Tony D Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 You might want to check on Milspec Hard Anonidizing after fittment of the plates (and subsequent re-disassembly) to give the aluminum some durability beyond as-cast. It is especially resistant to abrasion. With aluminum plates, and Anonodized bodies, the plates would be the wear item, and easily replaceable if need be. Though, personally, my first choice would be brass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Oh course you'll be forever known as That Horny Z Guy. I see a request for a moderator intervention for a user name caption change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 You might want to check on Milspec Hard Anonidizing after fittment of the plates (and subsequent re-disassembly) to give the aluminum some durability beyond as-cast. It is especially resistant to abrasion. With aluminum plates, and Anonodized bodies, the plates would be the wear item, and easily replaceable if need be. Though, personally, my first choice would be brass... Well I just priced some brass sheet .063 thick. 12" x 12" $40.00 Yikes. I may have some .080 brass but that's getting a little thick. I have a bunch of 316 16 gauge stainless that I'm going to try first. The bores have a stainless liner so wear won't be an issue. derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_furious Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Man alive...that is one hell of a ITB setup! Incredible work, Derek! PLEASE arrange a HybridZ group buy if you plan a production run and prices end up in the 3 digit range (one can hope). This is worth going EFI for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 Man alive...that is one hell of a ITB setup! Incredible work, Derek! PLEASE arrange a HybridZ group buy if you plan a production run and prices end up in the 3 digit range (one can hope). This is worth going EFI for! Thanks Well considering a used set of Mikunis goes for $1300 -1500 I don't think your going to see a three figure price! There's a lot of work in these things and realistically there's a very small market for this stuff. I'm not ready to throw any prices out yet but I can guarantee you they will be more expensive than a used set of Mikunis! A lot more. Thanks Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 That would be understandable, esp. if they perform well:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 ThanksWell considering a used set of Mikunis goes for $1300 -1500 I don't think your going to see a three figure price! 2 sets of mikuni 44's in the classifieds now for $650 and $1000. Derek I think you might find it a better plan if you can offer up the raw castings for a fair price and let people do their own machining/design/fitiment. A lot less work on your part too. That's assuming you have any interets in doing all that extra work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 2 sets of mikuni 44's in the classifieds now for $650 and $1000. Derek I think you might find it a better plan if you can offer up the raw castings for a fair price and let people do their own machining/design/fitiment. A lot less work on your part too. That's assuming you have any interets in doing all that extra work! Well in my mind Mikunis are worth more than that:-| Originally I was going to sell the raw castings but these are only as good as the machine work. I see lots of potential for problems if they're not done properly. We're really getting ahead of ourselves here. These things may run like crap and not idle at all. Here's all I'll say about pricing until they're running on my car. They won't be cheep! No more talk of pricing as it will suck all of the fun out! And there's a long way to go before they're running! Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 No more talk of pricing as it will suck all of the fun out! And there's a long way to go before they're running! Derek Hear, hear!! I would still second the idea of selling rough castings, Buyer Beware. It is just so much effort for you to put into the pieces.. I mean, if you want to make either option available (rough or finished) that keeps all doors open. It is good to be abundantly loud when emphasizing the amount of finish work involved though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 There's a set of TWM Triple Throttle Bodies in there now for $600 (Shameless plug) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 We're really getting ahead of ourselves here. These things may run like crap and not idle at all. Derek Unlikely. EFI is an amazing equaliser. With your manifold block setup for the idle circuit, I lay money you will idle like a stocker. In CCC (and UK Magazine) there were guys running Fords using injector bungs made of plastic and epoxied into the hollowed out bodies of old cast-off Solexes.... I think you will be suprized as hell how well they do run once it's all fired up and ready to go. And the 'raw' casting does have merit. I for one would not use the head-mounted injector bosses. They would be trumpet mounted, and by not boring the bases, it always leaves open the ability of some retard like me using them for Mechanical FI running 100% methanol on some salt flat somewhere (and thereby preserving my strange, but hood-clearanced Eggers & Vickers manifold...) sometime in the future. Hell, if I can get our L28 to idle at 400 rpms with the cam that Bonneville Car has and with EFI...I think these will work admirably! