Derek

Is that built out of GPO3?

Ok well we know it will go to 3.4. Still a lot of questions though. Also the lack of actual pictures of the MRZ 3.4 DOHC makes me wonder. I will say that knowing MRZ's price points even if they offered a head like mine it would be pricey.

Nope. I saw that awhile ago and assumed that they were either developing their own head or had made a deal with OSG to buy complete motors. It also say's Nissan 3400 straight 6. Neither the OSG nor mine is a Nissan product so I'm not sure what is going on. I suppose they could be doing some sort of RB thing. Can you get an RB out to 3.4? I don't think the head will flow enough to feed it though in a NA application.

I am but as soon as I put bungs there I guarantee you someone will want them somewhere else. Also the majority of the builds are running Jenvey stuff and for the most part they come with bungs. And last but not least the casting works for both tilts depending on how I machine it. The bungs would over complicate that.

I think Derek's injectors are at the head I purposely have left that stuff up to others since A: I know very little about making power and B I know even less than that I do know how to make a casting though so that's more important in my mind. I did a search on production vehicles that make over 100 HP per liter NA and it's a pretty impressive list. Rob sent me a link to an article that came out. https://www.thedrive.com/news/41805/nissan-240z-roars-with-honda-style-dohc-head Links to and mentions this build thread which was nice.

Thanks Ben I'm glad some numbers on a 3.2L (3.18) are finally out. 100hp per liter is pretty decent from what I hear. Rob feels like there is still some more to be had via tuning but it's a street car so there is always a balance to strike. I'm just glad that for Zcar Garage it's now an itch they need to scratch.

I own one and the videos even got my blood pumping. That car is really amazing. Hopefully after this round of heads I'll be able to finally finish my 3.1 ish build. I will say that the sound is pretty much the same with mine. It's really great that now there are some real HP numbers on the head. It's an expensive head for sure but getting 350HP at the wheel out of a regular ported head wouldn't be cheap. The best part is that is the SEMA car that HAD the OSG head. Had..... Bwahaha

Looks great. I think you drove mine at Bill's if I remember correctly. That was with Rfactor. It's up in a pallet rack since I seem to have ZERO free time these days. How do you like the VR vs monitor?

Just had a long talk with Rob. He has some valid points but mostly they are just so busy that it kind of has been pushed aside from a social media standpoint. He was hesitant to post numbers because he knows he can get more out of it with a better tune. The owner of the car loves the head and has zero complaints about it. The problem is Rebello is just so busy all the time that they take forever on a regular build. Add the complexity of the KN20 and waiting a year for a motor is a real buzz kill. Other avenues are being explored to speed it up and at the request of Rebello I'm now selling the heads with guides and seats installed. This has been a major time vampire for them and has caused a ton of delays. I built a custom head oven and purchased a nitrogen dewar. Made custom installation drifts for the guides and seats. I've done 2 heads so far and it has gone really well. I'm big on the science and realistically, heat soaking a new head and nitrogen chilling the seats and guides is the way to go. If you are using brute force then you are broaching. I think it's especially critical on a new casting. Now for the good news. Rob is putting the car back on the dyno for a new tune and they will be doing a complete writeup including pictures of the install and will be posting them soon. We can put away the pitchforks now:)

As it stands I have been paid for 10 cylinder heads. The only ones that are actually running and drivable is SN001 which is mine and I have over 7K miles on it, SN005 has over 10 K I think and SN010 which is in a Zcar Garage/Rebello build. Probably not to many miles on it but the word I got on that one was the owner was very happy. That car is a 3.15L I think. They haven't released the Dyno numbers at this point for whatever reason but I was told it was very impressive. Here is a link to an instagram video they posted of it on the dyno and then a short blast on the street. https://www.instagram.com/p/CMKqD5BHwrr/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link Rebello currently has 3 heads they are doing builds with. At the moment I'm in production on 5 more heads and three of those are spoken for. So that will put the sold units up to 13. The lack of available HP data is troublesome but that isn't stopping sales. I think people who have the means to get one of these can see the potential based on published CFM numbers as well as the fact that it's Honda valve train.

