disepyon

You not crazy at all, just a normal day/thing in the fabrication world. Nice thing is when you can do it your self, you can justify why somebody would do what you want. Hehe, like your Acronym for "CAD", I'm a huge "CAD" user.

hehe, been working on it off and on lately, kind of got distracted and busy with work and other things. Sorry if I been neglecting my thread. I will post an update either this weekend or next, most likely next. Stay Tuned till then!

Looking awesome!

Looking good as always. You must feel pretty excited nearing completion of the rear end. I know I would be after all that hard work.

Well the Weld Thru Primer is only applied to the surfaces that are pinched. Only used on the inside surface of the tabs/lips of a panel that lap another panel. I dont spray the whole inside of a panel with it, just on the inside edges where you would be spot welding/plug welding. Now as far as going back and protecting the surface of metal in between right at the joints after being sprayed with weldable primer and welded together, you can buy products like sprayable wax based film such as international epoxies and sealers sell called Inter-guard honey coating that will seep in the cracks and seams. http://www.internationalepoxies.com/viewCategory.php?c=314 Then go back over the seams with a seam sealer like the factory cars have to cover the seams so water wont get in between the joins of the sheet metal. This is something I myself is still learning as far as whats the best product to buy that can be sprayed in between the joints that will permanently coat the inside surface tabs/lips of the sheet metal. As far as coating the inside of a panel or frame that is already assembled, I dont know what product to use to clean the inside and get it prepped to be coated with a 360 degree type spray tube nozzle. That is the difficult part I think is getting the inside surface prepped to be coated when everything is assembled. Coating the inside would be the easy part. JalopyJournal.com is a great forum with tremendous amount of talent and knowledge of professionals who restore cars. That might be a good forum to look at and I believe they have a thread on this very subject.

RebekahsZ: Thanks for sharing your input on the rear sway bar. I know you have quite the track time with your Z based on all threads Ive read with you appearing in them, so that means a lot to me when you give advice like that. I'll probably end up driving my Z with it on and off to experience for myself, but that is so far from now. As far as getting the inside of all these parts coated and protected, I will use POR15 to coat the areas that will not be near any welding zones and for the areas that get welded, I will use Bloxide Aluminized Rust Preventive Coating/Weldable Primer, I Chose that specific weld primer cause ive heard good things about it. Can be purchased from EastWood. So far I havent had any issues yet with that primer, seems to be pretty durable. In fact when I was preping my driver side rocker panels, there was some of that primer left on the panels in a few areas when I prepped those panels with POR15 etching solution. The primer didnt even budge, still holding up in those areas today and hasnt shown any rust. I think the only real way to coat everything after being welded that would get in between every nook and cranny would be like how some car manufactures do it (that ive seen), literally dip the chassis in a primer paint bath. My only concern is after the panels have been welded together, will he welds themselves start to rust over time in the in between areas you are not able to re-coat... I saw your thread about that Z you purchased and that sucks to hear that. As far as words of wisdom or things to say that would motivate you to get back on track on why you purchased the car in the first place and what your plans were with it, I couldnt say it any better than these: Though this is geared towards bodybuilding/working out, CT Fletcher says some extremely motivating things not related to working out. When I listened to this, I viewed as everything you do in life. "If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them" - Bruce Lee "When a Man starts to question the limits of his endurance, defeat prepares to pounce!" - Heat Guy J " A man shouldn't back away from the fear that lies in front of him." - Heat Guy J "The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney "I'd rather attempt to do something great and fail than to attempt to do nothing and succeed." - Robert H. Schuller (I think of this as, the man who faces the challenge and puts in the hard work even if the outcome isnt that great gets respect than the man who takes the easy way out) "The harder you work the harder it is to surrender." - Vince Lombardi (I think of this as, the more you get involved, the more progress you make, the more work you put in, the more you learn on your path, the harder it is to just give up and stop, because of this, I am actually extremely motivated to keep at it with my Z) I can go on and on with these quotes. In all honesty, I myself have tremendous respect for those who do the work themselves and if you run into an unexpected challenge, facing your challenge no matter the out come, succeed or fail, will always be given the respect in my book, regardless if failing, just knowing the effort in trying is great because a lot is to be learned from it, so either way you still get something out of it. If I were in your situation and money wasnt an object, my biggest hurdle would be where to start and how to go about it. Unfortunately because I had never experienced fixing a bent/warped frame, and going about how to replace it, I cant help you there, wish I could. I would maybe start with getting the car up on a straight dolly/frame, then remove the messed up framing and start measuring the body against the factory specs (if there are any) to see if the body itself isnt warped due to the frame being warped. If the body is straight, I would go about remaking the framing or buy the frame rails and put them in. If the body isnt straight, then I would research like crazy on how to go about fixing the body, If the methods are out of your reach, then I would just ditch the body... But because you put in some effort on going about fixing it, your still successful because now you know that car is unfixable, not only that but im sure you would had learned a lot that may help you in the future. This is my inspiration, one day I want to be good enough to make stuff like these: Those cars were hand made back in the day, no pressed molds to make the body. If someone else can do it, so can I, well to a certain extent, hehe. As far as my update, completed the rear section on the floor frames, no pics of it installed though. This is pretty much it for me, as far as replacing the framing of this car, minus the rear which I dont need to since its in good shape. Now begins the prep work in getting these permanently welded in. Edit: Cant seem to figure out how to embed a YouTube video without having to go to the Youtube Site. Edit 2: sweet figured it out.

