vg30dett weight vs vh45dett weight

[Guest Swifty Devil]

hey guys im weighing up the pros and cons of buying a vg30dett rebuilding it and turning over 300rwkw? thats about 400hp at the wheels.

however i feel the costs would be around the same to buy a 300 NA rolling shell and slam in a vh45 and make it vh45dett! without rebuilding the motor of course.

id be running moderate boost levels of 10-12psi.

all the fabrication would be done by a professional shop and same with the rebuild if i went down the vg30dett route.

 

im mainly wondering which engine would be heavier, i can handle if the vh45dett would be around the same weight, im just wondering how much it would affect handling and if it would be lighter to any degree.

[260DET]

Don't know about the weights but a JDM VG30DET is a better proposition than the TT for what you want. Single GT35R and off you go

[Boosted 70z]

The vh45de is around 100Lbs lighter than the vg30dett.

[RTz]

The vh45de is around 100Lbs lighter than the vg30dett.

 

Have anything to back that up?

[BRAAP]

WOW! The VH45DE V-8 is 100 lbs lighter than the VG30DE V-6! I’ll be honest with you, I’m having a hard time swallowing that one. Do you have any reference or any theory to support that claim? I for one would love nothing more than to find out that my ’96 VH45DE is lighter than my ’93 VG30DE! (I can’t say why that is, yet….)

 

Here is just my hypothetical guesstimate. I may be WAY off, I may be spot on, at any rate, I’d be willing to bet that the VH45DE long block weighs more than the VG30DE long block.

 

VH45DE, (Nissan built 4.5L V-8) vs VG30DE, (Nissan built 3.0L V-6), long block vs long block weight.

 

Ok, The VH45DE has two more cylinders so therefore the engine is longer. The V-8 block is aluminum, the V-6 is iron. Being as the V-8 is supporting two more iron sleeved cylinders, one more main web, lets call the blocks a wash.

 

The V-8 crank is heavier! It has one more throw on it that supports 2 rods, and it is longer, i.e. more forged steel. I say the V-8 crank weighs between 5 and 7 lbs more than the V-6.

 

Pistons and rods, each should weigh comparable. The V-6 has 6 of these, the V-8 has 8, by default, these components are heavier for the V-8. I say the 2 extra piston and rod assemblies add 10-15 lbs more weight total.

 

Cylinder heads. The heads are very similar by design, but the V-8 has 8 more valves, springs, cam lobes, valve seats, valve guides, etc. The had casting is longer etc. By default the V-8 heads are heavier. I say the V-8 heads combined add between 20-30 lbs.

 

 

Ok, by my conservative, purely hypothetical speculative guesstimation, the VH45DE long block weighs between 35 and 52 lbs more than the VG30DE long block.

 

If the VH45DE long block is lighter, than the VG30DE long block , well, I’ll … I’ll… I’ll do something publicly embarrassing.

[tube80z]

Have anything to back that up?

 

He used bathroom scales

[Boosted 70z]

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=185771

From what I understand the vg is somewhere in the mid 500lbs.

The reason would be that the vg has an iron block and the vh has an aluminum block.

[RTz]

He used bathroom scales

 

[G.I.jonas]

He also titled the thread vg30dett.With two turbos and all the goodies to go along with it that adds some weight.

 

The DETT is about 440lbs (N/A is 420) and the 5-speed is 120lbs.....carry the seven, divide by the width of my a**, add Thursday......I come up with 560lbs.

 

I should know for sure as im putting one of these engines in my car myself but this is what someone here told me.I have read elsewhere however several times that the vg30dett is 530 lbs and is heavier than vh

[260DET]

The VG's iron block weighs ~105 pounds so 530 pounds for the whole engine sounds way high to me.

[BRAAP]

Ok fellas. I’m still NOT buying that the VH45DE is lighter than theVG30DE! I am having a real hard time wrapping my feeble little mind around this and acknowledging that the VH is lighter than the VG, no matter what those other forum guys are saying… Just because I do own a ’96 Q-45, of which I am in the process of removing its VH45DE this weekend, and a ’93 Z-32, probably means nothing in regards to this thread, but I do look these engines over regularly and make somewhat of an effort to maintain them, and also as a professional engine builder, I have worked on the various parts, mostly the heads, of both VG30DE’s and VH45DE’s. I am not submitting actual proof or actual weights, (If I use my scales to weigh the VH45DE engine once I remove it, it wont matter any how ), but I am submitting to you my theory as to why I feel the VH couldn’t possibly by lighter than the VG. Though… I have been known to be WAY off target at times…

 

 

To those who think the VH45DE is lighter than the VG30DE, please answer the following questions and offer explanations with at least some realistic theory, if not actual hard data to back up your claims if they differ from what I have presented for you to ponder…

 

1) The VH has 2 more pistons and rods. That is one third more pistons and rods than the VG engine. That would also mean that the total weight of the pistons and rods of the VH45DE should be 1/3 again heavier than the VG30DE pistons and rods. Do you agree or disagree with that? If not, please explain.

