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Making my own EFI intake... The First Casting


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Thanks Phar

I have bosses (the gray ones)on the bottom of the manifolds for mounting a heat shield. I'm thinking along the lines of a sandwich of aluminum and ceramic insulation. Maybe a ceramic coated piece of aluminum would be enough.

 

Derek

 

Nice, so you're well ahead on that part. I think the stock heat shield is just aluminum. Though it doesn't do so great a job, as was remedied by the "over the top" injector cooling fans on the 80-83 ZX's. An aluminum sandwich might be a really "cool" idea.

 

Does anyone know how to get hold of and machine Shuttle heat shield "visions" material? hehe wouldn't that be nifty...

 

Phar

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Shuttle heat sheild is super light weight ceramic with a very tough black carbon coating. I held a sample back in school. You could put a blow torch to it for 2 minutes, and in the time it took you to put the blow torch down, you could pick up the tile with your bare hands. Awesome stuff.

 

Now, Aerogel, THAT'S the ticket!

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I Have some ceramic blanket that I use for the linings in my kilns but it's 2" thick.

Mcmaster Carr has this in 1/4" thick:

 

Flexible Silica Insulation

  • Temperature Range: 0° to 2000° F
  • Heat Flow Rate: 0.78 Btu/hr. x in./sq. ft. @ 800° F
  • Density: 10 lbs./cu. ft.
  • Color: White

I really don't know how to calculate the amount of heat soak but it's only $13.00 for a 12 x 36" piece so I'll probably give it a try.

 

Derek

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A metal backed, ceramic mat covered shield will work well. That's what's on the bottom of the 73/74 Carbs as heat shielding, and on the original SU heat shields as well. Though that was blown-on asbestos, or woven asbestos, the ability to stop heat transfer is what you want. A nice mirror polished piece of stainless steel (not aluminim!) is what you want. Mirror finish faces the heat source, with the blanket over it (covering it up, alas...) That will be about the best you will do with common materials. Attach with some monel or stainless safety wire through the shield holding the blanket in place like a quilt.

 

You don't want aluminum as it absorbs heat. Stainless is much better at preventing heat transfer, doesn't corrode as much, either...

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A metal backed, ceramic mat covered shield will work well. That's what's on the bottom of the 73/74 Carbs as heat shielding, and on the original SU heat shields as well. Though that was blown-on asbestos, or woven asbestos, the ability to stop heat transfer is what you want. A nice mirror polished piece of stainless steel (not aluminim!) is what you want. Mirror finish faces the heat source, with the blanket over it (covering it up, alas...) That will be about the best you will do with common materials. Attach with some monel or stainless safety wire through the shield holding the blanket in place like a quilt.

 

You don't want aluminum as it absorbs heat. Stainless is much better at preventing heat transfer, doesn't corrode as much, either...

 

Well I Think I have enough 16GA mirror stainless to make up a heat shield. I's a little harder to work with than aluminum. Does the mirror act as a reflector? Also I really want to do a sandwich of some sort as I don't want to have the insulation visible. Remember "Function follows form" on this project!

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Beautiful. cant wait to see these done and on the car. This would be an awesome alternative to triple webers. Any thoughts to produce and sell these? I'm sure someone has asked but there are too many post for me to read through.

Keep up the work.

 

Kyle

 

Thanks Kyle.

C'mon it's only 7 pages!

If the manifold performs well as in "runs and idles" Then I'll offer them up for sale.

The original mantra for this project was:

#1 Look Cool

#2 Look Really Cool

#3 Actually Run

 

So far I think I have 1 and 2 nailed I just need #3 to happen!

When I get ready to install them I hope to do a before and after on a Dyno.

 

I will say they won't be cheap though. There's a lot of hand work that goes into these things.

 

Derek

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Yes, the mirrored side will reflect more heat. Sandwich it between two plates of the stainless, with the mirrored sides both facing the heat source. That would be like a double-stainless heat shield but instead of using an air-gap as an insulator (which actually is very good when using stainless) you will have an even better insulator, the ceramic. Some Stainless Pop Rivets or the like would hold the whole mess laminated tightly as if it were a single piece. Mount it on some Bakelite or other high-temperature non-conductive standoffs and it would be very efficient.

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Yes, the mirrored side will reflect more heat. Sandwich it between two plates of the stainless, with the mirrored sides both facing the heat source. That would be like a double-stainless heat shield but instead of using an air-gap as an insulator (which actually is very good when using stainless) you will have an even better insulator, the ceramic. Some Stainless Pop Rivets or the like would hold the whole mess laminated tightly as if it were a single piece. Mount it on some Bakelite or other high-temperature non-conductive standoffs and it would be very efficient.

 

 

Ahh yeah, stainless. Well it does hold up very well for most purposes, but Heat + moisture + dirt/salt/anything will really mess up stainless. I'm not saying it won't be good, not that the reflective side won't be practical, but just that heat + moisture can cause pitting/surface rust.

 

Ideally, you could take your Stainless Steel shield, and have it ceramic (glass) coated. Nothing would get through that. though how well the glass would stick is another question. not to mention the heat might mess up the steel too.