Nah not at all John, your ok. No offense taken. I know you were being humorous. I actually had no idea about a sway bar that was located in the position you mentioned on stock 240z's. Because of that I hit the search engines like crazy, and actually learned. Yeah it seems like the U.S.A gets all the uncool versions of imported cars hehe. Keep letting me know if you see something i should be doing differently, im all for opinions and criticism and ideas. After all thats how people learn and better themselves. -Brent

Good question. My Z never came with a factory rear sway bar, so the mounting points that would be behind the seats underneath the car or so were never there. You are correct that I would have to use the AZC type sway bar mounting, in which I already aquired the parts for.

Thanks for the kind words Ryan Merrill. Dont think ill be selling this car, at least for awhile anyways, hehe So making the rear part of the floor frame to tie in with the rear frame, for some reason gave me a hard time. Just about gave up for tonight until i went back to some basic techniques, using string/tape to get the basic shape/outline, man did that help!! Previous failures...You would think 3rd time is the charm but not for me, haha Fourth try, Finally got it they way I wanted. The rear frame in this area is deceiving and if your not paying close enough attention like me, then it wont come out right. The outside (outer driver side) face of the rear floor frame has to be lowered about half an inch or so in order for everything to align right after bending and to keep it leveled looking parallel with the ground (if you want to think of it that way). Reason is that the inside (trans tunnel side) face of the rear floor frame has a longer length due to how the rear frame in this area is shaped. Just glad its over with. Was gonna have it wrap completely all around the rear frame but decided to dumb it down and keep it simple. Now I need to make the actual part with all the lips/tabs, the template is made from 20-21g CRS. Will do this tomorrow. Edit: Figure id post this link up, Old thread of a guy remaking the frames of the Datsun Z exactly like stock. I used it a lot for referencing things. http://www.viczcar.com/forum/topic/9634-240z-260z-replacement-engine-bay-floor-rails-now-available-sa/

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-4939-gm-integrated-fuel-filter-regulator-for-c5c6-corvette-return-style-system.aspx the c5/c6 had a filter that regulated the fuel as well, two in one kind of deal. Edit: my bad, you probably already know about this filter/regulator. Yes the camaro regulator is in the stock camaro tank.

Haha, thanks guys. I might consider making the floor frames in the future if there is any interest since they are relatively easy to make. Though the ones I made for my car wouldnt work for stock because my front frame rails are "wider/taller" than the stock front frame rails, so the dimensions of these floor rails wouldnt work for the stock front rails. My floor rails would be able to fit over the stock rails since mine are 3 quarters of an inch tall and 2 and half inches wide, except the area where it fits over the front frame rail (close to stock dimensions). So those who are lazy to remove the original jacked up floor rails would be able to slip these on. Id have to disagree with you Sirpent, I still think your support brackets are much cooler looking than how I tied mine in with the floor rails. The driver side floor rail made. This side went a heck of a lot smoother since I knew what to do. Guess ill be putting these for sell on craigslist as well the floor pans, since ill be making my own. If there is one thing I regret buying for my project right now, it would be these items. Still need to make the rear sections of the floor rails...

thanks guys! Managed to get the passenger side Floor frame made, fabricated out of 16g CRS. Decided instead of having it like the original floor frame at the area where it connects to the front frame rail on the engine bay side, I went ahead and had it wrap up and over the front frame rail. Not sure if it helps strengthen anything or not, but did it anyways. Kind of got the idea from Sirpent when he added that cool looking supporting plate in that area. Unlike mine which probably isnt heavy enough duty, his looks like it will hold up against Superman. Comparison picture against the stock frames. What it will look like on the car. As you can see from this pic, the floor is pretty jacked up. Guess previous owners thought the floor would make a great jacking point or jack stand location. Next will be the driver side and then need to make the rear part to connect the floor frame to the rear framing.

