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torsen anyone?!


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lookee what is just minutes from my office?! used to be part of gleason gearworks [gleason torsen], then separated and was zexel torsen, mid 90's became jtekt torsen. years ago they did manufacture their lsd for both the r180 and r200 diffs but stopped production many years ago. they also used to make one for the earlier supra diffs as well.

 

spoke with the qc engineer last week, wanted to see if they produce a torsen lsd for anything we [currently] use. his initial answer was...no but said i could bring by an r200 and my q45 diff as well and he'd have a look. they have an application chart on their website [don't ask, search please]. hopefully they'll have one for the q45 diff as i'm not real keen on running a vsld at the track as i've heard they transition to an open diff once the fluid gets too hot...

 

DSC05718.JPG

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  • 3 months later...

FYI... Andy Gleasman, son of Vernon Gleasman who developed and patented the Gleasen/Torsen, is a principal at TorVec. They are in development and will soon be releasing a new version of the Torsen (Iso Torque) and their first test vehicle was (is) a Nissan 350Z. That means they already have a R200 applicaiton.

 

A couple SCCA T2 racers I know have run the diff and were very impressed. Unfortunately they had to give the diffs back to TorVec. I've been talking with Andy and he should have something to release this summer.

 

http://www.torvec.com/products_isotorque.html

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My buddy is looking to sell his R200 Torsen Gleason LSD carrier that he bought new, never installed it and has been sitting in his stash of parts for quite a long time. From what I hear, they are the most expensive LSDs out there, more than the Quaiffe. ($1500-1800?) It is an interesting unit....with all those gears in there!

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  • 3 months later...
David, any word on the time frame for R200 availability of the torvec?

 

pete, i stopped by their place about a month ago, met andy [grandson of torsen founder vernon gleasman] and keith [andy's dad]. keith took me for a ride in their 350z 'demo' car. went through some of the same demo's that you can see on their website [sans the snow stuff of course] and it is a pretty amazing unit. i know that they plan to have the production isotorqe diff ready by late fall-mid winter and will be offered thru nismo [yes, i also mentioned that we all heard they closed shop but...].

 

anyway, i made a second trip there with my 240z and a spare q45 diff-to see if they have an application for it. they immediately plopped it on a bench, pulled the cover, stub axles and started taking measurements. not holding my breath but should know soon if it will work.

 

the isotorque advantages are numerous-no vsld to open when hot, no clutches to replace, quiet, more fuel efficient than conventional lsd, can take a pounding and...based on my conversations with andy & keith, much more affordable than anything else on the market today!

 

i'll post here once i have concrete info.

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yes, i also mentioned that we all heard they closed shop but...

 

Nismo has not closed shop. Nissan Motorsports (a completely separate unit from Nismo) was supposedly closed as part of Nissan's earlier US motorsports cut-back announcement, but that's not true. Nissan Motorsports is alive and well.

 

TorVec has an exclusive deal with Nismo for the R200 units for the 350Z.

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I had an original Gleasen Torsen for an R200 that I did put a few street miles on and about 70 at Road Atlanta in a 240Z. No bad habits. Sold it a year or so ago to somebody from hybridz. Should work just like a Quaife.

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The Gleason/Torsen, Quiafe, and (I think) Torvec are all Automatic Torque Biasing types of limited slip differentials. Due to their mechanical design, torque gets directed to the wheel with the most grip. This is because the diffs use worm gears which have a unique property in their design: Worm gears can drive another gear but cannot be driven by that same gear. The tooth angle on the worm gear is so shallow that when the main gear tries to drive the worm gear, the friction between the main gear and the worm gear locks the worm gear.

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how is this any different in operation than a quaife?

The Quaife has helical gears which are free floating inside the case. The gears are driven by the side gears until they hit the sides of the case, then when they hit the case the resistance of the gear turning against the case provides the torque transfer to the inside wheel. There are belleville springs to smooth out the action.

 

Torsens come in a very similar design to the Quaife, and then the one pictured here. This design doesn't let the gears float, instead they slide on an axle until they hit the case.

 

I think the Torsen design should be superior, and I've talked to people who ran the Tru-trak which is essentially like the Quaife and they said it popped and crunched when reversing and sometimes also when changing directions (think slaloms).

 

My understanding is that the Quaife, Tru-trak, and similar Torsen are one way LSDs. I believe the Torsen pictured could be a 1.5 way or a 2 way.

 

The only "new" thing here that I can see is lower cost and the possibility of more aggressive helical gears, which would give more traction to the inside wheel.

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My Project S130 has a short nose R200 with a Nissan S15 OE Torsen type diff, I think some GTR's had the same diff center.

 

I would be interested in a spare center at the right price. Group buy?

 

Only one question : is the bias suitable for circuit racing? By 'bias' I mean the engagement characteristics of the center. Maybe John C could be given one to try on the Freefiddysee :)

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