BRAAP

This post is in response to questions regarding the EDIS-6 firing order. I felt it worthy to post in dedicated EDIS thread in hopes it might help others. Ok, I spent about 15 minutes going through the EDIS stuff on the MS web pages, through deduction, I was able to peice together how set your EDIS 6 firing order. If will run if you have spark and VR sensor is oriented to the 36-1 trigger wheel with the #1 cylinder at TDC firing stroke, (60 degrees advanced from the missing tooth, or looking at the front of the engine, 6 teeth counterclockwise!) If you car does not run, but is getting spark, regardless of what you have done thus far, her is fail safe way verify your coil pack firing order. 1) Ohm out which paired coil of your coil pack goes to which pin. 3 coils, 4 pins. They will all share a common pin, the other 3 pins will be the individual pin for each coil. 2) Z car firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4. As result, with wasted spark ignition, these cylinders are paired up. 1-6, 2-5, 3-4. So the waste spark coil firing order is now 1-6, 2-5, 3-4. 3) EDIS-6 fires these pins in the pic below, in this order pin #10, then pin #12, then Pin #11. So the coil that feeds cylinders 1-6 is wired to pin #10. The coil that feeds cylinders 2-5 is wired to pin #12. The coil that feeds cylinders 3-4 is wired to pin#11. If your car still doesn’t run but you have spark at the plugs, then you have other issues such as improper clocking of the VR sensor to the 36-1 trigger wheel. This is easy to verify. With the plug removed from the SAW signal, puts EDIS in limp home mode, ignition timing becomes locked at 10 degrees before TDC. With a helper cranking the engine with the key, using a timing light on cyl #1, your stock Datsun timing marks on the crank damper should be indicating 10 degrees BTDC, or there about. If not, you need to find out why that is, (most likely VR sensor is not clocked appropriately to the 36-1 trigger wheel.)

Because they are gender confused? It's amazing the lengths kids go to to gain the attention of others, justifying their actions by calling it being independent, being different, being an individual!... They really just need a hug to feel validated in society, or someone to beat the snot out of their parents for neglecting their child's need for a parental role model!

That mod is the route I would take. You might take a look at the pictures again... NOT a Datsun cylinder head, i.e. that book would do him NO good here!

Pistons alone, (compression ratio bump) will not increase your power by a significant amount. That route is quite costly for a very small gain, not enough gain to feel seat of the pants! There are so many more areas to focus on that don't cost as much in time and money that will produce results noticeable. I was able to get my 2750 lb. 280-Z, Naturally aspirated, with dished pistons, ported N-47 head, (all the valve unshrouding dropped the Compression Ratio down even lower to 8.1:1), stock cam, stock EFI, Header, dual exhaust, lightened flywheel, recurved ignition advance, and LOTS of fine tuning, to run 0-60 in 5.7 seconds, and 14.4 @ 97 in the 1/4 mile. The engine was VERY crisp, VERY responsive. Its performance numbers aren't stellar numbers but very respectable numbers for a bone very stock low compression naturally aspirated short block. It is interesting that over the past 8 months or so, there has been a lot of interest in increasing compression ratio as a means to gaining power in the L-6 with not much if any research behind that idea?! (guys reading too many Hot-Rod magazines?) Yes, upping the compression ratio will gain power, but only in very small increments, not anything that is really noticeable, and it should only be done with other mods to capture what a bump in compression ratio offers, (cam, after-market EFI or carbs, free flowing exhaust, etc...) Worst part is, the L-28 is notoriously hypersensitive to detonation and even at 10: 1, it will rattle like a diesel requiring you to retard the ignition advance loosing more power due to the ignition advance retard then you gained via compression ratio. I've personally seen that scenario play out time after time, many have documented the same experience here as well. Also, if you are using the stock EFI, do NOT install an aftermarket cam! The stock EFI does not play well with and aftermarket cam, nor can it be 100% successfully tuned around it. You will need aftermarket EFI or carbs, then a cam is a worthwhile modification. Good luck in your quest for increased performance. LOTS of documented way to gain power here, the search feature is your friend.

SAH-WEET! Relocate those A-pillar gauges to any where but the A-pillar, and its perfect!

