wondersparrow Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I have been doing some searching, and I thought I would ask for some opinions here as I have a lot of respect for the Hybridz Crew. The time has come to get some new track tires. This is a track-only car. Nowhere near street legal, so driving to the track is not a concern. I will be running my 240z in GT3 (in Western Canada, not sure if the rules are the same as SCCA) and I am limited to a 15x7 wheel. All along I have been planning on getting some more Hoosier slicks in a 23x9.5x15, but they are quite pricey at $250/tire. I am on a pretty tight budget, so I decided to have a look at Toyo's offerings. They have some great programs for racers that caught my attention. I was looking at both the R888's and RA-1's because they would end up being sooooo much cheaper (more than $100 less per corner). What do the racers around this site use? Will I be giving up a lot in terms of grip moving away from the slicks? The 235/50's would give me the same tread width, but that inch and half larger diameter would lose me some torque, and with a little L24 motor, I am not sure how much that will affect things. The 225/45's will give me the same overall diameter, but I lose an inch of tread width. Ugh, decisions. Anyhoo, I would appreciate any input people can offer. Sparky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 For a 15 x 7 you should be using a cantilevered slick if you want a 9" wide tire. If you're going with DOT's, I'd run a 225 max. Check out used slicks. Not sure how available used cantilevers are, but the tires will at least fit the rim correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTZ Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 My friends run bf goodrich R1 and rave about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 "Tight budget" and "Hoosier" don't go together very well. They are very good the first couple of heat cycles, then start dropping off very quickly with more heat cycles. If you're going to try and run the same tire for several events like most budget racers, I'd look at the Toyos. They're not as quick, but last a lot longer and are much more consistent. Like Jon says, you might buy some used tires from some of the faster/higher budget guys, if you can find the size you need. jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhm Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Ditto the recommendations on used tires. I've bought from this guy a couple times, and I've been extremely impressed with his customer service and the value he provides for your money. Check it out at: eBay used race tires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 It its just for ripping around on track days then any tire will work. Shaved Proxes RA1s last about the longest and fall off the least because they start with less grip then the other DOT-R tires. A set of Hoosier A6s on the track will make you drive like Superman and if you're in any kind of tight competition you'll need 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wondersparrow Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) Cantilevered slicks was the plan. It was just the price that is not so attractive anymore. I have been running them, I have used both Goodyear and Hoosier. Goodyear has become a pain in the arse as there is now only one place in Canada you can get them and it is on the complete opposite end of the country and they don't even keep them in stock. You need at least a 6 week lead time to get them. Not so bad unless you damage some and need replacements quickly. I have seen that ebay store a few times, but it doesn't look like he will ship to Canada. I will have to drop him an e-mail and see. Up here in the great white north we get screwed on a lot of specialty items like race tires. If you can't find a dealer in Canada, you get raped on shipping and duty. Last set of tires I ordered from the US ended up getting the good 'ol UPS tax. Shipping/duty/taxes/brokerage came to over 50% of what the tires cost. Its just not worth it most of the time. Hoosiers are the only slicks I can get from a dealer in town. Pretty much all of the DOT slicks are readily available. I have been asking around about used slicks, but it seems everyone in GT3 or lower is running something like the Toyos. I guess if you have the budget for slicks, you have the budget for GT2 or GT1. Most of them are running 17x10 wheels. I wish the FA tires were available used around here, that would be superfantasic Have any of you guys ran both slicks and DOT on the same car/track? How much "worse" are they? I'll probably have to setup the car a little different to run the radials. More camber from what I understand. Edit: I think I was typing this up when JohnC posted. The RA-1's look like they are being discontinued in favour of the R888s. None of the Candian dealers can get the RA-1s anymore. Has anyone tried the R888s? Does shaving make that big a difference? The Hoosier A6/R6s are not much cheaper than the full slicks at all. For $5/tire I would probably stay with the slicks, even if I do get less life out of them. Edited May 2, 2011 by wondersparrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 If the car is handling well now I would be very careful about changing to slicks, I know where this has been done with detrimental results. Basically the suspension setup, particularly damper valving, is different. What tyres are cantilevered? Know what it means but am not aware of any tyres with that feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) There is a shot of a Z with cantilevered slicks on John's website http://www.betamotorsports.com. Edited May 2, 2011 by JMortensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wondersparrow Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 I apologize for not being more clear off the start. The car has slicks on it now, and they are pretty much wood, hence the need for something new. They are old goodyears and been cycled far too many times. The car has stiff springs and is currently setup for slicks. Cantilevered tires are the ones that bulge out a long way from the rim. the 23x9.5x15's