OBX vs Quaife (with pixors)

[rbryant]

Alright, got it all apart and such. Seems like the washers flattened out... and didn't spring back. This could be why it seemed ok at first, then loosened up.

 

 

 

 

Putting it back together I tested a few variations, and I'm going to try with the washers oriented like this: ))()((

If I was checking it right, the bolts took about a half turn from snug to clamped.

 

I have no way to check breakaway torque for sure, but it feels right around 10lb-lbs turning by hand and using a torque wrench on an axle nut. The axle gears no longer clack back and forth and the whole setup seems much tighter.

 

 

I've also flipped the axle gears back with BOTH circlips toward the center of the carrier, and now both axles clip in properly. The passenger side clipped in about 1/2" too far out when I tried it last night, so both DO need to be oriented to the inside.

 

 

I'll update one last time once I get it all together and give it a test run. We're currently in the middle of an Arkansas blizzard... so it might be a few days.

 

They really shouldn't flatten out. They will look pretty flat in that configuration because the gaps are on the inside.

 

I will take a look at making the stack a little taller in the future.

 

If you feel that the stack that you got was not correct just send me an email and we can talk about how to improve it and I will give you a refund or replace them.

I am honestly more worried about my kits being correct than I am profits from them.

 

-Rich

Edited March 17, 2010 by rbryant

[rbryant]

They really shouldn't flatten out. They will look pretty flat in that configuration because the gaps are on the inside.

 

I will take a look at making the stack a little taller in the future.

 

If you feel that the stack that you got was not correct just send me an email and we can talk about how to improve it and I will give you a refund or replace them.

I am honestly more worried about my kits being correct than I am profits from them.

 

-Rich

 

 

Based on this feedback I am going to change the washers I supply for the R200 LSD to 7 identical washers. They can be installed )()()(( or )()()() which allows for different heights depending on the needs of the particular unit.

 

-Rich

[jc8587]

Hello Z owners,

 

I am coming to you OBX LSD experts for some friendly advice. I ordered an OBX for my 02 Subaru WRX as our cars are open front diffs and its a serious killer at any road course! I have ordered the bolt/washer kit and plan to take apart the diff and clean up the machine work if needed. My question deals with the direction of the gears, as I know many of you have experiences with OBX sending the units with the gears in the wrong direction for your application, being RWD. However, because I am installing my LSD in the front, are the gears opposite to your "correct" direction? Or is it the same as your directions?

 

Any help is appreciated!

 

Thanks!

[FlatBlack]

Hello,

 

The direction the diff is pointing should not matter

 

OBX owners who modify their units swap the gears so that the friction on acceleration is directed toward the casing, not towards the washers. The gears will hit the washers on engine breaking only.

 

Please report back with what you find, I am building an Impreza off-road car and would like to hear how you like it. What are you doing for a rear diff?

 

Please check out this thread for a more detailed description of the bolt/washer/gear orientation upgrade

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php?/topic/88099-obx-differential-inspection-and-installation

 

I already ordered the bolts and washers, as well as the 10mm ID spacer sleeves. I will be posting my progress, I'm actually ordering my OBX carrier today.

 

As RBryant said in his previous post, you will get two larger grey washers and a bunch of smaller and thinner black washers. He has edited his post in the R200 section of his write-up page to reflect this. [i know that doesn't apply to you, WRX guy ]

[jc8587]

Hello,

 

The direction the diff is pointing should not matter

 

OBX owners who modify their units swap the gears so that the friction on acceleration is directed toward the casing, not towards the washers. The gears will hit the washers on engine breaking only.

 

Please report back with what you find, I am building an Impreza off-road car and would like to hear how you like it. What are you doing for a rear diff?

 

 

Yup, I read all about the reasons, I just didn't know whether it would make a difference where the LSD was going in the drivetrain

 

 

As for the rear, it is the stock LSD (R160) and will proabably stay that way for now just because the points system with NASA TT makes you take a point for each modified differential.

[FlatBlack]

 

As for the rear, it is the stock LSD (R160) and will proabably stay that way for now just because the points system with NASA TT makes you take a point for each modified differential.

 

I thought the first clutch type Subaru diff was the 04-05 STi R180? I know the GC8 2.5 RS has a viscous, so wouldn't that make your bug eye a viscous as well?

 

It might not make any difference, but I would prefer to be [more effectively] spinning both rears rather than both fronts

 

This of course is according to my limited knowledge of viscous diffs and the assumption that they hold less than a clutch or helical type diff.