 

 

2) The heads of the VH45DE are 1/3 longer, (1/3 is not just a little, 1/3 is a substantial amount MORE mass), than the VG heads so in theory any how, the VH45DE heads should have approx 1/3 more mass, i.e. approx 1/3 heavier again, than the VG30DE heads, (which are NOT light heads by any stretch! Just pick up a fully assembled VG30DE head and you’ll know what I mean). So, again, the VH45 heads are guaranteed to be heavier. Do you agree or disagree with that? If not, please explain.

 

3) The VH45DE crank is longer than the VG30DE crank. It IS heavier! Do you agree or disagree with that? If not, please explain.

 

4) The Aluminum vs Iron block issue. In the domestic V-8 world, the aluminum vs iron block weight debate has been waged since the very first one was ever cast. No one disagrees with the fact that the aluminum blocks of a similar type engine are generally lighter, it is by “how much lighter”, that is usually in dispute as those aluminum blocks are also cast thicker to offset for its lack of tensile strength vs its iron counterpart. So, yes, a comparable VG30DE block, if it were cast in aluminum, would be little lighter than this iron counterpart. Now add 2 more cylinders to that aluminum block with iron sleeves, make that same aluminum block 1/3 again longer than the V6 version, which again, should mean that it is 1/3 again heavier than its comparable aluminum V-6 counterpart with all else being equal, that V-8 block will be heavier, by approx 1/3 again more weight. Now being as the VG30DE V-6 is actually iron not aluminum, that will offset SOME of the weight, but I feel that it wont offset all the difference that the material difference offers. My guess is that the VH45DE aluminum block is still heavier than the iron VG30DE, but I’ll give you guys the benefit of the doubt here and call it a wash, i.e. the blocks weigh approx. the same. Do you buy that? If not, please explain. (I’m sure someone will find lots of big holes in that theory so shoot away…)

 

5) The VH45DE utilizes 2 separate timing chains, not a single light weight timing belt. 2 timing chains are heavier then one timing belt. Do you agree with that? If not, please explain.

 

6) The VH45DE utilizes cast aluminum timing chain covers vs the plastic timing belt covers for the VG30DE. Do you agree or disagree that VH timing chain covers are indeed heavier? If not, please explain.

 

7) Intake manifolds, both are pretty big. I think the VH probably weighs more, but I’ll concede to them weighing similarly. Same goes for the exhaust manifolds, water pumps, and oil pumps.

 

That pretty much wraps up the majority of both the VH and VG entire engine assemblies. Now if I missed some gravity defying material or gravity defying part that the VH45DE possesses that isn’t on the VG30DE, please let us in on it. We will make an effort to find away to get that unobtanium part adapted to not only the L-6, but also GM, Ford, and other power plants that people want to swap into their Z cars…

 

 

So if any one can submit actual side by side weighing of these two engines with similar components attached, (just the engine from intake to oil pan, exhaust manifold to exhaust manifold, i.e. no P/S pumps, no A/C compressors, etc), … my vote is the VH45DE is heavier than the VG30DE.

[260DET]

Someone has thought this topic through, no argument from me

[Garrett76Zt]

I've had both on an engine stand in my garage and that vh is a big beast. I'd think it was heavier . . . however I was ENTIRELY suprised how light some of the new Ford mudular v8 aluminum blocks are. It honestly felt half as heavy as an L block. Both the Vh and the ford blocks are 90 degree v8's, I'd think they might be in the same neighborhood in terms of weight.

[Guest sjohn280]

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/185771

 

The VH45DE weighs just at 500lbs with all accessories.

 

http://zdriver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11335

 

The VG30DETT weighs a little over 600lbs.

[Guest sjohn280]

Also while searching automotive forums for 300zx swaps the consensus is that the VH is about 100lbs lighter. If both engines were made equally the extra 2 cyls would make the V8 heavier but they are not made equally. At least thats how the guys that have swapped VHs into their z32s explained it to me

[savageskaterkid]

It does make sence when you think a VG WITH TURBOs vs. a VH WITHOUT turbos. The 100 pounds the guy shaved from the car when he did the swap could have easily been caused by (assuming the motors wieghted fairly the same) 2 turbos are now missing, as is intercoolers, and the piping. Did he also use lightwieght headers-usually a few pounds lighter then a stock cast manifolds? Could he have possibly remove A/C and powersteering, I don't really want to search the entire site because I never have luck searching on other sites.