that are on it now are designed for a 7" rim. They go from 7" to about 10" at thier widest and then supposedly give a 9.5" contact patch. I hear the R compound tires are getting better and better every year and I am wondering if slicks really are worth the cost. Squeezing a 235/50R15 on there would give me a similar contact patch. I am not all that competative yet, I have only raced in 5 events total. I am totally self funded and just going out to have some fun. This is why I am seriously looking at things like the Toyo R888 tires. In my complete slaking at work today I have done a lot of reading. The R888s sound like they should be more consistent for longer and are less affected by heat cycling. Slicks can lose thier grip pretty fast. If you have, say, 4 races in a weekend, by the end of the second weekend, they are pretty much toast. This is when high budget racers toss them and guys like me pick them up and run them for half a season My questions are really, how much slower are the R compound tires? Would those experienced say that an R compund tire would be faster than an overused slick? With my hard springs in the car now (can't remember the numbers off the top of my head), would R compounds even work? That is something I hadn't concidered before today. I would assume at the very least that I would need to throw in a couple of degrees of extra camber to get the R compounds to work properly. I know it would mean playing with the setup and retuning the car a little, but if I can get a season (or most of one) out of a set, it might be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=484& Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 The general rule is the better the initial grip the less the effective life eg Yokohama have a semi that a lot of the top time attack teams use but their effective life cycles can be measured on your fingers. Semis are getting better all the time, it sounds like they would suit you providing the suspension is compatible. R888's get varying opinions, my impression is that they are reasonable but that there are better semis around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wondersparrow Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Thats a great read, thanks Jon. Unfortunately I am looking to go backwards compared to everyone else out there. It would be nice to find a similar thread comparing the differences between "supa summa" tires and full slicks. I came across a few, but they were all pretty vague. I guess the question that looms in my mind the most is "What is better, an R compound tire or a used up slick?" I have posted again in some of the local club forums looking for used slicks and they seem to be pretty non-existent at this point in the season. That picture on the beta motorsports site is pretty much exactly what I was planning on before I looked at the costs (and my bank account). I even have the same wheels in gray, hehe. I would even go out on a limb and say those appear to be the same 23x9.5 Hoosiers I was looking at. At $1000 a set, and a few sets a year, I need a second job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wondersparrow Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Oh, I will add... Even though I am not that great at it (yet), this is all out GT racing with a trailered car. This car will never see open streets anywhere. The cop living down the street from my place even negates the chance of ripping around the block :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 BFGoodrich has just released a 225/50-15 R1. They are comparable to a RA1 but with more grip. On a light car like the S30 they will last about 40 to 60 heat cycles or 3 to 5 track weekends. I ran these on my 350Z and they stuck better then RA1s but not as well as V710s or the Hoosiers. Given that your budget and your 15 x 7 wheels are your limiting factor, that's what I recommend. Don't fall for the wide tire on a narrow rim (your 235 on a 7" rim) thing because that just kills the life of the tires and doesn't get you appreciably more grip. Tire Rack has that tire for $194 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wondersparrow Posted May 3, 2011 Author Share Posted May 3, 2011 Those do look pretty sweet, and you are the second person to give them props. I'll have to see what they cost up here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjandriesen Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Toyo RA1 or Nitto NT01. Same compound (Nitto is made by/owned Toyo) and they last a very log time. Ive raced on the Tyoys and am trying the Nittos this season. Shave the toyos to 4/32 for long life for 2/32 for faster lap times. You will not be as fast as pure slick and slightly slower than new Hoosiers. but if price is a key issue its a reasonable trade off. I used to race Spec Miata and when they tried to change the spec tire from RA1s to R888 everyone rejected it. Few thought the R888s were as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Same is true regarding the R888 vs. RA1 in spec Miata here in Cal Club. SCCA just approved the R888 for Spec Miata nationally because Toyo is planning on discontinuing the RA1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) A set of Hoosier A6s on the track will make you drive like Superman and if you're in any kind of tight competition you'll need 'em. THAT is a classic phrase LOL On topic i can say i like Yokohama Advans A048 over R888's from experiance, the Advans are way more constant grip whise where i feel the r888's act allot diffrent when wearing... that is using the GG compound. If i had to rate the two id say Yokohama Advan 9 and R888's 7 Given it can have allot to do with how the suspension is set up and how much the car weighs etc. Anyhow id go for full slicks if you can, personally i have michelins.. but i can get them cheap i dont have much to compare it with. Edited May 3, 2011 by frank280zx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Do NT01's have the same compound as RA1's? Or is this claim one of those self perpetuating internet 'facts'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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