Need some help with college (longgg rant)

[Leon]

Speaking of how it was for older generations...I concede I didn't have it as bad as these guys:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13JK5kChbRw

 

I couldn't resist!

[SHO-Z]

I got a BS in Mechanical Engineering Technology from Metropolitain State College in Denver CO, I was in my 40s after a back injury I had to find a new ocupation. The degree is for engineers that want to be a design engineer and is ABET certified. All of the classes are taught be professors not grad students. I survived calc and physics, heck physics is just a condensed ME degree class. For me I had to look at getting an engineering degree like a job. There were a few other students from School of Mines and came to Metro for the more hands on and personal help they need to become engineers. I am now a PE so no one cares where I got my degree. And after you graduate as a design engineer you will add, subtract, multiply and divide, look it up in a book and know that your answer makes sence like the rest of us.

[josh817]

After meeting up with my adviser and seeing how many courses can be taken at a community college, I think I will tough it out as an AE. You can take all the weed out classes at community college. I had to hold the advisers feet to the fire for a while until you let up. He tries to scoot you along until I say I'm thinking about leaving.

[Tony D]

" I could care less if you read it out loud, read it on the toilet, whatever. My question to you was WHY did you read it, knowing the engineer was behind you. WHAT response were you looking for. "

 

My exact thought: "Does this sound like ranting or whining"

 

Bill confirmed the latter, and not the former. So I didn't feel bad thinking you sounded like you were whining about how hard you had it. If someone else feels similarly...then it's not an abberant thought of mine alone.

 

If you could care less if I read it out loud...why did you mention it, and then change what you say later? You're right, don't go into teaching.

 

""IN MY DAY I JUST KNUCKLED DOWN" <--- Does it pertain to my situation?"---Yep

 

"I firmly stand on saying, you are not being helpful as of right now, you are now here for the soul purpose of stirring things up. "

 

Or to simply offer a counterpoint that does not follow today's method of patting your head and encouraging you to do what you feel man. I flunked out of EST. Sorry. I'm not a whiner. Never was, it doesn't get you anywhere. That I don't give you the answer you want...I'm the bad guy. The world needs people who don't sugar coat it. If you can't cut it, then quit, but for GODS SAKE don't whine about it, JUST DO IT!

 

"You don't hit the age of 45 and say "well I've lived 45 years, I've had 45 years of mistakes and learning. It is now inconceivable for me to be wrong."

 

Never contended that. Don't know where you get it. Maybe you're PM'ing with someone else and are guilty of the 'bring another thread here' syndrome. In my experience, transferrence is a big thing with people. You mention it as that is likely what you will do, and assume others will do the same. Same for me and whining. I don't see the point. Neither does Bill. Who, btw said "What website is that on? No, waitaminit, I got to get work done, I don't want to know, he's not worth it!" He's evaluated your situation and discarded you. Are you enraged now that someone has made a subjective opinion about you who has never met you 'he doens't even know me'---welcome to the adult working world! Judgement is something done on a daily basis, and it CAN be unfair. But people weigh their time against the results. Perhaps the weeding is jsut the colleges way of determining who they want to put their time into, and who will give their institution the better name after they get into the working world. That you may not be one of them is really not their concern.

 

"-Firstly there is a time and a place for everything, that's an easy concept and we all know this. Your gallivanting doesn't belong in a thread that has to do with someone who is at a confusing point in their life. You wouldn't gallivant in JSM's thread a while ago about how he was having a hard time. You wouldn't say "you're whining too much JSM" and go around talking with your colleagues, making jokes saying he needs some panty protectors because of what he's going through. You could but you wouldn't because you're better than that." "HUH ????"

 

Maybe I didn't see his thread. I have no clue what you're driving at here---that was poppy who went on about laying pipe with the easy girls AFTER you asked him about it. What answer did you expect? IF YOU DON'T WANT THE ANSWER DON'T ASK THE QUESTION!

 

As for 'big' or 'fat' --- If I say "I'm Fat" I see no reason why I would not tell someone else 'dude, you're fat' or 'babe, you're fat' if you are so hung up on obfuscation and the dance of social interaction perhaps you need to go into SALES or MARKETING. Facts and figures aren't polite.

 

 

Harry Truman said 'if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen'---you appear to be VERY driven by what OTHER people think. Your father, people on the internet, your peers... You need to man up and learn your place in the world. It may not be engineer. If YOU don't like it QUIT! Go into marketing, sales, public relations, basketweaving, really nobody cares. What has to happen is YOU have to be content with YOUR decision. If you let OTHER people's impressions and thoughts about you BOTHER you SO MUCH that you run your life FOR THEM (which is what it sounds like to me...) then you will be UNHAPPY no matter how much you make, what you are doing, or where you are.

