blue72 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Ooh, those pinholes can be a real pain. Hope all goes back together well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 Got the block dissasembled today in-between running the gundrilling machines here at the shop. Should have it on the mill in a couple hours, and start boring out the original bore, for a sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Am I wrong in thinking that this block failure is a good sign? I see these pinholes as a sign that the "weak point" in the engine as a whole is not in your cylinder head, which would be a good thing. Granted, this means that once you get a solid bottom end under it this weak point is eliminated and the next weakest point falls into place, whatever that may be... but like I said, am I on-track in thinking of this failure in such a positive light, or is it more likely just a random, unpredictable failure of the shortblock in a way that shows nothing of the durability of the cylinder head? What I am saying is that any problem, even your camshaft issues, that ISN'T directly attributed to your young frankenstein head ("It's from a man called Abby Normal!") seems to me to be good indications for the head project itself. I have to thank you for being so public with this project, man. It is awesome to see the differences between the project during the build phase, and now your progress through the first few months of running... because something like this isn't going to be "finished" for three, four, ten, who knows how many years of ownership. You are only one man, and I am sure that the room for research and development of an L-block with a head like what you've built (and others conceived and are trying to build) is IMMENSE; far more than you can figure out in a whole lifetime of dedicated driving, modding, tuning, and researching.. so in a way, until the head is scrapped, this project is never finished. Have you considered trying this head on a smaller-displacement engine for higher revs? Not that I am suggesting you rebuild your block now to less than 3.1, but I am curious how it would effect other shortblock configurations as well. I am picturing tonyd's bonneville motor with a head like this and wondering what 9500 RPM would sound like... PM me if you have even thought about it, because I have some shortblock ideas that might prove interesting, and for originality's sake I don't want to talk too loudly about my ideas, lest someone else build my block before I get a chance to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 Yea I could be hush hush about the problems that I come across, but why? Main reason the pin-hole was there, is because people dont like to run freakin antifreeze, and it just KILLS alluminum. I really wish I would of looked through dozens of heads, till I found a set of heads that was flawless, so I would not have the problems to deal with later. I have thought about building a smaller engine, but it will never make the power or torque that this engine makes. This motor pulls to 8500 as it is, and Possibly has more in it (although have not pushed it more than that). I have had this problem in number two cylinder for about 4 months now, even before I took it on a 1000+ mile trip to california, plus racing. So in a way I am glad I found the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Sorry to hear about the setbacks. Seems like the engine just wants to live with you in the shop lately. Me and rudypoochris had the chance to talk with some of the origonal BRE team members, and we talked to floyd link (one of the engine builders on the team) about your insane project. He seemed quite impressed. And the team as a whole, brock included, were very impressed with what power people were getting nowdays and admit they were making very little by comparison. In fact floyd is still tinkering with these engines (he told us it was a project for his son's Z car) and he's making at the wheels around what they used to be making at the crank. And the numbers were surprisingly low. He was 100% ALL FOR modern EFI and thought it was basically the only way to go these days. I thought I'd share that with you just so you know that someone who's been an engine builder for race cars for years, and successful at that, thinks your project is impressive and interesting. Fight the good fight. This is still by far my #1 most anticipated project on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Just a fyi, I remember someone mentioning rear of the crank breaking above 8500 on a extream engine build. I believed it happened several times. Might want to look that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 All engines create different harmonics, based on impulses, weights, speeds, etc. To say that a crank will break at or above 8500 is sorta miss-leading. Maybe that one persons build hit a bad harmonic at 8500, but the next guys build wont hit that terrible harmonic untill 9800. I have already magnifluxed the crank, and found no problems so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 If I owned a car that was repeatedly breaking off the back end of the crank, I would be looking at engine/transmission alignment along with the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, pilot bearing, and trans input shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 It was an extream engine built for high rpm. I searched for the thread and can not find it. The person who mentioned it was of the higher quality like your self. Anyhow it was just an fyi, I will look later, again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveosupremeo Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 on the datsun spirit website he mentions its a popular mod in racing in japan to mill about 6mm off of the back of the crank and I believe space the starter forward, dunno about clutch alignement and such, it wasn't discussed, but it was supposed to help with stock crank probs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 If you are going to sleeve the block, get one of those LD blocks and start sleeving that. longer rods would be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 