[jc8587]

I thought the first clutch type Subaru diff was the 04-05 STi R180? I know the GC8 2.5 RS has a viscous, so wouldn't that make your bug eye a viscous as well?

 

It might not make any difference, but I would prefer to be [more effectively] spinning both rears rather than both fronts

 

This of course is according to my limited knowledge of viscous diffs and the assumption that they hold less than a clutch or helical type diff.

 

Yup, the stock rear is a VLSD with a 3.45 ratio.

[datsun dave]

Are people using the OBX unit happy with it ?

 

Also what sort of HP is beening used ?

[cygnusx1]

I have yet to see a post saying their OBX failed, unless the unit was assembled improperly.  HP is across the board.  I would say whatever the R200 can handle, the OBX can handle too.

[sparkybg]

Hi guys!

 

I am planning to get an OBX R200 unit in order to put it in front of Terrano 2 (R180A original, but I've got an R200A from WD21 Pathfinder/Terrano1). Looking at the dimensions, the carriers are interchangeable, but I have a little question here:

 

The short flange (short stub axle) of my differential is mounted to it with a bolt instead of clip. On the original open R200A carrier, there's a lock nut for this bolt presed on one of the side gears inside the carrier. Can you tell me if it will be possibe to put this lock nut inside the OBX unit? Is there a place for it? I think it must be placed somewhere between one of the side gears and one of the spring/shim retainers in the center - as far as I can see one of the retainers is longer than the other one and is not flat on its outer surface, and pontentially just in order to make place for this lock nut. Am I right on this?

 

PP: This thread is simply great! It helped me very much. Thanks.

[Lozer]

Adding my .02

 

I just suffered a pinion bearing failure due to the washer orentation. My washers decided to flatten themselves out during my last AutoX and allowed the driverside output flange to start chewing out the case and put enough pressure on the ring & pinion to destroy the pinion bearings. Loud howling at 25+ mph.

 

I could easily push the output flanges back and forth in the case. I replaced the washers and reorented them )())(()( for maximum resistance.

 

I like the idea of a spring.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Lozer

[JMortensen]

I'm trying to follow how side load on the case, which this is what makes this thing work, caused the pinion bearings to fail. This is especially strange when they're left loose in other helical LSDs like the True trac. Are you sure it wasn't something else, like the washers got chewed up and the metal floating around in the diff took out the pinion bearings? Which bearings went bad? The pilot ball bearing, or the tapered bearings? Pictures of the LH side gear chewing out of the case? I'm just not getting it.

[cygnusx1]

Sounds a bit strange that the OBX could kill a pinion bearing. It sounds more like the diff failed all on it's own due to wear and tear. The OBX is pretty much a neutral player when it comes to the diff bearings. Unless, you got metal shavings in the oil, OR the bearings were not set up properly during assembly.

[Lozer]

Not too strange. If you flatten out the washers you have a large amount of play with the output axle gears (side to side). So thats how the case got chewed up.

 

 

I am inclined to agree about the pinion bearing failure (I am rather abusive to it), but if the center of the diff is slamming back and forth as mine was it may help bearing failure along pretty substantially. I'm also pretty sure the flange being used as a grinding wheel was not helping.

 

Ive had this unit in play for about 2 seasons now and this is the first hicup it gave me (and damn I beat this thing). I would buy it again in an instant

 

In short check your washer play.

I was using the stock washers.

 

view of case grinding

 

 

view of still intact obx

 

 

[update]

 

ok so I reasembled the obx with 1.25 turns after washer contact. installed new crown and installed diff into new case. Runnout and lash were equal to original open unit. I go to slap in the ouput shafts and the driver side is a hair from the case. If i apply some pressure to it I can make it rub the case slightly. Open to ideas.

 

Ive got a feeling im going to feel stupid at the end of this.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Lozer

[m1ghtymaxXx]

So I finally got to take my car around the block with OBX installed. I flipped the gears, and my RBryant washer stake came out like this   (()()()() giving me approximately 1.25-1.5 turns of the bolt preload. I took the diff to a shop to have the backlash set, so I'm not sure what the finally measurement was.  Once assembled I was able to turn the diff with a screwdriver through the stub axle studs. Once installed on the car the diff acted like an open diff in that that the wheels spin in opposite directions when spinning a wheel. Do these seem like symptoms of inadequate preload?

