Zgotrip Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Well something was way wrong with the suspension on this car as soon as I drove it and now we see the damage, but the cause is a bit of a mystery for me. This is a ground control setup as far as I can tell, I believe the strut housings are 280z sectioned but I have to figure out how much was taken off. Both fronts are wasted and the rears are rubbing just not near as bad. Springs are Eibach 10†175# Rears and 150# up front. Inserts are unknown at this point. From what I can find around the site this is to light a spring rate, could that cause this kind of damage? Not sure why it would. Anyway looks like I will be looking for some parts soon and don’t want to see this happen to the new stuff. Any ideas are appreciated…Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The problem is the inflexibility of the rubber insulator. It doesn't flex enough to allow the top hat to stay aligned with the spring perch. If you got Ground Control's newer style camber plate it would allow the two to stay aligned, and then the spring would compress straight. With the setup you have the strut is at one angle and the top hat at another, so when the spring compresses it bends and wears off the threads on the coilover. It's not particularly harmful, so unless you want to adjust the height to the area where the damage is or you want to buy a camber plate that can compensate, I'd continue to run what you have. New sleeves are going to get torn up exactly the same way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zgotrip Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Thanks Jon for another great answer, makes perfect sense. I don’t have a problem running theses if I can make it work. The ride in the front is just unbearably hard and wanders all over the road. I know I need to address the camber if its going to be this low but I was thinking of going with LCAs to avoid hacking up the car. Is the theory that the lighter springs cranked up will make the car stiffer than need be at the same height? This thing just has no give …Or am I just lost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 If you find the ride harsh with 150# springs I'd suspect the shocks as the culprit. That's not a stiff spring, strictly speaking. Not sure what you mean about cranked up springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nazgule6 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Sorry about your coilover issue, but i just want to add that, thats a nice looking z 8) whats your tire/rims size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 With a fixed upper spring perch you'll often get that kind of wear on the threaded collar. Adding a Torrington bearing and two races to the bottom spring perch helps a bit. Otherwise, just plan on replacing the threaded collar every couple years. Despite the looks its not that big a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zgotrip Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Thanks again guys, still trying to find the time to work this one out...nazgule6 the rims are sportmax 002's 8x16 0 offset, tires are 225/45's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxsleeper Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Is it possible that those are 2.25" springs as well? They springs just don't look quite right to me. Jon, I agree with you and John about the cause but also I found that the OEM rubber upper perch will not keep the spring centered either. Somewhere I have a picture of mine from the race car where the bottom area of the upper perch was cut with a band saw and then ground until a carrera style upper perch was fitted into the OEM piece to keep it centered. Edited December 13, 2009 by rxsleeper I can't speel :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Is it possible that those are 2.25" springs as well? They springs just don't look quite right to me.Jon, I agree with you and John about the cause but also I found that the OEM rubber upper perch will not keep the spring centered either. Somewhere I have a picture of mine from the race car where the bottom area of the upper perch was cut with a band saw and then ground until a carrera style upper perch was fitted into the OEM piece to keep it centered. I thought people doing this were using a top hat which rested on the insulator and kept it centered. I would think that just resting the 2.5" spring on the insulator would be a big problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zgotrip Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Well I finally got around to getting fronts out so now I know what its made of. Springs are 2.5x10 at 150# and they do have the top hat that fits in the end of the isolator. Struts are sectioned with the spring perch welded on 5.75 in from the bottom of the strut, I believe these are the 240 struts. The bumpsteer spacer is ¾ in thick and the inserts are illuminas BZ1073 for the VW. The struts aren’t leaking and seem to be smooth enough. I was also pleasantly surprised to find ALCA’s already on the car…cool. The only real problem I can see is the totally blown out to the point of binding control arm ball joints, also the gland nuts were just finger tight. So I guess unless someone tells me this setup just isn’t worth it I will replace the ball joints, and see if I can get it to feel right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLave Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 It's too far gone... Looks like you will have to sell the car to me, and cheap too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnosez Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The sectioned struts may not have been welded on correctly allowing the springs to rub against the threaded collars. Depending on how the collars fit on the struts they may be stuck in one position and the collars will be damaged in just that area. In most cases the damage is not in an area you will be using to position your perch so it's more of a cosmetic issue rather than a structural one. I would suggest a set of camber plates (inner or weld on) and some real top hats made for 2.5-inch springs. This would allow you to center the springs and get some needed negative camber for those wheels (at your ride height you might need more spring and a few degrees negative to allow the wheels to tuck into the rear wells). Talk with John Coffey.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I believe Jon has hit it spot on, I have the exact same issue with mine. I am running GC's with sectioned struts and I took alot of care in aligning them properly. Ive never noticed the rubbing will driving and it really doesn't affect the functionality. Ill replace the sleeves whenever I install camber plates but until then everything works fine. As a side note I am running 250/275 10" springs with tokico illuminas and the car is real comfortable. Its stiff but not harsh at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zgotrip Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Thanks for all the input guys..so far my thinking is this, the car is to low, i love the look and have owned more than a few slammed rides but this one needs to come up a wee bit. I think i have found a set of 200# springs so those will go in the back and the 175# can ride up front. Also think i will take off the burned out 225/45/16's and fit 225/50/16's not sure on that one though. The rear fenders are rolled and have a little flare (not my favorite thing about this car) so i don't think rubbing will be that big a problem. Camber plates may be in the future but have only driven this thing for about 30min total (started snowing as soon as i got it off the trailer) so i need a little more seat time before i figure out where to inject the cash, so for now waiting on a few parts from MSA...240hoke you have one of my all time favs...drooled over your car many times...way nice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240hoke Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I personally think the car is sitting perfect! It sure does look good. I had mine that low most of the time I drove it with the L6. Had to raise it up a bit for clearance with the VQ...regretfully. I dont think being that low is going to affect the ride as much as you think unless you are slamming hte bumpstops all the time....and with sectioned struts you really shouldnt be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Speed Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Car is sitting oh so nice, i can tell she doesn't wan't to be raised lol.... just listen to her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zgotrip Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 HA!! You guys are killing me...it wont take much to convince me to leave at that height. so what about the stiffer springs? just feels like the 150# in the front don't have a chance against the illuminas. hopefully i will have it back on the ground this weekend and see if the new balljoints make a difference..not sure on that one, but couldn't even move the old ones without a hammer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Turn your struts down to 1 or 2 for street driving and it should be fine. I took my 75 year old father for a ride in my Z with 200/250 springs and Illuminas on 1, camber plates and monoball TC rods and control arms and he thought it rode pretty nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Is this the kind of damage seen on all coil overs or just those that are sectioned and lowered? I plan to go with coil overs, but won't be lowering it any more than it already is and will be using the illuminas I already have for the 240z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylemer Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Agree, the ride height is nice. I am in the process of putting together a set of coil overs for my 73, which brings me to ask, are you only half way down on your treaded sleeves at the pictured ride height? How far are you from the bump stops at static ride height? I think you need to post up some more pics. Nice Z -Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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