Modern Motorsports Ltd

Mike, with your rear wheels on, how close do they come to the strut tube? ie. can your adjusting nut drop past/beside your tire and clear easily?

Well Mike, via your personal email etc it doesn't sound like you have the resources to do Terry's mod in your timeframe so perhaps the longer springs are your only solution right now (short of convincing those that told you to section/section to rescusitate the car ). My main concern is you won't have enough extension in your struts to accomodate the longer springs as your lower point/gland nut is fixed and you require some 3" or more extension for a reasonably static ride height let alone added travel for droop during driving (my guess at what you need). You should NOT need wheel spacers to push your wheels out as your moving your top point of your spring upward, shouldn't have to move it downward very much unless unless your spring length/ride height requires the patched up geometry resulting from the oversectioning. Your struts have ~7" maximum extension. I think you've got a chance with longer springs. From your pics you posted on page 1, I'm guessing your strut compressed to about 3" of max compression. With ~ 7" travel then you may have up to 4" more of extension. Using 3" of this to raise your car and leaving the additional 1" for a safety 'droop'margin may be allowable. I'd go with 12" springs and then you can lower your adjustable perch if required. FIRST I'd have someone (I think we're all feeling sympathetic to your dad!) measure what would be a workable ride height for your car. We'll assume you require 1.5" MINIMUM air gap between top of tire and your fenderwell. (for Mike specifically/not to be typically applied to normal setups!!) So have your dad measure distance from edge of tire/top to centre of your rear stub axle, let's assume this is 13". Add 1.5" to this 13" for 14.5". Now with the car jacked up/blocked up in the air, raise a rear stub axle such that it measures 14.5" from bottom of fenderwell lip to the centre of the stub axle. This is your new desired 'minimum' ride height. block the rear stub axle in this same height so it's not moving. Now measure the extension present in the strut, this will be the shiny piston extending out of your strut tube......you want to know how much is exposed out of the strut tube, measure from top of gland nut to the underside of your TOP aluminum hat I supplied you. If this measurement is about 5.5 to 6" then it appears you may have enough strut extension to use longer springs to get out of this pinch. If this measurement is 7" or if the rear stub axle can't be lowered enough to achieve this then you're in trouble. Assuming you're borderline with enough extension I'd also reccomend shaving your bump stops shorter as you truly need all extension you can. If/when whomever is swapping your springs, if they can shave your bumpstops to 1/2" or 3/4" it'll gain you some slight extra tolerance. Find out what extension the strut is at at your desired 'temporary' ride height. If it's 7" or greater then springs won't work and allow you any susepension droop for safe travel. And if you can find a set of OEM unmolested rear strut tubes you might want to snap them up.....you may be needing them. Hopefully what I wrote is somewhat clear and not just babbles as this is a non-standard approach and I'm seeing what's permissible for your father. Do you have any friends back home that can help your dad out? I'm quite sympathetic to anyone recovering from surgeries etc and car mod's have never been in a recover program I've been through. If enough extension is measured I'll get a set of 12" springs out your way pronto, and if extension & compression is very tight we can bump up the spring rate to minimize travel required to get you thru this jam. A bit of dough but sounds like easiest solution by far. A 300lb/rate would reduce your travel notably (ask Pete et al ) Cheers,

Close but not quite. Coilover springs are noted as 2.5" or 2.25 ID (not OD). 2.5's are common for Z cars as our strut OD's are ~2.0 and 2.2 so combine a threaded sleeve thickness and one must use 2.5" ID springs. I don't have a spring OD handy or I'd toss that info into the mix. You can gain as much clearance as the full projection of your OEM spring. For those requiring max clearance we can (assuming it matches other functional requirement/owner desires) set the coilovers such that they're fully above the wheel/rim. This allows your rim/tire to come right up to your strut tube within 1/8" of an inch or so (tire flexes at the bottom, NOT at the top, proven this on my own ride).

