Early 70s Japanese race car aero

[HS30-H]

I've never actually told anyone that I am "writing a book" - it is just something that people keep assuming. I'm still gathering information, and - to be honest - in many ways just scratching the surface. I still only know some of what I don't know...........

 

 

Alan, the 'oval' opening seems to be an interesting permutation---what are the chances that the 'Datsun Macau' car had one of these front ends...from the photos the owner had at the time (halftone xeroxes of xeroxes of news clippings) this may be a possible, perhaps? Though I think the Macau car seemingly had more of a "GTO Ferrari" FRP complete nose...it was hard to tell from the photos on the display.

 

Tony,

The oval-mouth Works front panel was quite different to that 'Macau' car's extended front. Even though the 'Macau' car photos are so poor it is still easy to see that it extended outwards quite a long way from the standard outline of the car.

 

That 'Macau' car has had an interesting life, and has some tales to tell. Unfortunately the article published on zhome.com is full of errors and assumptions, and does not stand up well to even light scrutiny.

 

I exchanged e-mails with the current owner some years back, and he insisted that the car was built as a race car by Nissan - even though the true story of the car ( and who prepped it, and where ) is known to a few Japanese race enthusiasts and some of the people who were actually involved in the story on the Japanese side.

 

Ironic that you should so quickly see the possible connection between 'Scuderia Nissan' and the 'Macau' car, as it was indeed 'Scuderia Nissan' that built and race prepped the car for the American owner / driver. The 'Macau' nose looks decidedly amateur to me ( and not up to the nice standard of SN's work ) so I'm guessing that it might have been something dreamed up and fabbed by the owner either just before Macau, or whilst there. It certainly wasn't the work of Nissan's own race departments at Omori or Oppama as the legend wants us to believe.

 

In fact, we might even be talking about two cars here rather than just one ( some interesting photos I could show you about that! ). Even the name of the owner / driver on the zhome.com article doesn't match up with the documented Japanese side of the story. All very contradictory - but that's old race cars for ya!

 

Cheers,

Alan T.

 

ps - if you are interested in American family genealogy there's a research project in the offing on the 'Macau' car owner / driver. I have two names for him and don't know which of these was his pseudonym yet......

[Tony D]

Verrrrry interesting. Yes, the nose did look extended. "Hybrid G" if you will (snark)... If I can find the photos I took when I examined the vehicle first hand in Atlanta in 95, would you be interested in some scans of the negatives, Alan? I'm curious about the Japanese side of the story as well. When I saw the car, I was immediately shocked at the appearance of so many of the "Yellow Book" Accessories hung on the car. I remember taking a load of photos...but this was the days before all those nice acid free archival negative carriers, and who knows where I stored them... My only saving grace is that I live in SoCal now, and Humidity/Mould Growth does not present a problem like it did in my other living location...

 

P.S. The thing that drew my attention to the Datsun Macau was the original owner's stationing in Okinawa---which was a US territory at the time. There were very strange and special vehicles offered in that market that made their way to the USA which normally didn't get offered in the US market. I knew a few locals how likely were involved in the original ordering / procurement of the car, but when I saw it originally in 95, they were foggy on some of the details as you have mentioned. There was some question in their mind about how it actually was converted/delivered. But with AAFEES (Army Air Force Exchange Service) and the rules for foreign delivery of vehicles (especially to officers) at the time anything is possible. This was delivered during Vietnam, and at that time it wasn't unheard of that CIA Operated 707's loaded up officers personal goods if they had space, and flew them wherever they happened to be going. Hong Kong, Singapore, Bangkok... At the time, being stationed on Okinawa, and having a few beers with a Traffic Management Officer on Naha or Kadena could get you BIG favors for shipment of just about anything. Ahhh, the 'war stories' of old enlisted personnel....

[veritech-z]

Just looking at the nose on the "Macau 240z", it's hard to tell if there is an air dam under the nose extension or not. If no, I would expect that to get light in the front at speed.

This is the car in question, right? I linked this pic from http://www.zhome.com.

[HS30-H]

Tony,

Probably best if we take the conversation about the 'Macau' car's history to PMs or direct e-mails. I have pics of the car racing in Japan, and some interesting info on the owner / driver. There's some stuff I can tell you that is probably best kept private until it can be properly verified..........

 

Can you PM or e-mail me with your e-mail addy?

 

Veritech,

Yes, that's the car in question. Notice just how big that front inlet is ( quite unnecessary! ) and the fact that the factory Works teams had already moved far beyond that thinking. Notice too the rather home-made look of the rear Overfenders - which are nothing like the proper Works cars were using at that point either, and nothing like the same car was using whilst it was in Japan.

 

Cheers,

Alan T.

[bjhines]

That Macau race car inlet is so Speed Racer/ Mach I... I loved that show....

[veritech-z]

The Mach V didn't really have any opening in the front, but I see the resemblance...I always wanted to flip the headlight buckets on an S30 (especially a g-nose) to get that same old school prototype look...

the Mach V

A concept drawing I did of a g-nose, inverted headlight bucket S30

 

Sorry for the off-topicality of this post, you know I can't resist a good change of subject here and there...

[240Zed]

That Macau race car inlet is so Speed Racer/ Mach I... I loved that show....

 

Did you hear they are making a Speed Racer movie. Should be out May next year.

 

Ah Alan, causing trouble over here too.