 

I could give a crap (as you can see) about what other people think. I did NOT do what my parents wanted immediately--I did it eventually as a part of my own process. If you live your life for someone else you're hosed.

 

I wouldn't condemn an Alcoholic for going to his first AA meeting, as it takes INNER STRENGTH to ADMIT (and yes, you have to become HUMBLE to admit you have screwed up your own life) he can't handle his problems properly and needs assistance. The same goes for you---you want to seem to hear that there is some way to quit and make everybody else happy so then you will be happy with the decision.

 

What you have to learn is that YOU make YOURSELF happy. Other people and other peoples' opinions don't. Do what YOU think will be best. They may not like it. They may cut off the funding and tell you 'you are on your own!'---and then in that case welcome to the world of an adult. Right now you are swimming like a child trying to make everybody else happy and you don't have a clue that it's not OTHER people's opinions that should drive YOUR contentment! Until you realize that, this decision will be hard to make because you are serving the wrong masters.

 

Parents may drive you towards something they know will be best for you, but if you can't hack it, you can't hack it. No shame in ADMITTING IT and just moving on. And this is where the whining comes it. It's based from what I can see by the quandary that you have placed yourself into by putting so much importance on pleasing your FAMILY and not yourself. You want to quit and if you were paying the bills you could do so with a clear concience. But maybe you aren't---I don't know, that is usually why kids in school get conflicted because mom and dad are paying.

 

I told my parents that if I went to college and was with the same friends I had at the same school I would be wasting their money. They did not appreciate that I didn't want to go NOW NOW NOW. I waited a couple of years. I watched what happened to my friends, especially engineers who gained a LOT of hard-knocks experience and were GLAD to tell me about it. But I didn't go and party with them and fail out of the school. I went when I felt I was ready. And as a result was far more focused and with nobody to distract me worked out better.

 

Years later my dad realized I actually KNEW MYSELF better than he knew me, and that I had done the right thing. I got AWAY from my family, friends, and everything for an extended period to distance myself from bad habits and bad paths. It worked.

 

But to do that I had to KNOW MY LIMITATIONS. I like to think I do. And to be happy, the first thing I learned was I couldn't live for anybody else.

 

If you can get over that hurdle, this will not be a conflicted moment. It will simply be a business decision and you make it and move on. You are tied up in emotions, and are not admitting some things to yourself. These (liek the aforementioned alcoholic) can only be resolved within YOURSELF. All the advice and talking on the internet will not really do a lot other than stroke your decision and console you...or try to make you think.

 

In the end, you have to come to grips with yourself internally. Only you can do that. The conflict as I see it is due to your dependence on external opinion. Shed that baggage and this decision becomes easy.

 

It's easy to write down, difficult to do. And YOU have to do it.

 

There was some point-to-point back and forth, but it culminates in the last bit. It's groundwork. I don't know what the JSM reference was at all, have no clue. The important thing to take away from all this is YOU need to clear your emotions and YOU need to deal with the baggage YOU have encumbered YOURSELF with. It has nothing to do with academic performance. I'm telling you HOW you make this decision, not WHY you make it. Nothing wrong in saying "I can't handle this I quit!" Just make sure it's an honest statement. It may be, or years later you will look back and regret it. Only time will tell. I'm no crystal ball magician. But I've usually got a pretty good handle on people and personalities from how they convey things. And usually younger guys can't stand that I hit the nail so close on the head far too many times. I don't know if this is you in this instance, but I have my suspicions. Either way it doesn't really matter.

 

And thank you for using Moot correctly. I am not displeased.

[josh817]

Thanks for your input, Tony and thank you to everyone else. I've decided to stick with it but just go to community college. Now the only thing I need to worry about is finances. I am dropping Chemistry for Engineers and going to take Chem 1 and 2 at a community college instead.

 

As I said before, you have to hold your advisers feet to the fire for them to start opening up. As soon as I said I have a few question and depending on the response will decide whether I change my majors he snapped to attention. I figure when you have them as professors, they won't care about you until you poke them enough to get their attention otherwise they push you off to the side, they have work to do.

 

I already posted my schedule on page 2, so you can see how much work there is to be done. I feel like I'm really far behind... good news is the classes I've been taking, everyone else has to take too. Comparatively, I'm still neck to neck. While I'm doing my basic math and sciences they will have to do their history, English, etc.