Juan, I've been very hands off with your threads, perhaps too much so as I've received many direct emails I've responded to relaying technical/functional differences etc b/t packages. I've got some serious points I've been holding back but feel I should ethically toss out here for the benefit of all. You note above to just look for a caliper in those dimensions?? I find this very alarming as the sum of guidance in completing a critical system such as our brakes. Who's engineering caliper suggestions and if no one, I assume you're comfortable with the capability of those using your product to engineer their own appropriate bias/caliper/piston sizing/pad type balancing etc? I searched your web and did not find any guidelines on this in any way, perhaps I missed it? Perhaps it's quite different in the US but I doubt it, here in Canada I'd be under scrutiny with my professional assocations VERY quickly if I were to be so 'assuming' in initiating a critical function package for owners in such a manner without telling them how to properly select the key components, calipers and rotors. Disclaimers have their function but they're only respected to a reasonable assumption in court of law. They're not respected as an extremely general cover all in any way shape or form regardless of their verbage. I noted your webshop uses the $42 10 lb rotors along with $100 calipers as examples one could purchase for such a package. I'm interested (and perhaps this has been discussed) in who's successfully used these lightweight (perhaps too light) rotors and under what conditions? Personally I've not heard positive feedback on these lines. Similarly as for those calipers as I have vendors that won't even sell those as they had return issues on the lower end wilwoods let alone the flex many have measured under load. Some higher end wilwoods are more suitable products but I don't believe they're the ones commonly purchased. Aftermarket or OEM, you still generally get what you pay for. Don't get me wrong, from the limited pics of your machinig etc the parts look great and the open attitude is great for enthusiasts as well. But please do understand the parts you couple them with and engineer some safe recommendations. It just alarms me 'DIY' brakes without informed guidelines. It's not a simple task to do this very well, my own spreadsheet for a basic system balance is very involved. MC bores/calipers bores/radial locations/rotor thickness/mass/pad size/swept area/line pressure/pedal configuration etc.... I'm not speaking out as a potential competitor, I've not yet lost any business via an informed customer that I'm aware of. And if I do no big deal, I feel more involved helps to broaden the enthusiasts awareness of Z enjoyment and potential. I'm speaking up as an engineering professional that takes safety very seriously, has enjoyed the Z community for a long time and want to see Z owners safely enjoy their rides. This is a critical function/system for which I've taken serious efforts to understand and comprehend the overall factors. With the effort I've put into any of my packages, I'm confident if something is not working for them it's not due to any aspect of my package so we can look outside at other factors. IMO vendors should support their complete product lineup with strong customer support to understand the customers needs/requirements and that dictates the direction to which a plan is formed. Perhaps I expect too much, but I see too many dissapointed with how their rides evolve with mismatched parts and I'd rather see them start with proper packages and avoid the frustration that I've seen many experience. Not intended to target your parts, just wanting it to be known that it's VERY easy to have a mismatched brake setup and one vocal customer or one experiencing an incident can flip things upside down on a vendor very fast. I just hope you take these considerations for your parts/semi packages seriously as well for your own peace of mind and the safety of those you're working with. This was intended to be constructive for all. If I'm way off base please feel free to let me know. I'm interested in all ideers/comments. Cheers,