I’ve been asked to respond with more info. It’s been well over a year since I played with MS, I don’t recall much off the top of my head and I was using a Chrysler coil pack, not the Ford coil pack. Ok, I spent about 15 minutes going through the EDIS stuff on the MS web pages, through deduction, I was able to pice together how set your EDIS 6 firing order. If will run if you have spark and VR sensor is oriented to the 36-1 trigger wheel withe #1 cylinder at TDC firing stroke, (60 degrees advanced from the missing tooth, or looking at the front of the engine, 6 teeth counterclockwise!) If you car does not run, but is getting spark, regardless of what you have done thus far, her is fail safe way verify your coil pack firing order. 1) Ohm out which paired coil of your coil pack goes to which pin. 3 coils, 4 pins. They will all share a common pin, the other 3 pins will be the individual pin for each coil. 2) Z car firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4. As result, with wasted spark ignition, these cylinders are paired up. 1-6, 2-5, 3-4. So the waste spark coil firing order is now 1-6, 2-5, 3-4. 3) EDIS-6 fires these pins in the pic below, in this order pin #10, then pin #12, then Pin #11. So the coil that feeds cylinders 1-6 is wired to pin #10. The coil that feeds cylinders 2-5 is wired to pin #12. The coil that feeds cylinders 3-4 is wired to pin#11. If your car still doesn’t run but you have spark at the plugs, then you have other issues such as improper clocking of the VR sensor to the 36-1 trigger wheel. This is easy to verify. With the plug removed from the SAW signal, puts EDIS in limp home mode, ignition timing becomes locked at 10 degrees before TDC. With a helper cranking the engine with the key, using a timing light on cyl #1, your stock Datsun timing marks on the crank damper should be indicating 10 degrees BTDC, or there about. If not, you need to find out why that is, (most likely VR sensor is not clocked appropriately to the 36-1 trigger wheel.)

If is he using the stock EFI, a cam is the wrong advice to be giving! Been covered many times on the forum about how the stock EFI does not play well with aftermarket cams! Aftermarket EFI or carbs, then yes, a cam can improve performance. Yes, you can use the aftermarket springs on a stock cam. 3 issues. 1) You’ll take a slight hit in power overcoming the extra spring pressure. 2) Stiffer springs expedite valve train wear. For stock cam on and engine that might see 50,000 miles before the next rebuild, it’ll be fine. 3) Those spring should come with their matching retainers have deep pockets for taller lash pads, (typical of aftermarket cams). The stock lash pads will ride low in those pockets and the tip of the rocker could contact the edges of that retainer pocket, not good! Hope that helps, Paul

Sorry fellas, that head in the picture was built by me for another HBZ member a few years back, details of the head are in this thread; http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=108398 It’s an N-42 head, customer had the chambers welded up prior to sending it to me. MONZTERS monster is way nicer with angle plugs, etc. Twin plugs.. Hmm interesting. Being a non cross flow head, there really isn't any room to locate spark bolt on the other side of the valves to help expedite flame front travel to all regions of the chamber, (intake and exhaust ports are occupying the real-estate the plug would need to be.) MAG58 is on track with centrally located spark bolt in the chamber... Mercedes twin cam head on the L-28 block.

Just downloaded i-Gun (44-in-1). It is just as cool as it looks!

Welcome Paulmer. That person that linked this thread on the GT40 forum was me. The BMW V-8 would be a wonderful platform for a single plane crank project. Applying a similar approach to the BMW V-8 as I outlined in the first few pages of this thread, that would be a sweetheart V-8. Similar Ferrari exhaust note, multi valve OHC design... Paul Ruschman Rusch Motorsports

Not much to update. Just stabbing, restabbing, and stabbing the power train in and out of the car, looking for that elusive sweet spot mounting location. After some component modification and then finessing the power-train in a few locations in the car, I did find a spot I like with few compromises. Keeps the crank C/L “angle” (up and down) in line with the OE BMW, decent “compromise” in clearance around the typical tight areas. Gahts a bits mah hed itch-en bed-fah I’s commits to dis spot…

Preach it brother!

...And keep us posted on your progress...