Edited October 29, 2010 by josh817

[BLOZ UP]

Tony sure makes some long posts. Cliff's?

[josh817]

Cliff's?

 

That's just Tony I guess. Especially if someone like me gets him going.

 

 

 

The dubstep on the radio sucks today.

 

Nick I may need to pick your brains about Megasquirt and fuel injectors.

Edited October 29, 2010 by josh817

[BLOZ UP]

You listen to dubstep?

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2WlrzkkkBQc

 

EDIT: Wait, they play it on the radio? What channel?

Edited October 29, 2010 by BLOZ UP

[josh817]

Mmm I love Optimus Gryme. I have all his mixes.

 

I meant online radio.

[datsun723]

You listen to dubstep?

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2WlrzkkkBQc

 

EDIT: Wait, they play it on the radio? What channel?

So good. Love dubstep.

 

Mistabishi

[Tony D]

What takes long pages to read takes but moments to speak.

 

I am in a funk today because my friend's dad died. My dad sent me the Obit. I am a bit upset the hometown newspaper glossed over his military accomplishments.

 

Ever see "When we were soldiers once, and young."? Sam Elliott's character of the Sgt Major?

 

This guy was in the 5/7, and was one of the outfits involved in that battle. And that is how the guy comported himself.

 

Those were the guys I grew up around. I had no idea at the time there was anything special about him, other than he was in the Army. I did not know he was Garyowen and AirCav.

 

I am profoundly saddened by a warriors passing.

 

Obituary of George Porod

[Uncle Sherman]

There's a lot to read in this thread, and I admit to not having read all of it so it's possible some of this will have been written here already. Nonetheless here's a few thoughts.

 

First, some background. I wanted to be a pilot when I graduated from high school, but my family wouldn't fund Emory Riddle or Parks College, so, given that I liked tinkering with motors and cars and was pretty good at it, I was forced as a second choice (my folks' first choice) to major in engineering at a big local state university. Didn't go well and I flunked out. After a year of going from 2-S to 1-A in draft status (this was in the 1960's), I went to a local smaller private college and majored in math, at least in part to regain my student deferment. That didn't go well either, so in order to get away from the anger and angst in my family (I was a commuter at both institutions) I enlisted in the Air Force. I did well on the assessment tests and wound up taking a year of training as a radio repair technician. 4 years later I was discharged, and after a couple of civilian jobs fixing electronic stuff I got a job at a local state college fixing lab equipment in the Physics Department, which also meant fixing stuff I never even heard of for all the science departments. This led to explaining how the equipment worked to the students that used some of it (freshman and sophomore labs), which grew into explaining the physics involved, then to explaining how to do their homework (I had department copies of the textbooks they used and knew the assignments, and with the help of a couple of professors who would help me- I had a coffee pot in my shop and they all were coffee drinkers- I learned enough to be useful as a tutor.) This grew into running remedial study sessions and as-needed impromptu classes for those who needed a second explanation of how the physics worked, and refresher classes in Algebra, Calculus and Trigonometry for those who hadn't gotten that level of math education in high school. Finally, a department chairman who was interested in helping students (not at all a universal commitment among the PhD faculty) told me that if I got a degree in physics, they could let me teach freshman classes in math-based physics in the evening session. So at age 55 I got a B.S. in Physics, after taking 42 credits of physics and 15 credits in Math, and spent the last years of my career teaching and tutoring which by then made up about a half or more of my duties.

 

What I learned:

1) There's a difference between "learning about" physics and "doing" physics. "Learning about" physics looks like a stereotypical freshman history course- memorize all the facts and recall them when asked. "Doing" physics means being able to solve math problems, being able to see connections and cause-effect relationships between the concepts and the principles that physics deals with in the natural world. Learning to "do" physics is learning a craft, a process, of learning to use the tools of mathematics to find answers and build knowledge and understanding from knowledge and understanding gained previously by the same process. This "knowledge" is knowing a process, a craft, a skill set of the same nature as the skill set of a concert pianist or a toll-and-die machinist, or a pilot. Because it's so vertically structured, as are any of these- you have to know "A" before you can reasonably understand "B", and you need both of them to get a handle on "C"- physics requires that a student "get" the facts taught AND the techniques and skills that are used on them (the math of calculus, trig, geometry, algebra, and onwards into pretty sophisticated math topics) to advance his understanding and build his skill set at "doing" physics, both of which are the real learning goals in physics classes.