Quick web reply as a customer just sent me this topic. Mike, I haven't got an email/q on this in any way from you? I appreciate your urgency you've related in this online thread and can relate/it has me reliving some of my own last moment emergencies I've been thru with my car! I feel badly for your dad to be involved with the urgency with his conditions. Anyhow, I don't know how much you ended up sectioning in your rear struts as we didn't discuss that. I do recall a hybridz thread where you'd cut a bit pre-emptively and had strut inserts longer than your struts. I'm v. glad to see you've got that fixed. Regardless of what you've done here we'll get it sorted for you. You do HAVE to allow a path of movement for your wheels and tires! What travel path did you intend them to follow during suspension travel? If ANY of us lowered our car notably (which you did automatically when you sectioned it) AND then placed a wheel/tire combo that's now protruding past your outer fender line then you're most likely going to have an issue. Guys on this forum running 10" rims etc did more work to their ride than just coilovers, clearancing is required. Unless you have a very stiff setup (ie. a race car with slicks and very limited travel) and aren't lowered as much this will occur. Yes one typically sees a gap between the top of their tire and the bottom of their fender on most Z's, but you've sectioned you struts, used 8" springs, but most off all your using 10" wide rims with stock fenders in a 17" OD that have no room for vertical travel with your dropped height. Unless the car is a v. stiff (ie. 400lb/in with slicks/fully reinforced) we need to assume MORE than an inch of susp. compression etc so require wheel travel. What is your overall tire OD? Essentially raising your coilovers at present may only be a temporary solution if in fact you want to be sitting that low. You will require some allowance for wheel travel during suspension function which is not present right now. Their IS some room to raise your rear an additional 3/8" or more from your picture presented. Easiest location to 'shim' this setup to help get you going is at the top of the aluminum hat to stock upper isolator (did you keep the stock upper isolator basically intact??, if the bushing is not their it will drop it further), you can place larger washers, same as I sent you. I wouldn't place more than a half to 3/4" thickness of washers here and they shoujld be of quite similar size to what I originally sent you in case you required a 1/16 to 1/4" adjustment to suit your top OEM isolator. I sense some surprise/nervousness from some who haven't done this before. A few words of caution and in no means directed at Mike. Decide what you objective is overall, then work down and see how the rest of your desired components fit into this objective. Do they match functionality wise and do they geometrically fit up to a make a proper system? One can decide on a desired ride height and thus choose a frame rail clearance to ground for their cars height, pick some repeatable points for these reference measurements. Set your car up on jackstands at this particular height with springs removed and hubs blocked up to appropriate elevation as well. Now you can 'place'/measure for any wheel combo you want and see what clearance you'll have at rest (starting point/checking compression rebound is important but if it's very adequate at rest in the rear particularly, the rest will follow). From centre of hub measure off or make a cardboard template to help you check all clearances. This will also allow you to measure what your strut length is at this time to see if you need to section (vast majority of my coilover customer will all manner of Z rides do not section, rarely required with today's larger OD wheels/tire combos) and what suspension travel this will allow. From that point you can build your struts/coilovers to suit. Back to Mike: your fastest solution to getting on the road (assuming you need to get to Miami and your complete body solution with flares is not to be completed at present) is to fit a simple set of wheels/tires on that clear as it is. Perhaps a cheap used set of OEM early model 300ZX wheels may clear? FWIW, I've gotten caught up in doing various package mods (ie. susp/engine etc) at same time but typically find it best to complete one system at a time. At a minimum your flairs will be required to fit those sweet wheels/tires you have in the rear. What clearance do you have at the rear between your tires/rims and your strut tubes? Is the offset tight to your struts properly to minimize your pushout? Hopefully this reply has been of use to Mike and others. These things can be prevented and I much prefer to be involved in proactive planning than reactive but either way solutions are found. Don't be shy about involving me in any steps you may not be fully confident with. Mike and I discussed to some detail at various points his buildup and the setups I supplied him with are appropriate for his isntall, but their have been large gaps between these discussions where some nix's occurred which we're reacting to. Not picking on you Mike, just don't want others put in fear by efforts and your progession in your buildup. It'll get sorted and many members and perhaps even more importantly, lurkers, have learned many valuable lessons along your buildup from your humble, honest, and open questions/issues you've shared with us all. It's also proven the warmth of hybridz wherein members jump to help out one another. This thread started very early and replies just kept flying in. Good luck and keep us updated, and don't be shy about emailing me:) Most others aren't PS I'm replying via webmail at present so haven't reviewed my correspondence file with Mike to be informed on his overall intent etc. I've setup car with similar rims/struts/coilovers etc previously and one just has to fit it all together as discussed above, we'll get Mike's sorted so he's on the same path.

No worries, just glad you got it sorted. Their are NO dumb questions:) Feel free to question on me on anything. Tim, if you need/want shorter springs and shorter tops let me know and I'll help get you to your desired setup (and perhaps some of the locking lower nuts, stockcar guys often resort to duct taping that type of lower adjustable collar to prevent them from coming loose, I have 30 or 40 I got FREE on the shelf I won't give away in packages as I just don't like that non-dependability). (style I use are a notable extra cost) I should be selling my package for more considering the custom items and combo I use in my coil over setups BUT to date not many are aware of the differences between packages easing their install and final product that I offer including the custom lower supports. Perhaps I under market/promote my own goods, who knows. Anyhow, I'm babbling now and just wanted to say all q's are welcome and good luck with your installs (everyone!) regardless of what products you're using. I'm dreaming of some time to do my own installs on my own ride for some fun upgrades.

Fine idea and a concept I incorporated into my own car. My custom camber/caster 280ZX front plates were machined offcentre to build caster into them. (moved strut top/centrelyine towards firewall) Just machined for approximate max. at tower and still allow camber adjustment. Reduces amount I have to push forward my wheel for increased caster as you note. I've run as much as 10 degrees caster and am back around 5 degrees at present. I'm going to dial it up to about 6.5 sometime here when leisure time allows.

Yes First off, big thanks to Mike for his kind words! Warm fuzzies all around Yes, you'll see some adjustable Z control arms available from MML in the not too distant future. By Xmas is my goal but I'm hopeful they may be available earlier. Last spring I stepped into a time 'vaccuum' of a project (daytime work) and hence MML R&D slowed down and not as many custom setups have come out of MML as I'd have liked. Recently I engaged a Mechanical Engineer and gearhead to aid in bringing this product to market in both a safe and timely manner. I'm confident with his proven design capabilities and familiarity with production that it will be a fine product. I won't rush it to availability, I want them to be of the same quality, value, and ease of use as all other MML offerings. It's the support from existing customers already committed to MML's upcoming suspension pieces, as well as Mike Kelly and many others that makes this happen so these fun items can come to be.

