Scottie-GNZ

NEVER heard of that before.

'87 Buick 3.8L turbo drivetrain. "GNZ" is supposed to stand for Grand National Z.

What is the 594' measurement?

-The shortblock has been freshened up with +.020 Fed Moguls hypers pistons. "OH MY GOSH, those pistons are crap and will certainly blow up" :D Just had to get that in. Only other thing done to the shortblock is ARP rod bolts. Those pistons have been in for 2.5yrs with a couple hundred passes. -The heads are ported iron heads with slightly larger valves (not even worth mentioning) but higher quality and port-matched intake -Larger TB, 62mm upgraded from a 57mm. Yes, many L28s have larger TBs than me -Larger turbo, 62 compressor and P-trim, but it is actually a hybrid because it has a t3 .63 turbine housing, internal wastegate -3" mandrel DP and single exhaust -Massive SX pump and filter, -8 feed, stock Z feed as return, 50# injs and LOTS of octane! -Cartech FMIC with 2.25"/2.5" plumbing -Crank up the boost to 24-25psi. -Careful, diligent tuning Power-wise, that's it. Other: 3200 stall 9.5" converter, shift kit and transbrake, ratchet shifter, 26x9.5-16 Hoosier QTPs on 16x8, front skinnies on 15x3.5, know your car and setup so well you become one with it at the track.

Sleeper is right about mounting fuel components on the firewall. Look at my pic and you see a big Fram fuel filter mounted on the firewall. Despite braided hoses, I had to relocate it as per the track (NHRA) rules.

Alex, WELL SAID Folks need to aware that they should not fear NOS, Turbos or S-Chargers. It is not the boost or NOS that kills engines, it is the detonation. Like everything else, there are limits to how far you can go and in these cases, the limit is when you reach the point of detonation. That limit can be extended by careful tuning, timing being most critical, high quality and the required quantity of high-octane gas and for the forced-induction, keeping heat to a minimum.

never used it and most modded L28ETs with aftermarket pumps do not. No problems that I ever heard of.

I did mine like Hoke, except I was using a Bosch FPR.

If you are already running low-8s, that's about 12.70-80, so just working on the 60' will get you there. Add the nitrous AFTER you nail down launching the car.

First suggested update. Add to the Intercooler section, something to the effect that: as a rule of thumb, never consider an OEM I/C that was supplied with an engine that made less HP than the L28ET. The big benefit of an I/C to an L28ET is that it greatly reduces the intake charge temp, allowing you to raise the boost w/o introducing excessive heat. Raising the boost increases HP and HP equates to flow. If an OEM I/C was designed to support the flow of a 160hp engine (Starion, e.g.), will it support an L28ET when the boost is increased? It will if you think the OEMs designed their I/C with 40-50% extra capacity. The exception to this rule are those designed for big desiels (sp?). Crap, probably too long so edit as you see fit.

First suggested update. Add to the Intercooler section, something to the effect that: as a rule of thumb, never consider an OEM I/C that was supplied with an engine that made less HP than the L28ET. The big benefit of an I/C to an L28ET is that it greatly reduces the intake charge temp, allowing you to raise the boost w/o introducing excessive heat. Raising the boost increases HP and HP equates to flow. If an OEM I/C was designed to support the flow of a 160hp engine (Starion, e.g.), will it support an L28ET when the boost is increased? It will if you think the OEMs designed their I/C with 40-50% extra capacity. The exception to this rule are those designed for big desiels (sp?). Crap, probably too long so edit as you see fit.