 

"Doing" math is a prerequisite to "doing" physics, and "doing" physics is a prerequisite of "doing" engineering, since engineering is applied physics; that is, engineering is physics with ALL the factors included (no massless string or absent friction, etc). Math is the first skill set needed since Newton (along with others) had to invent Calculus to explain the natural world- "do" physics.

 

2) There are plenty of "professors" who couldn't teach pigeons how to defecate because they were hired for how well they learn (a PhD is no small feat), not how well they teach. Even in small schools, it's much more important how a faculty person generates grants than how well they teach students, which seems to be the last concern for pretty much everybody in the chain of command from the classroom to the president of the place. But that's not to say that NObody cares- seek out those that see it differently.

 

3) In some academic departments, the attitude isn't one of "growing the knowledge of the students", it's being a "gatekeeper"- no one gets to earn credits or a degree unless they can survive the program which, as someone wrote here before, seems to be the goal. Only the really smart survive, no mediocre or average students, only straight A types, so as to be sure no one goes forth from the institution who could embarrass them. Getting a B.S. degree in a hard science at an institution where terminal degrees are offered is more difficult because they don't spend a lot of attention or resources on the undergrad program, their interest is in the grad school and they tacitly assign the role of "filter" to their undergrad program, making it a "gatekeeper" for their grad school. If a Master's or PhD is the goal, it's best to get a B.S. at Podunk Tech (as long as its students do well on GRE's) and go to BigDeal University for the grad degrees, since BigDeal is geared up for that and it's the last school that you went to that has the weight in your resume.

 

4) Sitting in a physics or math lecture and understanding everything the teacher is saying isn't going to get you through an exam, because understanding how they went about solving problems isn't anywhere the same as solving them yourself, which is how you're tested- YOU have to generate the steps to solution and do the math- use the tools- in exams. "Knowing" this stuff isn't shown in only understanding the work of others, it's more important that you can do the work from scratch yourself. Just because you can identify all the piano music written by Chopin doesn't mean you can play it on a piano; if that's what you want or need to do, you need to practice playing the piano. As I wrote, it's a skill set, that's learned only by practice, practice, practice. What one needs to get from being in such a class is best gotten by doing problems over and over until one understands how to do it. What goes on in class is only at best a support for that practice, the beginning knowledge that must be honed and polished. The student must make the real gain for themselves by being proactive, aggressive in doing a lot of active pencil-work alone in the stacks or Starbucks or wherever. Hours of homework practicing problem-solving skills using math, the principles of the science and the tenets of critical thinking (the most important intellectual skill of all of them in every phase of life all the time) are the ingredients for success.

 

5) Some subjects one can learn just by listening to lectures and/or reading the book, some other topics one can learn just by working their butts off and ignoring the book and the lectures. But math and physics need both- not many students can pass a physics or math class as they are taught at most institutions by just reading the text and listening to the lectures; they can't pass by ignoring those and doing a million practice problems either, it takes both. That's why good grades in physics- university level physics, that is, "doing" the math at the level required of science and engineering majors- stands out on anyone's transcript whatever their major was.

 

Best of luck and my fervent hope you succeed at what you set out to do. Don't be discouraged if you can help it, keep plugging and seeking, and you'll succeed, and gain the most powerful satisfaction available.

[Michael]

In an attempt to offer some belated but hopefully nevertheless useful summarizing thoughts….

 

The above post is exactly right. There’s a culture to academia – some of it is predatory, while some is entirely explicable from the constraints placed on professors and the institutions themselves.

 

Competition is not inimical to collaboration. Both are vital towards making progress. I would argue that if professors genuinely competed as lecturers for students’ attention, then lectures would be more informative. 90% failure rates would disappear in a true academic marketplace, as the consumers (the students) would penalize institutions that greedily take their tuition money and peremptorily hand out swaths of failing grades. So sometimes it is precisely the lack of competition that results in punitive and unnecessarily rough practices.

 

But we must realize that training for a career is different from a ladder for selecting champions. It is one thing for engineers to compete for the honor and responsibility of being chief engineer on some large construction project, or similarly, for firms to bid on a competitive basis for that project. This is how such awards ought to be made – and not by central planning, bribery or collusion. But it is quite another thing to line up the students in rank-order of their academic performance, and to dismiss the back 90% of the line. Healthy competition reinforces the pursuit of excellence. But competition as an inveterate end in itself degenerates into a jungle brutality, producing bleeding losers and truculent winners – who themselves may become losers at any moment if fortune fails them.