Looking good and sounds great too. Must feel awesome with where your at, progress wise. One day I hope to get me car running...

Never thought about having to take a starter out once the engine and headers where in the car considering how narrow the engine bay is with these cars. Got me thinking now, a mini starter would be nice. I to am curious as well. Man you are super detailed, your like my brother, very detailed oriented when it comes to refreshing all the small and not so noticeable parts. Keep it up!! and be sure to get a video of this beast running, want to hear it.

Hehe I know how you feel when you think this part shouldn't take long to fabricate, but ends up taking most of the day. I feel like that all the time. Your diff mounting is looking fantastic, keep it up man. Just a side note, I took one of your ideas and somewhat incorporated it into what I am making. Not an exact copy of what you did. Told myself why in the heck am I redoing it stock, and then I thought about what you did to beef up the area and said I can do what he did but a little differently. Just wait and see..

Just like the Driver side, I welded in new metal in the lower fender well, though I do not have pictures of it completed, thought I had some but guess not. Made the lower radiator support/front cross frame to tie both rails together. Comparison pictures included against the stock support. This will be permanently welding in, only the upper support I will make it to be removable.

Nice comeback with the Land Rover mounts! Wonder if the rubber bushings will last for a little while, thinking it should since its made for a land rover.

Thanks for the motivating words! Been pretty down and not in the mood lately considering I am out of work right now (been out off and on for awhile) and thinking that I may be out of work for awhile. I worked as a petroleum Landman and the majority of Landmen are contractors (field landman). Due to the oil business being at its all time low, there isnt much work for a person with not much years experience as a landman such as myself. Though I know how to do the job fairly well and not to sound cocky, but know I am able to do the job better than those Landmen with years of experience on top of me who suck at it pisses me off that Brokers are hiring them only because of the years they have in the business even though their job performance suck. Whatever, have fun over paying them and getting shitty work turned into you. Also sucks because it isnt stable and reliable what so ever, a broker can just ditch you in a New York second, and from my experience there are a lot of shady ass Brokers that or just terrible people in managing roles running the company. Just recently one broker I did some work for straight up screwed me out of work. Had me come in to an office meeting to discuss work and run full title and get some accounts set up for me. Well I didnt here back from them throughout the day so I finally emailed them asking when will I get my first assignment/Section to run full title on, turns out they had work just not for me.... yeah I know right!! Bastards!!! Thinking about changing my job outlook to coding/computer programming/software developer. I always liked computers and figured why not get into something that helps create the programs. Been reading a lot about it and it seems like there are people who hate coding and those who dont mind it, just personal preference I guess. Not only that it seems like there are a lot of programmers getting jobs without a computer science degree, my degree is in biology(B.S., the bull shit degree). Seems like quite a bit of employers just want to know what you know, able to actually program and able to expand your knowledge. Reason I got a Bio degree was because the health field was something that interest me. Sad truth is, I absolutely hate school, hate being in class listening to a professor talk/read their power point for an hour or two, hate being forced to learn something that real life work will never see and the money for school is just ridiculous now days. Anyways in the meantime plan A while I am out of work will be to learn some programming in place of work time. Been working on the Z off and on lately. So far only got the passenger side front frame made. Both rails for the most part are completed, just need to drill holes and weld nuts on the back side for tow hooks. Also added in plates for the tow hooks and completed the front part of the reinforcements. Decided to have the tow hooks come straight out from the end of the frame rail. Cut out some rust on the passenger side fender well. For the battery tray area of the fender well, I decided not to waste time and just replace the rust only in the area where the holes are seen. The rest of the rusted metal surprisingly still alright considering how pitted it is. Will just put some silver (contains metal filler) POR15 on it and call it a day. Also received my new Baileigh Magnetic Sheet Metal box and pan brake, my new favorite tool!! Though one thing that pissed me off was that they didnt supply you with a 220v plug. I spend all this money for this thing and not plug... I understand every ones outlet may differ, but could just put an option when ordering on which kind of plug you need.

Been reading a bunch of his posts recently and learned a lot. Just cant believe I am this late in reading this. RIP John C!!