MAJOR KUDOS :2thumbs:

MAJOR KUDOS :2thumbs:

You did not say how quick/fast you want to go, but what you have there could take you a long way before you add nitrous. Do not add NOS or any other power adders until you have maximized what you have, else you will just be masking a bad setup/tuneup. If this was my car, I would add a mild cam, whatever Edelbrock recommends with that intake and work on the 60'. The 60' is your biggest problem right now and improving it will net you a bunch, probably even more than the cam. For every .1 you affect the 60', you affect the 1/4-mile ET by .15. Do not know how else to say it, but a 2.5 60' is bad!. Set a goal of a 1.8 60' and that will net you 1-sec in the 1/4-mile. People spend BIG $$$ to gain 1-sec. Find a pair of 235/60-15 BFG DRs, mount them on some spare rims and use those for the track. Then practice to find out what is the best way to launch the car. You will probably find out that the hardest launch technique is sometimes not the quickest.

I tried to dyno my car once but the chip I use, the way it is programmed and the procedure used by the dyno operator were not compatible. I use a datalogger and feel I have been doing fine tuning on my backroads and the track. As for how much HP, I calculate it with a formula (quite accurate) that factors in ET, MPH and weight w/driver. With 2,750lbs and a best of 10.36 @ 131.75, the formula spits out 484.8RWHP. How does that compare to a dyno? Since a dyno measures peak HP and the formula is more of an average over distance, I would venture a conservative guess of 500+. Hard to say if that is a good estimate because I do not know how long before I reach peak after launch and regain regain peak between the shifts and locking up the converter. For all I know it could be 525 but the only number that counts to me is useable HP. No point in having a big dyno number if you cannot put it to the ground or have to wait endless seconds to get to peak. I believe throwing dyno HP numbers around for comparison is water-cooler chit-chat. The only meaningful thing about a dyno number is how YOUR best pull compared to your 1st pull. Oops. Long answer to a short question

Call me a skeptic, but there are too many contradictions. This coming from someone who also runs about 25psi boost.

Jersey, the reason that system "looks so nice" is because it was built with a mandrel bender at the shop that used to bend the DPs for me. That exhaust is in 3 pieces connected with slip joints so it could be broken down and shipped to Germany for someone in the military (shipped thru APO, of course). I basically removed the exhaust on my car had them duplicate it. All the odd bends was to get the maximum ground clearance. I did someone a favor and I can tell you it was more hassle than I want to deal with again which is why I no longer do the DPs. I can appreciate what JeffP is going through now.

I agree wholeheartedly, especially if you running a lot of boost. Here is my assessment from my L28ET webpage made back in late '99. "The 3†exhaust, combined with the custom downpipe, gave me one of the biggest performance boost to date. If you do nothing else to your turboZ, this is the one to consider. "

Turbo Regals and GNs use the identical drivetrain and ironically, the TRs are usually lighter. There was even a lightweight special-edition TR, codename WE4. There is no kit for the Buick swap so plan on making new engine and tranny mount brackets. Let me address the question of how fast a Z would be with a stock Buick drivetrain by saying that number would be meaningless because no one leaves the Buick turbo stock as it is too damn easy to get another 75hp The 1st time I took my setup to the track, I had a bone stock engine, ran 17psi,, launched it off idle with street tires and got a horrible 2.19 60', had 3.90 gears (bad!) and really did not know how to tune it. 60' - 2.19 1/8 - 8.18 @ 91.93 1/4 - 12.41 @ 114.7 2 months later, I went: 60' - 1.63 1/8 - 7.34 @ 95.06 1/4 - 11.50 @ 117.24 Here is what it took to get there: - 3.54 R200 - $0 - 20psi boost - $0 (stock turbo out of breath ) - Used upgraded wastegate elbow - $40 - Manual transbrake - $129 - Used McCreary G60-15 tires - $75 - Manual lockup switch for converter - $5 Having said all of that, I have to ask what are your performance goals and what setup do you have on your SBC? Too often I see folks disappointed with the SBC w/o realizing going into it that not all SBCs are born equal. I would say decide on your performance goals, understand what it would take to achieve that goal with what you have, then compare that to the cost of making the swap. If you have a run-of-the-mill SBC and your goals are high, it will take a sh*tload of $$$ which would be best spent buying a good crate motor, building one or modding an LT1 or LS1. Compared to doing the GN, the cost will probably be the same, especially if you have to pay to get the swap done. However, where a modded NA leaves off, the GN can continue. I know there will be folks out there saying modded NA can make big HP and no denying it but we do not know what kind of budget we are dealing with. BTW, are prepared for automatic only? If your goal is reasonable, it might just take the right combo of parts to make your current setup fly. E.g., you did not specifiy your 60'. Folks do not seem to realize that if you have a fairly powerful car but can only cut 2.0s, you are giving away .5 in the 1/4-mile and all it takes is decent tires and practice. If you look at the 2 timeslips I have up there, the 2nd was a 41+hp improvement. How can only 41hp net .91 in the 1/4? Easy answer, the 60'. I say do not give up on your current combo yet unless your goals are really high.