Correct! I would make an effort to keep them as equal length as possible so that when the sound pulses do merge, (traveling at the speed of sound +/-due to environmental conditions, in the exhaust), they are merging the same time intervals between each pulse, giving it the clean crisp note, no sound pulses leading or lagging the others. Any leasing or lagging pulses will create resonance which will start to remove the crispness in the exhaust note. In my phone conversation with David Vizard, he talked about such a V-8 exhaust system that he ran on the dyno that ended up in a friends boat! All 8 primaries collected at the same time in one location, (was a big block Chevy, not that it matters), he words were, "It sounded like high strung Honda Accord going across the water! Didn't sound like any other boat on the water!" He did go one to say that the V-8 did not like the single merge and his dyno testing of such and arrangement showed huge losses in mid range torque. He didn't go into any detail as to why, though I am very curious as I would suspect it shouldn't have too much of an impact, but he said it did. With a Turbo, the loss of mid range torque may be different do to the back pressure, i.e. may not have as much of an impact. Supercharger? I think it would suffer the same power issue as the N/A variant due to the exhaust being the same in design, but if the exhaust note is the primary goal, a hit in mid range torque, (to be replaced by the blower), might be a compromise worth making.

These Dyno charts came from this book; Courtesy SA design There are even more Carb dyno sheets comparing different cylinder heads, cams, etc. Personally, I don’t put much stock in the actual numbers, just the shape of the power curve and when back to back such these are, the trends of what the changes produce are good “indicators”! On to the charts… FAST LSX EFI intake vs GMPP single plane and Holley 850 Engine; 408 stroker, (6.0L truck block), no specs on the cam sorry. Courtesy SA design Edelbrock Performer RPM, (dual plane) vs GMPP single plane. Engine; LS1 crate engine. Lunati VooDoo 212/218 @ .050” .531” lift, 113 LSA Hooker Long tube headers. Barry Grant 750 Mighty Demon Carb Courtesy SA design LS2 intake vs Edelbrock Performer RPM, (dual plane) and Edelbrock Victor Jr. (single plane) Engine; LS1 crate engine Lunati VooDoo 212/218 @ .050” .531” lift, 113 LSA Hooker Long tube headers. Barry Grant 750 Mighty Demon Carb Courtesy SA design LS2 intake vs Pantera EFI ITB’s Engine; LS2 crate engine. Crane Z series cam, (216/224 @ .050”) Hooker long tube headers. Courtesy SA design

Gimmee a sec and I'll post you some dyno charts... . The Carbed LSx runs right with the EFI versions and even better in some instances... And it's drop dead sexy with a single 4bbl sitting on top! Be right back...

510 goon... VG30E, SR20DE/T or KA24DE/T would be nice. WRX goon is also quite nice. Both offer more storage room vs the ti The Honduh? Wear a disguise so none of your RWD car buddies recognize you in it... other wise a great DD.

To me, the ti looks goofy, "cute", like other Japanese/Korean hatch backs! Like it got smashed in the back by a big truck! Many BMW purists scoff at it saying that it's point and purpose is not inline with typical BMW standards! From a performance standpoint, as a project to Hybrid or track, it is a little bit lighter than the standard E36, but has the Semi trailing arm rear! For a daily commuter, I'd consider it among other cars of similar size/function, deciding factor being if I wanted RWD or FWD for that application...

Touche..

Aux, you just are special...

I sympathize with the info overload from this thread so I quickly ran through and found the posts that stood out covering the twisted cranks stuff… 1) Having a dual plane crank twisted into a single plane, I am pretty sure is not a reality. However, catching a "twist forged" V-8 crankshaft prior to the twisting phase, “is” a 180 degree crank. I am not a fan of the crank pin layout that would yield, though some have used that crank pin layout. From what I know about the balancing, harmonics, vibrations, etc, I personally would not use that configuration. I’m sure it would be cheaper if you could get it though. The following posts cover the twist/non twist forgings and that crank pin layout. Post #11 and #17, 1st page, Post #79, 4th page, Posts #82 through #98 on page 5. 2) For the traditional Chevy, Ford, Mopar, etc Small Blocks, solid billets can be had allowing for any firing order your cranks shaft desires. As for the LSx? Dunno. I have not researched it yet to know for sure, but from what I have seen thus far, off the shelf solid billet blanks is not looking promising. That’s not say they don’t exist or can’t be manufactured, it might just cost more. Hope that helps, Paul