Rollcage on the street

[Scottie-GNZ]

Interesting thread! I am in the same situation being forced to upgrade to a full cage or slow the car down While I dont drive on the street a lot anymore, it is a concern especially since I get lax sometimes and just use the 5-pt lap belt only on the street. I would think the padding on the halo would help some but also sure my helmet will be touching the halo even w/o the padding.

[WizardBlack]

I had a full cage in a street/track Zcar back in 1995 and it was in a total loss accident... I had my "racing" harnesses on (5 point JRZs) and the accident consisted of a heavy duty "plumbing truck" with lots of hardware/tools loaded up in it (large box truck) rearending me and pushing the car into the back of a Ford Taurus sedan. My head hit the halo on the roll bar. Even though the halo bar was padded, I had a concussion.

 

I'll never own another street driven car with a "full cage"...

 

Mike

 

I can't see how, in your case, the lack of the halo would made much of a difference. I would suspect that the halo with padding isn't any stiffer than the metal behind it that you would have hit in it's absence, no?

 

How about sickboy's type of cage? Change the door bars so they are back up to the level of the door latch and then remove the bar starting at the a-pillar and the halo bars to avoid hitting your head? The beam running through the dash and "tee'd" down to the trans tunnel should hold the front of the door bars at the door hinge well enough, no? As in, compared to no cage or a full cage with head impact? Basically make a "tub" cage...

[bjhines]

I would not drive mine without a helmet. There is very little clearance between your head and the halo tubing. I have struggled with that part of the cage design.

Here are some pics with the padding on. My helmet is nearly always in contact with the halo bar.

 

 

 

The door X-bar is 2 V-bent tubes with a 14gauge gusset.

 

I still need to pad the lower ankle area with more SFI high density padding.

[sickboy]

Thats and interesting setup. Care to share more pics?

 

More pics of my setup. Designed to increase chassis stiffness and still be able to get in and out of the car without pulling my groin. Definitely a compromise in several areas but I believe it will suit my needs (track days, auto-x, some street use). No doubt not as stiff or safe as multiple door bars and a race seat mounted to the cage itself. Maybe next car.

[LLave]

More pics of my setup. Designed to increase chassis stiffness and still be able to get in and out of the car without pulling my groin. Definitely a compromise in several areas but I believe it will suit my needs (track days, auto-x, some street use). No doubt not as stiff or safe as multiple door bars and a race seat mounted to the cage itself. Maybe next car.

 

I really like it. What do your local experts think?

[sickboy]

I really like it. What do your local experts think?

 

The car is still in pieces in my garage, a few local z car guys have dropped by to see it and seemed to like it. This is my first cage and I found out I'm miserably slow at bending and fitting tubes (35+ hours into it). Next is fitting up the fiberglass repro dash (mock-up brackets can be seen in the pics).

[Mikelly]

Without knowing the distance between the halo and the roof/frame/windshield behind it, it's kinda hard to make that statement... But the bottom line is you don't want a roll cage to be put into a normal street driving scenario where you would be more likely to come into unprotected contact with the metal tubes. In my case, it didn't work out well. This subject comes up on every car related BB I am on and every single expert opinion I've read has been "NO, you're risking more serious injury with it."

 

Mike

 

I can't see how, in your case, the lack of the halo would made much of a difference. I would suspect that the halo with padding isn't any stiffer than the metal behind it that you would have hit in it's absence, no?

 

How about sickboy's type of cage? Change the door bars so they are back up to the level of the door latch and then remove the bar starting at the a-pillar and the halo bars to avoid hitting your head? The beam running through the dash and "tee'd" down to the trans tunnel should hold the front of the door bars at the door hinge well enough, no? As in, compared to no cage or a full cage with head impact? Basically make a "tub" cage...

[WizardBlack]

Without knowing the distance between the halo and the roof/frame/windshield behind it, it's kinda hard to make that statement...

 

This subject comes up on every car related BB I am on and every single expert opinion I've read has been "NO, you're risking more serious injury with it."

 

Mike

 

Both good points.

[EMWHYR0HEN]

I would not drive mine without a helmet. There is very little clearance between your head and the halo tubing. I have struggled with that part of the cage design.

Here are some pics with the padding on. My helmet is nearly always in contact with the halo bar.

 

 

 

The door X-bar is 2 V-bent tubes with a 14gauge gusset.

