Tap and die set question

[Mycarispurty]

I'm going to be having a block taken to the machine shop in a week or so to have it dipped and checked to see if the bore is still standard and then have the glaze broken with a quick hone job, and wanted to chase the threads when I got it back home. Im looking at some tap and die sets from Northern Tool, metric size of course, and wanted to see if this set would cover the size taps I need. Also to see if a cheap set is fine for chasing threads instead of buying a pricey Snap On or similar set.

 

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_34565_34565

 

In case that link doesn't work (their page sucks sometimes), here's the info:

 

In this quality tool steel coarse and fine set, you get one tap and one die in sizes M3 x 0.5 through M12 x 1.75, PLUS a 1/8in. pipe tap. You also get one T-handle and one long-handle adjustable tap wrench, die handle, screw pitch gauge, screwdriver and case.

 

It's $30 and figured that might be worth picking up to use for this job and keep around for future use.

[Mikez31ss]

I used a Harbor Freight set on my z31. The dies and taps were fine. The tap wrench was junk.

[Mycarispurty]

I saw a review on a cheap Craftsman set I think it was that a guy said the cheaper taps weren't very accurate. I of course don't want to cut out good threads or damage anything that in the end will make my head bolts or main bolts pull out of the block. However, I don't know if that review was towards cutting threads or just chasing existing ones.

[1 fast z]

Spend the money on a high speed steel set. Much better and longer lasting than a carbon steel set.

[rejracer]

Another option is a thread chaser set, it's not a tap and die set, but made specifically for cleaning up threads.

Craftsman 40 pc. Tap and Die Set, Master Rethreader

 

For a list of the fulfilling retailer(s) to your MyGofer pickup location, click here.

 

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00952105000P?mv=rr

 

I've had this kit for about 5 years, and I've used it many many times. Quality is good.

 

There has been a time or 2 where the threads are severly damaged that it has required a tap, but if you can get a bolt threaded in the hole in the first place, this set is the way to go in my opinion.

 

I've used the thread files as well, they came in handy cleaning up the threads on a stub axle when the locking nut came off while driving.

[kiwi303]

Spend the money on a high speed steel set. Much better and longer lasting than a carbon steel set.

 

I actually got a carbide set, far more brittle than tool steel sets, but they also hold their edge and cut the same far longer than a steel set cutting steel.

[letitsnow]

The picture in the link in the first post looks EXACTLY like the set I got from harbor freight.

[thetremendoustim]

why is this in this section??? snap on is meant for like hundreds of hours of use per month, but harbor freight will work fine imo i used harbor freight and they turned out real clean!!

[G-rib-73-240z]

why is this in this section??? snap on is meant for like hundreds of hours of use per month, but harbor freight will work fine imo i used harbor freight and they turned out real clean!!

 

I dont know about the whole snap on is ment for hundreds of hours of use per month, all we use at my work is snap on and their taps are over priced junk, id rather use a carbide tap then a hhs only real problem you could face with carbide is droping it, or getting a feed wrong in a mill or lathe but seeing as you would be doing this by hand you shouldnt have a problem if you do it by hand.

 

the only good thing about snap on is once you buy it you can get it replaced by snap on for free as long as it says snap on.

[Pyro]

if you are on a budget then a carbon steel set is fine for casing threads. But not good for much else.

 

high speed tool steel is what you want, but cost 3 times more.

[BRAAP]

I have found that for machine tooling, quality is one of those that follows the rule of you get what you pay for. An entire set of taps and dies for for only $29?! They will probably work, but will lose their edge quickly, more importantly are prone to breaking, vs a quality tap. Even quality taps can break and must be handled with care, the cheapos are just that much easier to break. Last thing you want is to have to take your block back to the machine shop and pay them to extract your broken tap. Wont be cheap and in some case will require helicoil or bush and rethread.

The thread chaser kit rejracer mentioned is great kit, the thread files are very handy for cleaning up boogered threads on bolts.

Another technique commonly used by budget DIY types, for chasing existing threads are still in good condition but just need a clean up is to make your thread chaser using a bolt. Cut flutes along the threads to capture the debris, add twist tot he flutes while can help extract the debris. 2-4 is flutes with a thin air power part off wheel, or thick dremel part off wheel, or even a steady hack saw blade.

 

Tool trucks such as Snap-On, MAC, Matco, Cornwell, etc are great for standard hand tools and quality brand name tooling, but definitely do NOT purchase machine tooling from them. Been there done that, Snap-On's taps and tap handles, Machine tooling on the parts trucks is one area where the quality is not there for repetitive use, even their prices are reflect such tooling compared to genuine quality machine tooling.

 

If you are only going to use them a hand few of times through out your life, then yes, that cheapo set from Northern might work but use extreme caution if they start to bind as they are will break easily. You can get the same sets from Harbor Freight as well.

 

 

 

If you want to use your taps more regularly and for actually tapping metals for fab projects and/or just prefer to have quality tools for the job, I recommend staying way from tap "sets" and buy the taps individually from a machinist outlet such as MSC, etc and as Pyro mentioned, HSS will get you further than carbon steel. You shouldn't need any dies. A thread file like those in the kit rejracer listed is a good investment.

 

 

If ordering individual taps, common thread sizes on the L series engines are, (All threads are metric in mm);

6x1.0 (Valve cover, cam thrust plate, cam oil spray bar, timing chain inspection cover, front cover, dizzy, Timing chain guide and tensioner, water pump, oil pan, crank case breather screen holder)

8x1.25 (oil pump, front cover, water in, thermostat housing, carb intake mani, exhaust mani, cam towers, mech fuel pump)

10x1.25 (EFI intake mounting)

10x1.5 (mains, head bolts, bellhousing, engine mounts)

 

 

A few of the the not so common sizes, you most likely will not need taps for these;

12x1.25 (Flywheel)

16x1.5 (Damper bolt)

16x2.0 (Cam sprocket bolt)

 

Hope that helps,

Paul

[Brad-ManQ45]

I would also like to mention that bottom taps are available and should be used on all blind holes that have needed tapping.

[JMortensen]

I have a MATCO set of taps and dies, and I've used it quite a bit and it's great. I bought it because the driver said MATCO would warranty it for life, unlike Snap-On if I recall. No regrets on my tap/die set purchase at all. Now my piece of crap MATCO 1/4" drive air ratchet on the other hand. That was a very expensive paperweight.

[waddiejohn]

I like Hanson and Greenlee taps as well as ACE brand. Northern Tool is the last place I buy because I purchased a stove kit from them and have gotten all kinds of catalogs in the mail from people selling safety equipment, lables and tags and all kinds of junk since and believe they sold my info to those other people.

Waddie

[Tony D]

I think the mix betwen Brad-Man and Braap is what I would suggest: Get BOTTOMING TAPS in the sizes needed, of GOOD QUALITY from a machine tool supplier like MSC or Rutland Tool, etc.

 

For the cost of half a dozen taps that will be used more than you suspect (once you HAVE a bottoming tap, suddenly all those holes seem to get chased when doing maintenance work...)

 

Having the bare minimum to do the job will give you a small tool box full of stuff that works on your car, without paying for anything you rarely, if ever will use.

 

Good machining tools pay dividends that you won't measure in $. And really, they aren't that expensive.

 

I miss being in Japan (even though I'm there now...) where I could go into just about ANY hardware store and pick up a set of three taps. One bottoming one was in there, and machinists will know what the other two were for... An M6X1.0 set was under $5 at the time. Extremely good quality Japanese HSS or Cobalt Taps. I just took it for granted they were sold like that everywhere... I was wrong!