 

But on the look really cool side, Stainless would fit right in. Maybe mirror chrome the top side, so that looking at the manifolds, the heat shield would act like a mirror so you can see the 360 degree on the intake. wouldn't that be sweet?? The exhaust doesn't get that hot that you really need a sandwich, but functionality dictates you have to have something. I'd say maybe a mirror top and a ceramic bottom on the heat shield should be more than enough... You're not going to see the bottom anyway.

 

Phar

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Beautiful. cant wait to see these done and on the car. This would be an awesome alternative to triple webers. Any thoughts to produce and sell these? I'm sure someone has asked but there are too many post for me to read through.

Keep up the work.

 

Kyle

 

yeah go read the back pages, so you can see the picts. this is looking really awesome...

 

Phar

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Ahh yeah, stainless. Well it does hold up very well for most purposes, but Heat + moisture + dirt/salt/anything will really mess up stainless. ... You're not going to see the bottom anyway.

 

Chances are you won't likely see the top, either.

 

Stainelss steel is the preferred OEM choice for high temperature undercar applications simply due to it's resistance to heat transmission.

 

This would be FAR superior to Aluminum, and 'all things set correctly' the mirrored side would be set to reflect any heat it does get to make for the most beneficial setup for the application.

 

I'm not sure what you're driving at with your post, in one breath you say one thing, then come along and say 'you're not going to see it anyway'...

 

I don't have mirrored stainless laying around. I DO have dull stainless laying around. I really don't care one way or another which way he installs it, but from a functional standpoint, the mirror should face the heat source. Regardless of what happens to it in use.

 

As for ceramic coating, with a ceramic/stainless sandwich, there will be very little transmission. In that case, I would agree that you may get a benefit from ceramic coating the BOTTOM piece for additional transmission impedance...but if you are seriously worried about salt splashing up THAT HIGH in the engine bay, I might suggest not driving on the beach so much.

 

I would be suprised to see salt spray anywhere above the PCV Vent in the block. VERY suprised. Expecially on a Z Car with ITBs being driven in the winter when salt is on the roads...aside from summer beach running, that is.

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I'm basically with Tony on this. I'll make it out of what ever is on the shelf. From a corrosion stand point mirror stainless corrodes less than mill finish. There is less tooth on the mirror for the salts to hang on to.

In my thinking mirror is a little to much bling for this application. I think a mill finish would probably be more like what a works team would use. And that's the look I'm going for. One thing I'm going to do is to keyhole the mounting holes so it will be easy to remove.

 

I'm almost done with the Hemi manifold so hopefully I can get something done on the next set of patterns. I finished my CNC conversion of my lathe so I can make my dies for pressing the air cleaner screens.

So Much to do!

 

Derek

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Chances are you won't likely see the top, either.

 

Stainelss steel is the preferred OEM choice for high temperature undercar applications simply due to it's resistance to heat transmission.

 

This would be FAR superior to Aluminum, and 'all things set correctly' the mirrored side would be set to reflect any heat it does get to make for the most beneficial setup for the application.

 

I'm not sure what you're driving at with your post, in one breath you say one thing, then come along and say 'you're not going to see it anyway'...

 

I don't have mirrored stainless laying around. I DO have dull stainless laying around. I really don't care one way or another which way he installs it, but from a functional standpoint, the mirror should face the heat source. Regardless of what happens to it in use.

 

As for ceramic coating, with a ceramic/stainless sandwich, there will be very little transmission. In that case, I would agree that you may get a benefit from ceramic coating the BOTTOM piece for additional transmission impedance...but if you are seriously worried about salt splashing up THAT HIGH in the engine bay, I might suggest not driving on the beach so much.

 

I would be suprised to see salt spray anywhere above the PCV Vent in the block. VERY suprised. Expecially on a Z Car with ITBs being driven in the winter when salt is on the roads...aside from summer beach running, that is.

 

Awe c'mon, you're making it very hard to play devil's advocate... :flamedevi

 

Phar

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What about mylar film used as a sandwiching material?? It occurred to me while reading about the heat shield idea, and it never has before. I had no idea how mylar would work in this sort of high temp situation, but it certainly makes for an absolute minimal size and weight sacrifice to a layer of your sandwich.. AND is highly reflective. any chance of getting a mylar film and wrapping the header side of your shield with any success??

 

 

This thread makes me want to go back to my high school and get all of their casting goodies out of the store room since I was probably the last person to cast anything there in 1980.

 

Just awesome the lengths people are going.

 

Hmmmmm.... what high school?? I have several family members that work for the school board....... mwahahahahahaaaa:flamedevi :icon56:

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I believe mylar is more radiant heat barrier in construction materials. I specified in in a couple of metal buildings due to it's properties.

 

I don't think it would survive the environment. That is why the mirrored polish stainless would work facing the exhaust---and like Derek mentioned, with the mill finish facing outward to the visible eye, would be very 'stock OEM looking'.

 

I have made a few SS heat Shields for the Bonneville Car from the stainless steel used on Munters / Atlas Copco regenerative dryer drums. It's pretty nicely polished for air handling use, and I actually scuff it with a DA and fine sandpaper to take the sheen off after metalworking it.

 

The side that faces the drums is what I prefer to face 'out' as it's almost exactly the same coloration and dull finish as the stock heat shields.

 

But a quick run with a cotton buff and triploi, and I can SEE myself in it!

 

MEH... I like dull and sneaky more than flashy and attention getting.

 

Outside of the Shark's Teeth on the bottom of my front bumper, that is! LOL

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