 

I still need to pad the lower ankle area with more SFI high density padding.

 

John,

 

your car's coming together nicely, great progress!

 

I don't know how tall you are, but maybe you can lower your seats mounts?

[essdeezee]

I don't know if anyone visited the link I posted back on page one. It wasn't mentioned by any subsequent posters but the gist of it is this:

 

The use of an additional layer of factory sheetmetal welded to the car's body in certain areas of stress, combined with limited tubing in the area directly around the passenger can be very effective in increasing chassis stiffness, and in some cases, crash protection.

 

I think that the pictures in the link would say it all.

 

Trust me, it's worth it just to see the fabrication porn.

[260DET]

This is what was done with my 2 seat 280ZX. Legally for a road registered car entry/exit cannot be compramised which dictated the 'door bar' design, what can't be seen are rails running under the sill/rocker panels. These are tied in with the rest of the cage and body.

 

No padding at all was required by the approving engineer because no part of the cage was deemed to be a potential impact hazard. In use the body appears to be very strong, there is no indication of twist for example when driving over spoon drains diagonally, despite having a stiff suspension setup.

 

[LLave]

I don't know if anyone visited the link I posted back on page one. It wasn't mentioned by any subsequent posters but the gist of it is this:

 

The use of an additional layer of factory sheetmetal welded to the car's body in certain areas of stress, combined with limited tubing in the area directly around the passenger can be very effective in increasing chassis stiffness, and in some cases, crash protection.

 

I think that the pictures in the link would say it all.

 

Trust me, it's worth it just to see the fabrication porn.

 

Yeah it is a pretty sweet build. The doubling of stock sheet metal in a few critical areas does seem like a good idea. I really like their fancy pants gussets. Very cool stuff.

[LLave]

This is what was done with my 2 seat 280ZX. Legally for a road registered car entry/exit cannot be compramised which dictated the 'door bar' design, what can't be seen are rails running under the sill/rocker panels. These are tied in with the rest of the cage and body.

 

No padding at all was required by the approving engineer because no part of the cage was deemed to be a potential impact hazard. In use the body appears to be very strong, there is no indication of twist for example when driving over spoon drains diagonally, despite having a stiff suspension setup.

 

 

That looks very nice. I may end up doing something like that in my S30. If I can find the space, which will be difficult because well... I am not exactly the smallest driver and the S30 is not exactly spacious. 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag.

[JustinOlson]

On my car, I'm lowering the seats as much as possible. You'd be surprised how low they can go. Your legs do become more straightened tho.

 

Justin

[proxlamus©]

bump for a very interesting read =)

[260DET]

This is what was done with my 2 seat 280ZX. Legally for a road registered car entry/exit cannot be compramised which dictated the 'door bar' design, what can't be seen are rails running under the sill/rocker panels. These are tied in with the rest of the cage and body.

 

No padding at all was required by the approving engineer because no part of the cage was deemed to be a potential impact hazard. In use the body appears to be very strong, there is no indication of twist for example when driving over spoon drains diagonally, despite having a stiff suspension setup.

 

 

Pic got lost, here it is again.

[hoov100]

One thing that wasn't mentioned in this thread yet, is that roll cage padding is designed to lessen the blow WITH a helmet. I have hit my head on roll cage tubing with and without padding to know how awesome roll bar padding is.

[johnc]

One thing that wasn't mentioned in this thread yet, is that roll cage padding is designed to lessen the blow WITH a helmet. I have hit my head on roll cage tubing with and without padding to know how awesome roll bar padding is.

 

Roll cage padding is designed to work with a helmet.

[johnc]

Got in the discussion over the weekend with a couple guys at Buttonwillow. I picked up a 1 1/2" OD jack handle and said, "Which one of you want me to pop them in the head with this? I won't even take a full swing, just a little flick of the wirst" Both said no.

[LLave]

Pic got lost, here it is again.

 

 

That cage looks very well tucked away and probably would not be too much of a hazard. Though it is very hard to tell how the body will stretch and contort in an accident. For myself i determined that even with seats positioned on the floor the S30 chassis is just not big enough to put a cage far enough away from the head of a 6 foot tall guy. Though I will say that I feel head butting a 1.5" dia tube with cage padding or head butting stock sheet metal is probably not all that different, as far as PSI. But thats like, my opinion, man.