 

Finally I was able to take the car for a spin around the block, and was getting the grinding noise when coasting/decel. I didn't get a chance to inspect it further, but I'm guessing that could be the axle studs grinding on the case. Is there another potential source for this noise? If it is the axle studs, can it be resolved by adding more preload? Or is it just a matter of clearancing the case with an angle grinder?

[DuoWing]

It really is interesting to see the differences people are encountering with these things. The other thread is saying some are seeing changes in backlash while others aren't. Then there's this issue with the axles rubbing on the case. I'm in the process of finally installing the obx into my diff, which is taking forever because I have to wait on everything to be shipped. I also went with a Z31 R200 that I pulled from a junkyard this way I don't need the ring gear spacers as I have the larger bolts. Once this is all eventually done I'll try and report how it works out for me. I'm curious what others have done about the case grinding. If it is the case of just needing to clearance the case a little, I don't mind doing that as I said it's a junkyard R200 with an OBX, so not a huge investment. Also I know I saw it in one of the two threads, but does anyone have any advice on the best way to mount it so I can attach and properly torque the ring gear bolts? The open diff had the nice flat open section which made mounting it in the vice really convenient. Not sure where to mount the OBX.

[m1ghtymaxXx]

It really is interesting to see the differences people are encountering with these things. The other thread is saying some are seeing changes in backlash while others aren't. Then there's this issue with the axles rubbing on the case. I'm in the process of finally installing the obx into my diff, which is taking forever because I have to wait on everything to be shipped. I also went with a Z31 R200 that I pulled from a junkyard this way I don't need the ring gear spacers as I have the larger bolts. Once this is all eventually done I'll try and report how it works out for me. I'm curious what others have done about the case grinding. If it is the case of just needing to clearance the case a little, I don't mind doing that as I said it's a junkyard R200 with an OBX, so not a huge investment. Also I know I saw it in one of the two threads, but does anyone have any advice on the best way to mount it so I can attach and properly torque the ring gear bolts? The open diff had the nice flat open section which made mounting it in the vice really convenient. Not sure where to mount the OBX.

 

Well as an updated on my post above, the stub axle studs self-clearanced themselves after a few decels and has made any noise since. I haven't gotten up close for an inspection yet, but it left some faint wear marks in the case. As long as the heads of the studs aren't badly worn, I'll just leave it as is. I'm not sure if some units are worse than others, but in my case if would have only required a very slight bit of clearancing on the case.  

 

The change in backlash wouldn't be an OBX issue. Any time your change carriers or bearings, backlash should be checked. I wasn't able to clamp my OBX down tight enough to torque the ring gear bolts, so I just told the driveline shop to do it when I brought it in to have the backlash set and wipe pattern checked. I suppose I could have gotten creative with a helper and a strap wrench. 

[DuoWing]

Thanks for the update, I kind of figured something might happen like that. I know the FSM even says to check preload at the pinion when it's all installed and to rotate it many times in both directions to help seat/set the bearings and everything.

[Xnke]

Just bought a new OBX diff carrier. It is NOT the same unit that has been sold in the past...it's finely machined on the outside surfaces. It also is not a cylinder anymore, more conical shaped on one end, and the 40mm long M8x1.25 class 12.9 bolts were installed from the ring-gear side. I dissassembled the unit and found the same cheap belleville washers inside, smacked one with a hammer three times and it flattened out completely.

 

One of the bolts was roughed up a little from the hole not being cleaned properly before having the bolt threaded in, and three of the eleven bolts did not have blue loctite on them. The spider gears now have a locating pilot on them and the case is machined for the pilot. The spacers and washer stack are the same inside; and the small helical gears have a smaller, cleaner chamfer on the ends.

 

 

 

This shows the model number...sortof.

 

 

These are the bolts, note how three of them have no threadlocker and one is galled from swarf in the hole:

 

 

This is how the gears were arranged in mine...this is the driver's side gear set.

 

 

The pilot on the spider gears. This fits into a machined pocket in the carrier.

 

 

The carrier halves:

 

 

As you can see, this unit must supercede or replace the older, cylindrical unit...Hopefully it's not just a mis-marked one! The ring gear bolt holes are 12mm diameter, and the ring gear seat is 110mm diameter.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Xnke

[mcx]

thanks for posting this new info...some upgrades and some same old design/workmanship  flaws...where and how much is this selling??