No, way am I spending thousands of dollars on more rods and pistons! Especially for the 2% or less gain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I am picturing tonyd's bonneville motor with a head like this and wondering what 9500 RPM would sound like... 1) the head on the Bonneville engine is not limited to 9500 rpm it's simply where we shifted gears while working out actual real-world acceleration runs. It is a work in progress, there are several people who know how high that engine has actually revved on the dyno while doing 'float checks'---we haven't floated yet, BTW... 2) the head on the Bonneville engine is the same one we ran on the 2.8 motor, it's nothing special in preparation, and truthfully has far less exotic materials than many other 'street' engines I have seen overbuilt for the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I was magnifluxing the block, and found a crack in number two cylinder wall, sonic tester reveals about .135" thickness on that side of the bore, so I am almost thinking water got through somwhere else, and hydrolocked that cylinder. Remember I said the Japanese were splitting overbored N42's under high boost conditions. The hype surrounding megabored engines is revealed for what it really is when you start pumping serious horsepower. Remember Electromotive was making 700+ with no more than a standard SCCA-Style overbore to clean up the cylinders round, and a standard stroke crank... The Japanese had a saying 20+ years ago: 3.2 for Normal, but Tabo-San-Gata lives forever... Boost, not bore. If you want valve unshrouding, notch the block accordingly. The thicker walls will pay dividends under increased cylinder pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Toque distinquishes cylinder pressure. Our torque is not near as high as other builds have been , etc. The crack, may have been a flaw in the casting, or a stress line from something else. The reason I did NOT go with another block, is that the other five cylinders have been proven to work, so may as well fix the weakest link, and proceed on. It cracked on the pressure side, right where it is not siameesed with the number three cylinder. I have had this problem for a few thousand miles, and that is why I kept getting a miss on number two cylinder for months. "high boost" I have barely tapped 18 PSI, thats farly low boost, yet it still yeilds high HP numbers at this low boost. I make more HP at that boost level, than the other "big build" that lives in california does at a higher boost! The material that sleeves are made out of now a days are alot better, higher nickel content than castings used to be in the old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The Japanese had a saying 20+ years ago: 3.2 for Normal, but Tabo-San-Gata lives forever... Well I remmeber from when I was a kid living in Japan that... San is three. So turbo(guessing) 3(liter?) ____ lives forever? Good one Tony... Brian, It would be incredible to see what that head does on a 100% stock fresh L28ET bottom end with cast pistons at stock boost just to have a baseline number. (maybe pistons clearanced for valves?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 Well, to sort of give a heads up on whats happining now. I got the Block sleaved, Re-Oring, and the lower end re-assembled. I had replaced 6 valves in the head, and re-did another valve job. I have the head bolted back down on the block now. I found that the lower single row timing chain was stretched when I tore it apart. I have since made a custom lower timing chain, and gears, etc. Should me much more bullet proff now. I have also changed how the head gets it oiling a bit also, just to make maintenence a bit easier. Many of you guys witnessed me at the last MSA show, trying to get the one freaking oil line back on the head, so now I wont have that problem when guys beg me to take the valve cover off at a show! I have since welded 4130 stubs to the cast iron camshafts, so now the side load is all taken up by actually steel now, instead of cast iron. This will double the camshaft strength. Now the steel, welded to the cast iron will be the driver. Should have the engine back in the car here in the next couple weeks, I hope. I am sorta going through some legal crap right now, and the state might take my drivers license away for a year, so Not sure when I can drive it again though! I might have to have someone else drive it to and from the dyno/track! Ill post some pics shortly, of the new timing setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Year? Beckons me back to my past. Great to hear she coming back to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Gata is somehow related to 'engine' the L-Engine was referred to as 'L-Gata' in Japan. Hence, Tabo-San-Gata is basically 'The Turbo 3-Liter L Engine' and dey runs forever'.... As for the sleeves being of higher quality...that may be a herring. Metal analysis would be needed. The L-Blocks were of extremely high quality compared to many other vehicles, even today. Sleeves are constructed in the foundry differently, for better density as well. They may be 'better' than the original early L-Blocks, but then again, they may not... Sleeves make repairs easier in the future, though, for sure. Especially if you want to keep a set displacement. The Nissan S20 had sleeves installed from the factory for just that purpose. Replace pistons, sleeves, and rings and remain within your racing displacement class (1998ccs against a 2Liter maximum!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share Posted September 22, 2008 Well this past saturday I got her back on the road. Man my new timing setup, is SO quiet now. I hate loud timing systems, and I worked especially hard this time to make it super quiet as well as rock solid cam timing. The new HKS cams, seem to make good power as well. They are 264 duration, and 9.6mm Lift. Maybe once it gets a bit cooler here in Phoenix, I will get her on the dyno, and see if I can make my 750 RWHP figure . Well here are some pics of the setup now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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