Jim' date=' it's all listed under my webshop noted in my sig file above and below. You can select your coilovers, and preferred struts, and check out easily with the friendly webshop system in place. Any other q's email me directly as I've been unable to frequent the web regularly as my Z/computer time is typically spent directly dealing with customers projects.[/url']

All depends on what you want/will be happy with? I've had most every type of non-coilover spring turned over to me from customers that didn't like them and went to coilovers. MSA, Tokico etc, still in a box somewhere tucked away. Nothing wrong with their springs, I'm sure they suit some folks purposes but they are NOT very stiff to provide nice tight control for those wanting tight handling. Those that say they are have not experienced tighter IMO. They're soft and often too low for their spring rate for safe/adequate strut travel. For coilovers rates have been discussed many times on this forum. For street/some track 150-225 for fronts depending on your other choices (brakes/struts/speeds you'll see/tires etc) and similarly or higher for rears depending on entire setup. Perhaps it's your personal email I have waiting which I'll respond to tonight or tomorrow. If they can't tell you the spring rates then it's likely not purposebuilt enough for yourself. You ask about Illumina's vs. HP's as well. IF you have the $ Illumina's are VERY nice. I know of many various builds that enjoy them: -all stock car with Illumina's, he's comfortable on 1 or 2 around town basically like a stock car......at annual motorsports events he's having a lot more handling fun on 4 or 5 on his struts.....sort'of a bandaid for fun with otherwise stock parts. -performance/street/track cars...1, 2 or 3 for fun street and 3,4 or 5 for much tighter higher speed mountainous trips or road course events etc....very nice options to have -or you're typically sitting somewhat low which is fine but your 400lb brother in law needs a ride to the airport (or a loaded long trip)and you don't want to bottom out your struts.....bump to '5' and this will help greatly:) -non-adjustable HP"s are good, but Illumina's are truly appreciated if it doesn't break your bank FWIW, my strut prices are very competitive especially since I'm no discount warehouse etc. My coilover kits have some custom parts custom made for Z's only for increased strut travel, an easier install and a tidier final product. Good luck and enjoy your Z!

Your tires Jeromio....perhaps some rear alignment issue exaggerated by your tires. A good wet/dry tire you can take to 90% or more of a dry time in street use (just ballpark, I still have TONS of fun in the rains we get)......once I came to BC here I've bucked up for good wet/dry tires and it's a world of difference. My one incident I had was on a temporary poor set during a hub pattern changeover, I will NEVER screw around with cheaper or used tires. Good wet/dry, firehawk SZ50EPs, S03 PP's, MXX3 sports etc. RE730's are 'ok' and cheaper as are many others. I'm sure I've missed a few. I'm a big fan of SZ50EP's. An optimal alignment will help with both dry and wet traction, more caster/nominal camber for easier straight line stability on uneven roads is agreat benefit as steering input's can be smoother as well.

Keith, the Xtreme 13" fronts with rear 11.4" CNC disk setup works fine with OEM Z or 15/16" MC. I'm not right up on boosters though and have long wanted to see a fine summary of the pros/cons, mix'n'match possibilities with MC's/boosters for Z's. I've got customers running the Xtreme's with both OEM and 15/16's.....as well as 4x4 typical vented fronts etc as well.