 

Tony is quite correct that academic success is not an entitlement program; shoddy studying should not be coddled, and lack of preparation is not the responsibility of the professor to overcome through extra attention or of dumbing-down the overall level of instruction. But pointing out the inevitability of hardships in life is no excuse for bombastic remonstration. The very fact that Josh asked for advice is commendable. Let’s leave the injunction to “man up†for second-rate political debates.

 

Let’s also not overlook the crucial role of luck. Yes, I did study hard – but I was lucky that my parents moved into a jurisdiction with great schools, and was even luckier to be precisely in the generational cohort when a public magnet school was established, drawing the best teachers and students (both, I ought to add, on a competitive basis). That school made college a comparative breeze. But things could have turned out very differently. Had I been raised in the jurisdiction where I now reside, I might have turned out like my neighbors – of whom maybe 1/6th have even an undergraduate degree, and many dropped out of high school.

 

Having just spent some time abroad and surveyed the academic situation in various Asian countries, I’m overcome by a realization that whereas American colleges do fairly well in comparison with foreign counterparts, K-12 schools – and especially high schools – are abysmally behind. A kid with the equivalent of a high-school diploma in Europe or Asia is 2-3 years ahead academically relative to his typical American counterpart. College, especially in engineering and the physical sciences, has to make up the gap. So our universities in America really have to pour the knowledge through a fire-hose, to get the students to a globally-competitive level. Actually, even a B.S.E. degree does not offer parity – that’s only achieved in grad school. Advance Josh’s situation by 4 years, and something similar happens: American grad students struggle in the first year of grad school, while students with academic degrees from Europe who study for their engineering Ph.D. in America just breeze through the first-year classes of grad school. But to be fair, in many countries an engineering degree takes 5 or 6 years; 4-year college is an American invention, and the engineering community perennially debates whether our engineering undergraduate curriculum should not, in fact, be extended to a full 5 years.

 

So, the point: engineering is tough, and there are legitimate reasons why it should be tough. It should be a challenge, but it shouldn’t be torture.

 

To the poster who asked about Mark Drela – yes, we’re well acquainted.

[Tony D]

Having worked abroad for some time, I agree 1,000% with the following statements:

 

"A kid with the equivalent of a high-school diploma in Europe or Asia is 2-3 years ahead academically relative to his typical American counterpart. College, especially in engineering and the physical sciences, has to make up the gap. So our universities in America really have to pour the knowledge through a fire-hose, to get the students to a globally-competitive level. Actually, even a B.S.E. degree does not offer parity – that’s only achieved in grad school. Advance Josh’s situation by 4 years, and something similar happens: American grad students struggle in the first year of grad school, while students with academic degrees from Europe who study for their engineering Ph.D. in America just breeze through the first-year classes of grad school. But to be fair, in many countries an engineering degree takes 5 or 6 years; 4-year college is an American invention, and the engineering community perennially debates whether our engineering undergraduate curriculum should not, in fact, be extended to a full 5 years."

 

I have worked with 19 year olds in their third year apprenticeship in the UK that have more theoretical understanding, and practical hands-on skills than the entire staff of field service representatives of a major company I worked with in the USA. AT that company if I'd let them know I was engineering capable, I would never have been hired because I would be 'overqualified'...as if an engineering background somehow disqualifies you from hands-on work in the USA!

 

It's one of the reasons I am where I am: SoCal. I handle the Asia-Pacific Region for engineering technical support and training. If I could do it for Europe it would be similar. I have a real problem with the anti-engineering cultural bias and prejudice I see rampant in the USA, and the almost phobic disassociation between Engineering Programs here, and the hands-on application of theory ("A degreed Engineer as a mechanic? What a waste!"---sadly this seems to be the reality in the USA, that if you are hands-on you are merely a 'mechanic', and consequently the plethora of schools now teaching what used to be 'mechanics' courses are upping their status to 'Technician' when in many cases it's merely parts-replacing to formula that is called for in most places these days.)

 

I am content teaching guys with Masters Degrees in International Finance how to inspect reed valves on a 3.5Kw compressor as they have no illusions about their technical prowess, they realize practical and academic are two different starting points and advancement in one does not necessarily entitle you to leapfrog to the top of the heap in another.

 

I could get into my interview experience with recent graduates and their responses to my standard question: "So, what can you do?" but that would be a different thread altogether!