Any updates? Really looking forward on how this turns out assuming you stay motivated and complete it.

Good post 240zdan, I agree that the hoop needs to fit much tighter. If your not going to replace it and do proper, then maybe at least add gussets. Really the people to talk to are those who build these for a living for pro racers or heck even call up scca or email them about it and read the rules about cages if you plan to compete in events. Even if you are not competing would be nice to still have your cage done properly. I have seen the rear bars of the cage mounted either way or having both mounted, guess just depends on the type of car the cage is being made for. Again best thing to do is talk to an expert/professional, not a diy garage guy who welded in a few cages before and assumed it was correct because the cars they welded for never got into a wreck yet. Also your jack test to see if your car was stiffer after wleding in your hoop and rear bars shouldnt be taken seriously in confirming that it made your car stiffer in a good way. I dont know much science but even i know professionals dont base their results by saying because i jacked the car and both side lifted at the same time, the cage is proper and the car is in proper balance in being stiff through out and any force applied to the chassis should be equal through out or whatever, starting to talk outside my knowledge, hehe. I just hate to see an awesome car like your z and all the good work you put into it to have to settle for a poorly made cage. None the less keep up the good work.

Looking good. You going with a/c on this or leaving it out? I havent really looked into it for mine, just know the stock a/c location on the ls wont fit with this car, at least for me. One thing about these z's, so much room front to back in the engine bay, but to narrow side to side. Hehe nvm, just read your post above...

Been pretty lazy about working on my car. Some more progress. Man I need to get off my ass and get back at it or this thing will never get finished... Worked on the passenger side frame. Decided not to waste to much time taking it out, so i just drilled the holes in places where i cared about the metal and used the plasma to cut the rest out. Removed it all in one piece with the floor frame. New frame partially made. Need to work on the firewall side of it, does not quite set right against the wall, mostly my fault since I was in a rush making it. Now I have to suffer by spending more time making it fit right, should had spent the time in prep work. Also took the majority of those damn bendable anchors out on both the passenger and driver side fender wells. As you can see on the driver side tower, one of them completely rusted through both layers of the metal. Was hoping that the metal in the battery area would be good enough to just paint some silver POR-15 (silver version contains metal filler for badly rusted areas) paint on, but doesnt seem like it. There is one hole I see so far, with out really investigating this area yet. The front part of the fender well area was badly crushed/dented, not really sure why this is, could be some idiot in the past jacked in this area. Spent a little time straightening it out.

I bought the same floor pans and I too figured out that they dont fit well. I am still debating on making my own or spending the time to make them fit. Please update on this, I would like to see how your progress and feed back. Killer work by the way, Im impressed seeing that you dont have any specialty tools to make the things your making.

For mig welding sheet metal, I am using .025 diameter wire ER70S-6, 75/25 mixture. I purchase most of my materials from weldingsupply.com, they have good prices and sales going on all the time. I havent really tried actually welding a small beaded section on sheet metal, just been using it for spot welding. Im not experienced enough to tell you what is needed to achieve a flat bead, I would have to go practice and play around with the settings. Only things I can really think of is trying various size diameter wires, using various settings and try different torch angles or push weld rather than pulling. Not sure if you heard of Jody Collier, but his knows is shit when it comes to welding. A lot of companies send him stuff to test out. This is his site, http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/ I see what your trying to say with the tig vs mig welds. A weld in general no matter what is being used will be stronger than the actual metal being welded to, if welded correctly. For the most part when a weld cracks, its usually on the edge of the weld or Toe/Foot of the weld I think is the correct term, at least most of what ive seen. Back in my high school days, In my senior year, I attended a tech school for welding during the entire school year (my school offered it for free) and certified in SMAW (stick Welding). Part of my certification was to weld, I cant remember the thickness of the plates/coupons, but they were pretty freaking thick that required multiple passes. The coupons had to be beveled to ensure penetration on the root pass. Anyways after all welded up, I had to cut the plate in multiple pieces, grind it smooth and take it to the bender which bent the coupons right at the weld 180 degrees and if done correctly nothing will break and crack. I really dont know why the tig weld is more "flexible" to work with than Mig and Stick welds, Could be the Filler rods used being the type of ingredients that are in tig rods that allows the tig welds to be easier to work with, I would have to read up on it. I like tig too because if you need too, you can just use the torch to smooth/spread out the weld. A lot of professionals who do body work/restorations that I have seen use mig welding, but then again some prefer Tig, I think its just preference, results can be achieved using either or. Practice Makes Perfect!