It's not a good platform. And it won't matter how many caveats I put out there on how tired the motor is or the lack of compression ratio etc etc the internet truth will be "that Datsunworks head only made XX hp". My butt dyno says it is faster than a SOHC but not by much since the CR is way way low. Probably in the 9:1 range. If I needed the data I would do it in a heart beat but I don't.

Well If I ever get my 3.15L built I'll have some numbers but the the motor that is currently in it there is no reason to dyno it.

When I did the KN20 prototype I used a lot of JB weld on the water outlet without issue. I would have done it after assembly though to give it a little more to hang onto.

Is there a class it could even run in at all? If so how much horse power would it need to put out to be competitive? I'm not into road racing so I have no clue.

I told you guys before don't blame me blame Tony D. I think that has a nice ring to it. Like an orange juice commercial. Not yet. It's a pretty pricy head to blowup.

He sure does. Thanks Duffy. Now I'm trying to figure out if I can make it work on my VVT setup.

No Actually my specialty is pattern making and casting design sprinkled with a little machining and a lot of dreaming. I leave the rest of that stuff to people who are far more knowledgable than me. Yea that combo has more than one person, me included, to rethink their builds. My thinking at this point is basically a Rebello style 3.2 build with offset ground LD crank, rods, and pistons. Bore the block to a safe number based on sonic testing and call it a day. For years people have been saying that the majority of the L6 power comes from the head and this is really proving it to be true. The DOHC configuration moves a ton of air without a ton of lift compared to the stock single cam heads.

Yes. It's a 3.1 ish. The OS was a 3.3. Not sure why Rob hasn't been more vocal about the results but I'm sure he has his reasons. Let's just say the owner is happy with the KN20. Hopefully ZCG will publicly post some numbers soon as they are impressive.

I have no plans but if someone wanted to they can add sensors to the back of the valve cover to monitor the cams. I have a single sensor on the intake for the VVT on my car. It's the guts from the existing tensioner that comes in the KA24 timing chain kit. The spring in most cases provides more tension pressure than the oil pressure against the piston can. Max potential at 70 PSI is like 17 pounds of force. The springs I measured from tensioners come in at between 13-16 ish. The oil is in there for damping and lubrication as much as the pressure. The check valve I'm guessing is there to help with that as well as cold starts and rattling. What Leon said. They are both great shops but like all artisans they have their proclivities. Thanks Leon. The only footage other than my car and 005 is the dyno pull that ZCC did. https://www.instagram.com/p/CMKqD5BHwrr/