Edited November 17, 2010 by Tony D

[Flexicoker]

I had similar issues at UTA my first or second year. I failed many classes, and got a lot of shitty grades. I was on academic probation at one point. I seriously considered changing my major to art or industrial design where I could still 'create' albeit at a less technical level. What made me decide to stick with engineering was taking a hard look at the stuff I enjoy doing. My favorite thing in the entire world is racecars. I figured if I could get out of school, and make a decent income working on racecars I would be happy.

 

Formula SAE was drug of choice as well, and I would not trade that for anything. I learned vastly more practical knowledge designing and building racecars in the basement of Woolf Hall then I did in my classes. But it wasn't because the material was not covered in class (although some of it wasn't), I'm just not very good at school. The way I learned the class material was by applying it to those cars. I have to touch, draw, and make to learn. If you don't think that engineering for the rest of your life will make you happy, then change majors. There's no shame in changing your mind. But if you think its what you want to do, then find a way to persevere and make it through. There is shame in being a quitter, and you'll be kicking yourself for the rest of your life for missing out on having a career you enjoy.

 

I graduated in December, and now I'm living near Detroit working for the company that does most of GM's racing programs and a lot of cool research projects. All of my projects are challenging and very fast paced, and I'm working my ass off, doing fun engineering, and hopefully earning the respect of my colleagues. My accomplishments in Formula SAE absolutely helped me get where I am, and helped make up for my poor grades. I think it's extremely valuable when you're looking for a job and can say "I did this, I used these tools, here are my results" rather than the "I'm a hard-worker and a team player" resume fluff bullshit.

 

Based on my friends who have graduated from UTA with a Bachelors in ME or AE in the last couple of years and gotten a job in the DFW area, a starting salary of $45-55k is pretty typical.

[Xnke]

Am I late to the conversation? Yeah, sure.

 

 

But I have had exactly the same experience at the local school here. all the GenEd classes were cake, just walked through them. Engineering classes were just fine, had to study, but nothing major. Chem, I scored well and finished it, no more required chem.

 

But the mathematics courses!

 

I took AP calc in high school, and got a 3 on the AP exam. I took calc 1 in college, and failed it 3 TIMES. After contacting an omsbudsman, it turns out I had mathematically passed the course with a 92% the FIRST time I took the class. At that point, I took what the omsbudsman and I had found straight to the dean of mathematics, and he just brushed it off as "You're wrong, you did not make that score, I do not care what the books say." So we go to the board of regents, and after fighting with them for over a year (and taking classes other than mathematics) I finally get the passing grade to take calculus 2. Took calc 2 over the winter semester, and kept every single page of work I produced for that class. I was issued a grade of 50%, when it was trivial to prove that my work was graded (BY THE SAME PROF) much, much higher than that, i.e., He had simply thrown out the actual numbers and marked a 50% in the book. I took it through the same channels as before, and this time was told that he was a tenured professor, and that there was nothing they were willing to do.

 

I told them to take the paperwork and shove it, and have not been back to college yet. It is simply not worth the bullshit just for a 40,000$ sheet of paper saying that I jumped through hoops and grovelled at the feet of professors for four years. That same sheet of paper often times DOESN'T mean you know your ****, just that you paid the money and kissed enough ass to get it. It is unfortunate that in this country a bachelor's degree in ANY subject has become a "checkmark" item for so many occupations.

 

When I have recouped the money I wasted at the local school, I may try again. I'm about halfway to working back up to the amount of money I had when I started college, so we'll see.

[rturbo 930]

Xnke, that is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. I too have taken Calc 1 three times, but that's because I didn't try. The first time I failed it. The second time I effectively failed it, but the professor gave me a D! For them to fail your for no reason is absolute bullshit. I'm sorry to hear you had such a poor experience. That's really just unacceptable on their part.

[Tony D]

"It is unfortunate that in this country a bachelor's degree in ANY subject has become a "checkmark" item for so many occupations."

 

This, too, I have to agree with, sadly.

[cygnusx1]

    I have only a measly BSME but I have helped ME Graduate's with their homework.  It's sad to see what some students DON'T learn, but still get the "right to practice" because of the sheepskin.    Sadder still to see the supposed "grease monkey", with more intelligence and motivation than the decorated graduates, struggling to "make it".  

Edited November 22, 2010 by cygnusx1

[Tony D]

I would say 'Grease Monkey' should be reserved as a pejorative term...

 

I worked with guys who called themselves that, and they had 4th grade educations (and had been through the war...)

 

But it's like some other words wherein those who participate may call one another this, but it is taboo for those outside the frat to call you that same thing.

 

Just my opinion. I'm not big on using that term though, I find it pretty dismissive for the very reasons it was used in the above post.