caster rods you made... are they the same as aftermarket s13 ones that i can get from say... kazama or cusco or some other brand? cause i can get deals on those too.

 

and they are fully adjustable and i think they could survice a nuclear blast, they're so huge. just wondering if yours are a whole world of a difference and if aftermarket ones would suffice.

 

pics pics pics =)

 

I thinks we got a good thread going on here... and you can say hi to my cousins in australia for me too!

 

 

OK, very last edit:

 

is it too much to ask to keep this thread up to date with regular checkups by me, as i am getting my zee on the weekend (hopefully) and i would like to upgrade the suspension first and do whatever neccessary mods to handle the power of the engine i will be building.

 

this IS THE FIRST thread of it's kind here, as i've looked for similar ones, but they don't deal with suspension swaps, moreso than just factory upgrades made by aftermarket, and not cross-platform...

 

cheers to contributors.

[rb26zed]

is it possible to use the techtoy tuning rear strut mounts for the front instead, and forego the pillow ball mounts of a s13 coilover set and use that as a camber adjustment guide instead? or should one drill a large hole and weld up the exisiting ones, and then drill out new bolt holes just as they appear on the s13 strut tower,.... and then use the coilover's triangular shape pillow ball mounts like you would on an s13 as well?

 

I found it quite easy to drill the new holes and cut an opening for the camber adjusting bolts where the original holes were. I suppose it would be possible to do it the techtoy way though, but I have not seen them before so it would just depend if the coilover you choose will accept the techtoy top.

 

i would LOVE pics of this if you could provide them =)

 

Working on that now.

 

those Lca's and caster rods you made... are they the same as aftermarket s13 ones that i can get from say... kazama or cusco or some other brand? cause i can get deals on those too.

 

and they are fully adjustable and i think they could survice a nuclear blast, they're so huge. just wondering if yours are a whole world of a difference and if aftermarket ones would suffice.

 

The aftermarket Lca's should be fine but since the s13 has a front mounted caster rod they are shorter than the zed and to gain caster are designed to go shorter you could use them but would need to replace the threaded tube section with a longer piece. I used Afco 5/8 unf threaded tube cut them to size and tapped them to suit and got some caster rods from an old 80's skyline had a machine shop cut them down and thread the ends.

 

I also converted to 5 stud by using nissan maxima rear hubs with spacers, you could avoid spacers by using s14 front hubs but these are hard to get over here.

 

My parts list for the caster rods was, $AU

caster rods (almost any nissan ones will do) $0

machine and thread caster rods $80 (pair)

rod end 5/8 unf female $50 (pair)

threaded tube $25

taps to rethread tube R/H 5/8 unf $20

L/H 5/8 unf $200

locking nuts $2

5/8 bolts for rod end $5

3/4 bolts to hold clevis to original caster rod hole $5

5/8 id alloy tube for spacers $5

clevis cut from 2" square tube

 

I had plenty of other use for the taps to justify their price

[rb26zed]

pics http://groups.msn.com/rb26zed/shoebox.msnw?Page=1

[johnc]

have you considered using a helper spring with a coilover setup? it allows two different spring rates. the softer one would compress before the harder one takes action.

 

Not true if you are talking about dual coil setups. Both srpings compress, just at different linear rates.

[tube80z]

I am doing the swap you are talking about right now. I used the whole hub, brake and arm assembly from an s13 (with r33 discs and callipers) with a racing logic coilover. I had to redrill the strut towers to accept the camber tops, swap the left to the right and vice versa because the s13 has a rear mounted steering rack and have made adjustable s13 lca's and adjustable s13 caster rods both are on car adjustable and use rod ends.

 

I went and looked at the pics. One thing you need to be aware of doing this conversion is that you're steering geometry is going to have issues. Look at the angle when the steering arm is in rear steer mode and then look at the angle it is on front steer mode. It looks to me like you now have an anti-ackerman mod.

 

Are you doing this to get a two piece strut or better brake options? From a geometry standpoint I don't see this as an upgrade over the Z strut, unless I'm missing something. I'm very curious though.

 

Cary

[JMortensen]

Wow, that is pretty severe anti-Ackerman. I wonder if you couldn't find another Nissan front steer type knuckle to use.

[rb26zed]

That is just a test bolt up to get the car rolling to take to the cage shop. I plan to raise the inner Lca mount, use spacers where needed and that is not the steering rack or crossmember that will be used. Im still waiting for my custom rack and want to wait till I have all the parts before I focus on the geometry. The rack will not be in the position of the one pictured. I should also point out that the coilovers are set to near their lowest possible setting at the moment, for no reason, they will be set correctly later as will the camber, caster and toe.

 

I have read quite a few of your ackerman and geometry threads jmortenson,tube80z and johnc and do plan to incorperate alot of your ideas into it before final fit. The main reasons for the swap were brakes, bolt in coilovers and 5 stud.

[S30Z Bushido]

keep us posted, im very interested in seeing the final setup.

[JustinOlson]

Any update on this?

[Nismo280zEd]

isn't the S13 double wishbone?

[260DET]

S13 has struts front, Z32 like multilink rear suspension. For shorter front struts, lower ride, Tein for one do them in a coilover setup.

[mull]

 

Looks pretty similar to the 240z...