Story time. As many of you who have followed along for a while know the timing chain arrangement has been my White Whale since the beginning. I knew I wanted to use the KA24 timing chain setup and for the most part I was able to make that work. The problem was there just wasn’t enough room to fit the pivoting slack side guide and have it pivot at the bottom like it’s supposed to. The compromise was to pivot it at the top, use a custom guide and use the bottom tensioner in the stock L6 position. This worked but the custom guide had to be a little thin in one area to clear the lower timing cover. Now here comes a lesson for all you aspiring engineers out there and how solutions to complex problems can be incredibly simple. I was speaking to Brian at Rebello after he finished the KN20 build they did for Z Car Garage. This was the first build they did for a sub 3.2L and they decided to use my system as opposed to the more complex system they designed for for the 3.5 motors. We were discussing the lack of room on the slack side for the top pivoting guide and he mentioned that the KA24 heads have the idler gear pushed towards the tension side more than I had mine. I agreed this was worth looking into and set about manipulating the 3D model to see what I could make happen. I found I could pick up about 19mm by shoving the idler gear over. On the face of it a very simple solution to increasing the thickness of the pivoting guide. Problem solved. But wait it get’s better. As I was sitting at my work station shoving various 3D components around to see what was workable I realized a fair amount of room opened up on the top and there may be room to squeeze a tensioner up there and have the bottom pivot guide I always wanted. I contacted Tioga who is my go to person for all things OEM and he got me info on the various available external tensioners that could possibly work. The problem was they were all too big to fit. Then the epiphany. Why not design my own tensioner that will fit inside the existing available envelope. Booooooommmm. The hardest part was that I absolutely wanted it to retrofit to the existing heads I already had out there. It was apparent that this would work and fortunately I had a head still here so I set about with my tried and true mockup process. A little CAD/CAM add a little old school analog, bring the analog back to digital, rinse and repeat. I ended up with this mockup. The letter T represents where the tensioner piston is. And here is the final product. The adjustable cam sprockets are from Tomei FYI and are really well made. The slack side guide is much more robust and the front lower timing cover fits without any modifications. The stock L6 tension side guide fits with some minor slotting and cutting. The chain angles and flow look great so I’m super happy with the outcome. The tensioner is also the mount for the upper tensioner. The slack side tensioner uses the piston, spring, and check valve from a KA24 tensioner. The body is 6061 aluminum with a 4130 DOM (drawn over mandrel) honed sleeve inserted as the cylinder. The front of the head has scuppers to drain the oil from the valley and the new tension block blocked the right one. I had to machine a drain into it and decided to include a dribble hole to help oil the lower chain. Probably useless and the KA24 upper tensioner pukes so much oil that I doubt the lower chain will ever run dry but I felt like putting it in. It feels really good finally making this work and short of any minor changes this is going to be the go to chain system for anyone running a single row lower chain. PS. This is one of the original mockup picture of the timing chains and no one mentioned "You know the KA24 idler is pushed over towards the tension side more" So ultimately I'm blaming you guys for missing that.

My understanding of the polygon effect was it induced instability (whip) as it exited the sprocket. The smaller the sprocket the more instability. So you have a whip in the chain at the bottom coming up all the time. Couple that with the dynamics induced during overrun conditions and you can see controlling a timing chain can be tough. Now change the dynamics again with different lifts and lobe offsets and chain wear and breakage comes into play. The tension system is as much a dampening system as it is anything else. I'm sounding doom and gloom but I think when people make changes to the timing chain system they should be aware of what they are dealing with. There are ton's of people running those twin idlers without a single issue so there's that. Plus it's not like anyone is going to be putting 100K miles on these cars anymore.

During the design phase on the KN20 I did a lot of research into timing chain designs. I did some calculating on what kind of pressures the tensioners were delivering. In a perfect world a .567' (14.5mm) diameter rodless hydraulic cylinder will deliver just over 17 pounds of force at 70 psi. I measured a few springs from tensioners and they were all in the 14-15 pound range in their operating position. So there really isn't a lot of force provided. Also I think tensioners for all practical purposes are spring driven and oil oil dampened since anything under 70 psi the spring is delivering more force than the oil pressure. Chain sprockets are a polygon and suffer from what's called polygon effect. When the chain exits a sprocket it induces whip. The smaller the sprocket diameter the bigger the effect. I think that is why bottom pivoting slack side guides became the norm. Much more surface area to control the polygon effect as well as a faster response time when the engine goes into overrun since that happens at the top of the guide where the tensioner is.

Well a capable shop could have done it before if they wanted to take the time to do it as a bespoke head but yes this opens up the possibilities for CNC porting.

Well the HIP shrinkage is a direct result of the porosity in the metal. I suppose a foundry with more sophisticated process control could manage micro porosity better but that is leagues above the people I work with. The last batch of four heads we did were poured one right after the other as fast as we could and they all shrank at different rates. At this point it's not a problem I need to solve since I've made the transition to chills. Thanks anyway though. All the machining is done with CNC controlled machines. Although they are converted manual machines they get the job done.

The casting shrinkage during solidification is pretty predictable and repeatable. The shrinkage from the HIP process on the other hand was really tough to predict.