[BRAAP]

Sorry guys, I’m still not buying it for a minute. Doesn’t anyone have any actual side by side empirical data to prove or disprove either way? All anyone has posted, including myself, is just theory and other threads which don’t support squat either way. I have been wanting to purchase a strain gauge just for weighing engines and the like. This thread has me so spun out that I just may end up doing this sooner than I had planned just to put this argument to rest once and for all, (if I’m wrong about which is heavier, I’ll eat my words ). I am currently pulling a VH45DE out of my ’96 Q-45 and will be pulling the VG30DE out of my ’93 Z-32 some time later this year, and I also have access to a complete VG30DE and VG30DETT. You guys are killing me…

 

I would love nothing more than to find that the VH45DE is indeed lighter than the VG30DE and VG30DETT by ANY amount, but normal logic does not support that fantasy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/185771

 

The VH45DE weighs just at 500lbs with all accessories.

 

http://zdriver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11335

 

The VG30DETT weighs a little over 600lbs.

 

Uh, you might go back and read that thread again. 478 lbs with NO accessories, no intake, no P/S, no Alternator, and only one exhaust manifold. Same poster then went on to say that the weight went over 500 lbs just by throwing the intake manifold on top, still NO ACCESSORIES! The other thread has NOTHING concrete to support that 100 lbs claim. There was mention of shipping weight, overall car weight, but NO mention of similar like engines with specific weights of each.

 

 

 

Also while searching automotive forums for 300zx swaps the consensus is that the VH is about 100lbs lighter. If both engines were made equally the extra 2 cyls would make the V8 heavier but they are not made equally. At least thats how the guys that have swapped VHs into their z32s explained it to me

 

Correct, they are not made equally, but they are the same in basic architecture, head design, etc and as such, any weight difference by “design” is going to be minimal at best, NOT 100 lbs worth. And if the weight difference were 100lbs, it would be that the VH is the heavier by 100lbs, which to me is believable. Not the other way around.

 

 

 

It does make sence when you think a VG WITH TURBOs vs. a VH WITHOUT turbos. The 100 pounds the guy shaved from the car when he did the swap could have easily been caused by (assuming the motors wieghted fairly the same) 2 turbos are now missing, as is intercoolers, and the piping. Did he also use lightwieght headers-usually a few pounds lighter then a stock cast manifolds? Could he have possibly remove A/C and powersteering, I don't really want to search the entire site because I never have luck searching on other sites.

 

I can’t believe that those two small turbos are that much heavier than the two extra pistons, 2 con rods, 8 valve’s, 8 valve springs, 8 rockers, that much more camshaft, another crank throw, extra cast aluminum material for the heads and block, etc.

[veritech-z]

Paul, I've got a quick question: does a head with more valves in it weigh more or less than a similar head with less valves? I could see a case being made for less because of all the head material that isn't there any longer after you factor in the amount of material that is opened up for the ports. Is all that aluminum that is bored out for the port and the valve seat area more, or less material by weight than what would need to be added back in the form of a valve and springs/retainers/rockers or whatever?

 

Also, how much would a difference in con rod thickness and piston size factor into a weight comparison? I don't know the specs on these two engines off hand, that may not even be an issue in this case if they are the same...

 

The Z32TT had dual intercoolers, correct? Is the factory plumbing mostly metal, or rubber? I could see two cast iron manifolds, the turbos, and all the associated intercooler accessories weighing 50+ pounds. In the case of a swap, you would take out all the associated airbox plumbing, so would that factor in to the weight comparison, or no?

 

Besides that, the gigantic throttle body on the Q-45 probably weighs a good 5 or 6 pounds on it's own...(not really that much, I do have one of those handy!)

[Guest sjohn280]

There is another post on which that same guy says that the VH with the other parts weighed in at 501, which is over 500. Great now I cant find the thread.

[Guest Swifty Devil]

lol i assumed that the vh45de is ENTIRELY ALUMINIUM

except for pistons and rods the block is alloy.

does this not make sense that it would be far light and in terms of sheer size its not a hell of alot bigger than a vg30de.

 

i mean i started the thread so i may be a bit optimistic looking for confirmation of my guess.

 

vg30de has thicker walls too thicker CAST walls.

 

lets also factor in this from http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_metals.htm

according to this list of metals (when divided by 1000 to get g/cubic cm)

 

Aluminium based alloy is 2.8g/cubic cm

vs Cast iron which is 7.8g/cubic cm

 

obviously more aluminium is used in the building of said engine but lets not forget the plenum of the vg30de alone is quite heavy as are the heads.

 

it would seem more likely using simple science that the vh45 block is lighter however i would love someone to dig up their manuals

for a q45

and a 300zx so i can get ACCURATE manual specifications of engine weights.