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 BAH, my shennanagins have resulted in me getting the tag instead of Derek... So much for me stirring the pot! Though I admit, it is not entirely unearned handle in my case, just for a different kind of horn... LOL, maybe it's the "affinity" for the 2+2 that makes you a target Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Ahhhh, all is right with the world! And my sheepal proclivities remain unimpugned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Unlikely. EFI is an amazing equaliser. With your manifold block setup for the idle circuit, I lay money you will idle like a stocker. In CCC (and UK Magazine) there were guys running Fords using injector bungs made of plastic and epoxied into the hollowed out bodies of old cast-off Solexes.... I think you will be suprized as hell how well they do run once it's all fired up and ready to go. And the 'raw' casting does have merit. I for one would not use the head-mounted injector bosses. They would be trumpet mounted, and by not boring the bases, it always leaves open the ability of some retard like me using them for Mechanical FI running 100% methanol on some salt flat somewhere (and thereby preserving my strange, but hood-clearanced Eggers & Vickers manifold...) sometime in the future. Hell, if I can get our L28 to idle at 400 rpms with the cam that Bonneville Car has and with EFI...I think these will work admirably! Thanks for the vote of confidence Tony. I feel like I've addressed most of the problems with my design. But the devils in the details. I'll make castings available on a case by case basis. I'm worried about someone having problems with the machining and then creating a bad name for the product. Made the big order with Mcmaster Carr today. Brass sheet for the butterflies (easier to machine than stainless) Stainless steel seamless tube for the injection lines, fittings and a really cool knurled screw for my main idle air bleed. I also ordered up all the stuff for from UNI Filter for my air filters. Time for the big push. I'm carving the vacuum log pattern and core box tomorrow. Then I'm getting started on the rest of the handwork on the manifolds. I'm having trouble coming up with the DAG 213 for the bores. The guy on ebay is out and he should have it in a couple of weeks. I found it from a distributor but I have to make a $500.00 purchase!!! At this point I'm feeling pretty good about where I'm at with everything. I'm really hoping to have this on the car the beginning of January. I mean really hoping! Derek Oh and thanks a lot I see I'm now "That Horny Z Guy" But of course I'm from Ocala where the men are men and the sheep are nervous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Just concentrate on a good tight seal on the plates, and all will be well. Really they need to be only decently tight...use the sealer for the small gaps to close fully. Then, all idle air will be controlled through your bleeder block, and I lay money you will be able to control to well below 1000 rpms. Even with some small air leaks in each bore (before sealant), as long as it results in an idle below 1000 rpms, all's right with the world. Throttles that don't stick are more important. And with ITB's you really want a higher idle, for a better MAP signal anyways. Ah, time to pack it in, I have to go convince my wife that a 454 Dually and a 23 foot enclosed trailer is not an unreasonable thing to buy because I can... Tough sell when she wasn't buying any of the arguments for the C20 Chevy with the cab-over camper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 It's big, it's heavy, it's wood. Ok it's Corian and it's not really heavy. Got the pattern done for the log today and I'm about halfway through with the core mold. The X axis motor on my router decided to take a crap on me and proceeded to start to chew up the pattern. Nothing that a little duraglass couldn't fix. The protrusion to the left is the core print and won't be part of the casting. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Hehe, There's a lot worse things they could call you than "That Horney Z Guy" Sorry about that. Anyway, that box is going to look pretty cool, it always amazes me when you get something milled out like that. it's almost like you dream it up and poof (okay it's a multi-hour expensive poof) and there it is all created and ready to be cast. if anything I think your biggest problem will be high idle, tho that's as you know proportionate to the amt of air leakage. oh, where are you mounting the spring to snap these throttles shut? I assume you're using the stock throttle cable to pull them open. Phar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 Hehe, There's a lot worse things they could call you than "That Horney Z Guy" Sorry about that. Anyway, that box is going to look pretty cool, it always amazes me when you get something milled out like that. it's almost like you dream it up and poof (okay it's a multi-hour expensive poof) and there it is all created and ready to be cast. if anything I think your biggest problem will be high idle, tho that's as you know proportionate to the amt of air leakage. oh, where are you mounting the spring to snap these throttles shut? I assume you're using the stock throttle cable to pull them open. Phar Springs......We don't need no stinking springs!!! Unsure how the throttle is going to work. Originally I hoped to make the stock bell crank work but I won't really know until it's on the car. That's the only thing I'm leaving till the end. Besides I don't need an accelerator pedal to start it! I see a few over night deliveries in my future. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I would think a combination of a compression spring on the throttle cable, maybe a torsional on each butterfly or a tenstion spring on each 'triplet' along with a suitable reduction in mass of the linkage bellcranks to eliminate braking induced throttle movement, and all will be well. Yeah, braking induced movement---the linkage will be moving fore-aft in operation, and I have seen cars with heavy shift knobs come out of gear because of inertia under hard braking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 I would think a combination of a compression spring on the throttle cable, maybe a torsional on each butterfly or a tenstion spring on each 'triplet' along with a suitable reduction in mass of the linkage bellcranks to eliminate braking induced throttle movement, and all will be well. Yeah, braking induced movement---the linkage will be moving fore-aft in operation, and I have seen cars with heavy shift knobs come out of gear because of inertia under hard braking... I left the throttle shafts long so I can add torsion spring on the bottom. Braking induced movement (news to me but makes sense) works to my advantage. Sick as a dog right now but managed to get the parting lines cleaned up on the rear manifold. I shipped it back over to the foundry for shot finishing. I'm heading down to another foundry on Friday to cast the vacuum log. MUST FINISH MANIFOLD (In my best William Shatner impersonation) Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.