 

Mr C.

[veritech-z]

Supposedly starring Vince Vaughn as Rex Racer/Racer X...

[260DET]

I've never actually told anyone that I am "writing a book" - it is just something that people keep assuming. I'm still gathering information, and - to be honest - in many ways just scratching the surface. I still only know some of what I don't know...........

 

 

 

 

.....................................................................

 

A book would be great Alan and you are the man to write it. Wonder why a history has not been written in Japan.

[283VZ]

During the 1972 season, some teams experimented with fins on the rear deck.

 

Here's Yanagida again, this time in his much-photographed red/white/blue Hitachi / Checkman-sponsored car:

 

 

And another SCCN team driver in the same event - Seiichi Suzuki in the Maruzen Technica-sponsored Tomei car. Suzuki was sadly destined to perish in a race accident within just a couple of years:

 

 

 

I was messing with my Jada Z model and thinking of this thread.. here are some of my crazy ideas:

 

 

If my memory serves me Hatchback's create lift,so I say open it Then seal the sides,remove the glass and install the radiator into the open space with the fans hanging under sort of make it SOMETHING like a BMW M coupe

 

.

 

We move batteries to the back,why not the radiator. Now comes the reasoning.With the radiator out of the way, the support could be modified in order to tilt and lower the front of the hood creating a sort of 911 "frog eye" look while acomplishing this aero work by Dragonfly.

 

I know these are extreme ideas and would totally change the look.. like I said crazy ideas.

[283VZ]

I would seal the drivers cabin behind the seats, infront of the struts,so the air drawn thru the radiator would be able to exhaust out the rear.

[283VZ]

Quick Photoshop.

[Mayolives]

Note that in both pictures above of Yanagida and Suzuki, the rear of the hood is not in the full down, closed position. I would assume both teams were trying to reduce uplift and help keep the engine bay temps down.

[283VZ]

Note that in both pictures above of Yanagida and Suzuki, the rear of the hood is not in the full down, closed position. I would assume both teams were trying to reduce uplift and help keep the engine bay temps down.

I noticed that too.

My lowering the hood idea would do the same and the additional angle on the hood would probably produce more downforce.

Here's another shot of the hatch seal idea.

[Tony D]

Note that in both pictures above of Yanagida and Suzuki, the rear of the hood is not in the full down, closed position. I would assume both teams were trying to reduce uplift and help keep the engine bay temps down.

 

More likely the FRP hood is flexing due to built up pressure at-speed. I have documented this on the Paul Neuman G-Nose. Took photos coming out of the last turn before the pit straight at Watkins Glen, and the hood was down securely (at 80mph perhaps). By the grandstands, at a speed over 100mph, the hood was bowed up noticably.

 

Pressure gotta go somewhere, bowing a flimsy FRP hood is the easiest route out!

 

They could have set the hood pins 'loose' to let it exhaust at the back as well. But you would have to see the cars sitting still to see how they set up the pins. Many times the FRP pieces have a slight bow to them and spring up when fixed hard at the front end. Even my steel hood does that!

[JMortensen]

It just seems to me that you've got the WHOLE hood to modify or cut holes to get rid of pressure, the last place to cut holes would be right at the back. Just because it was done that way on those cars doesn't mean that it is the best way to do it. They might have had rules to follow that necessitated that compromise.

[Six_Shooter]

Could venting the inspection covers (I think that's the name of them), or maybe even removing them completly help get the air through the engine compartment/remove heat from the engine compartment as effectivly as raising the rear of the hood?

 

That's an interesting look with the open and sealed "hatch", kinda reminds me of an old 'Vette with thos god aweful "wagon kits" from the '70s, though would probably be much easier to exicute in an asthetically pleasing manner on an S30.

I would have to think however that it would only ruin the aero dynamics, just think about the most aerodymanic shape known, that being a water/tear drop shape, where the rear or trailing part is actually a point or as close to in the case of an automobile as can be acheived. Looking at the body lines of the S30 it almost looks like this is alreay in place, the long trailing hatch area, and even the 1/4s taper in behind the wheel wells.

[283VZ]

That's an interesting look with the open and sealed "hatch", kinda reminds me of an old 'Vette with thos god aweful "wagon kits" from the '70s, though would probably be much easier to exicute in an asthetically pleasing manner on an S30.

I would have to think however that it would only ruin the aero dynamics, just think about the most aerodymanic shape known, that being a water/tear drop shape, where the rear or trailing part is actually a point or as close to in the case of an automobile as can be acheived. Looking at the body lines of the S30 it almost looks like this is alreay in place, the long trailing hatch area, and even the 1/4s taper in behind the wheel wells.

Yeah its not teardrop shape which is thee shape.. but I figured if some lift could be eliminated and some weight shifts to the back over the axle.. plus the lowered hood and its new angle would effect things too.I also see the new found square edges on the hatch seal sides and the small area by the headlights would act as stabilizing wings..I'm just dreaming.

I'm by no means an aerodynamics engineer.

[283VZ]

kinda reminds me of an old 'Vette with thos god aweful "wagon kits" from the '70s, though would probably be much easier to exicute in an asthetically pleasing manner on an S30.

 

Oh man. I had never seen those before, thats it.

 

 

[283VZ]

More wagon Vette's.

http://www.sheldonaubut.com/vettewagon/main.htm