Ed, I just dropped you an email reply earlier today. Last I understood your car was burned up?? I never heard otherwise after that sad email. I was remiss in a reply and we can carry on via private email. Your custom adaptors built to your spec's will ship within 2-3 days. FWIW, yes I have been working lots but routine items have still being going out freely. R&D custom projects have been slow with the greatly accelerated work schedule but I'll be out from under the gorilla project ($45M power line/9km's in 7.5 mo's so we can avoid an Eastern blackout etc) within a few weeks as we just got into the substation. Tim, that's a change in tone for you. If you're aware of issues you'd like to drop me an email on, I'd greatly appreciate it. We've all had occasional delivery issues and I haven't aired any related to others on this board, yourself not excluded, in keeping with a professional tone. I do what I can to aid customer's buildups and packages but admittedly the last few months that's been less than my usual 'quick' effort. I've taken on zero new R&D assignments of recent as in all honesty I just want to wrap up those remaining to get some more new unique setups in use! I've apologized to customers with delayed custom packages from myself and to date all have been very accepting. It's been tough as I LOVE doing new designs but can't forego the day job which got unusually busy when I got assigned to this fastrack project with an enjoyable yet hectic broadened scope. Be nice to skip the day job and do motorsports 100% but I'd have to step to more than Datsuns to see $'s to pay the real bills which I'm not ready to do at present. Anyhow, I'm babbling now late at night as I wrap up an eng. report for action tomorrow. It was a faithful customer that brought this thread to my attention. A few have been concerned my health may have gone south with skipped or slow uncharacteristic responses; thanks for your concern's but I can very happily say it was 6 yrs clear post cancer BMT this past spring and still clear as a bell:) It's just been good honest work keeping me from my usual dedicated motorsports efforts which will back off shortly here! Keep the shiny side up:) Once again thanks for all your support guys and supporting the liberty of R&D and manufactering I greatly enjoy, aiding Z enjoyment!

Good to hear you got them installed Mike. Were your struts very clean? They are a close fitment as it is a narrow geometry they have to navigate around the rear hub to clear the hub as well as the rotor. If struts are dirty or simply corroded with time they would require wire brushing at minimum. Perhaps their were a few made with a slightly different mold as the portion you ground on the hub assembly is an unmachined outer cast surface that is typically snug on all struts but does clear OK. Either way, glad you persevered and it got worked thru. If you need Tokico's at a future date, feel free to check mine out, perhaps a more pleasant experience than the one you just had.

Michael (and other customers) please email me directly to figure out questions you have. I wouldn't sell it if I couldn't support it so please do email me. The feedback/reviews you read Michael were true and as such it will work out as well for yourself. Don't feel singled out but it's frustrating for me as guys have commonly posted on forums without even emailing me (you did email me today, and I replied same day, but you didn't even tell me what didn't fit, just 'doesn't fit') that something doesn't fit, or isn't correct. 99% it's just a misinterpretation by the customer initially, but no matter the source, it's always been sorted out easily and the un-needed net postings just trigger unease in those jumping in and out of forums and not truly hanging out for the full discussion/flavour. Again, don't take it personally but I just don't understand why customers typically email me and then broadband it to forums. Wait the day or so and it'll be sorted. Are you sure your struts are OEM 70-78 struts, you have the bracket oriented as shown in the two customer installs (linked thru the webshop, package description) ?? Your brackets were not treated any differently than the rest that were CNC done, of which I've verified the accuracy with only great fitment's proved out. They've been installed on many 70-78 rear strut assemblies without a single fitment issue to date. Ensure the strut body surrounding bracket mounting is very clean and then visually check it out to ensure it's unaltered at the intended bolt hole locations just as an oddball check. Is it an identical non-fitment on both sides? Were the struts already stripped of the drum assemblies or are they verified original Z struts? You mention this is one of two major parts bought that doesn't fit. The other major part I'm assuming is not mine as all other parts sent to you have the same untroubled install history as the rear brackets. If you've already resolved the fitment issue of this other 'major part' with the vendor I'd appreciate hearing what that scenario involved. Take care and please, feel free to email and cover off on showstopper questions with myself sales@modern-motorsports.com.

I do have a complete kit easing the effort/homework required and doing away with custom line requirements, been enjoyed by a number to date. Typically can be installed tidily on the firewall by removing existing prop valve and replumbing in adjustable unit with the fittings I supply. More info on the package below: http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=53&PHPSESSID=e520b0d82c9a2230b7e06663ac0601d1

Michael, you got the right stuff You've got mail with your install instructions My apologies for not sending them out as fast as I sent your order. Good luck and and any more q's feel free to email me directly, far easier for to quickly support my products in that manner

Mike, I sent a reply back same day (June 16)....with price and just wanted your OK and they'd head out......I'll send them out tomorrow and we can close later

-Ross maybe you could drop me a line or something? You've got mail

Ed, have you checked your calc's using a URL within my FAQ'S? http://www.modern-motorsports.com/catalog/mm_faq.php http://toy4two.home.mindspring.com/offset.html It depends on your existing wheel width and offset if you plan to maintain the location of the inside of your wheel to strut as you say (ie. you are not maintaining your centreline, you're describing maintaining your wheels innermost location-distance to your strut tube). Work the above URL such that the clearance from stut housing to the inside of the wheel will be THE SAME if that is your goal (perhaps you already have but I'm skeptical as I believe your innermost point will be moving inward).