I think you fail to see the detail in what 240Z Turbo posted. He specifically posted the turbine wheel and the turbine housing combinations. Those are the keys to how a turbo spools not the fact that it has a massive T66 on the compressor side. To follow on to what he posted with my own experience, I run a TE-63 turbo with a P-trim turbine wheel but I use a .63 T3 turbine housing. When I launch, I have full boost before the car travels a couple of feet, which is one of the reasons why my 60' is so quick. If I switched my compressor side to a 66 and retained the turbine side I have, I doubt the spoolup would be much different. However, if I switched to a turbine housing with a massive A/R, I would probably run 136-7mph and probably a slower ET. This is something that others fail to realize, especially in the SupraTT world. Their focus is so much on making max peak HP on a dyno or running 140+ in 1/4 that they end up sacrificing spoolup. If those guys caught on and starting tailoring their turbine housings to improve spoolup, they would be a terror on the dragstrip.

Jersey, you are doing just fine with your efforts. This is what you want to end up with.

Never heard of a Griffin blowing off or leaking at the seals for the tanks. 500RWHP here and my 3-yr old Griffin is doing just fine. Temps never go above 185* in the FL summer with a 28" FMIC, oil cooler and B&M trans cooler all in front of it. BTW, that is with an unidentified shrouded 16" fan from the J/Y . You have to fab mounts and it has no petcock, but still a bargain at $188.

Getting it ready for Reynolds?

Then spit out the damn gum :D :D Oh I kill me :D

Speeder and I have had many discussions on this topic. These actuators were used on many OEM setups but I have no idea how it was deployed and controlled. IMO, it would work best incorporated with some sort of electronics. As you are aware, single-porters begining opening the puck before they actually reach the desired boost limit and lengthens the time it takes to reach that limit. With equal boost pressure applied to both sides of the diaphragm, the puck stays closed allowing the boost to reach a limit quicker. If the pressure at both ports remain equal then the puck will remain closed by the spring pressure until the pressure in the turbo pushing against the puck, forces it open. Not Good. However, if both pressure sources were controlled through a valve, then it is becomes magical. Lets say you want to run 15psi, then as the turbo starts to build boost, if both ports have equal pressure, the puck stays closed and the turbo builds boost faster. When the boost hits 15psi, the pressure in the front port that would normally keep the pucked closed is suddenly reduced, causing the other port to move the rod and open the wastegate. The magical part for me is the ability to build boost on a t-brake or foot-brake (Sorry stick-shifters) and control how much boost you launch with. Lets say I want to launch with 12psi boost, with this I can put my foot to floor and never worry about the boost going above 12psi. The Turbonetics unit has a default pressure of 7psi, adjustable to 12psi. But what if you want to run 20psi? Difficult w/o electronic control because when both ports have equal pressure, the puck is being held closed by 12psi of spring pressure. If you try to run 20psi, the pressure in the turbo will overcome the 12psi and open the wastegate. However, if the electronics controlling the back port (that normally opens the wastegate) is receiving less pressure, then the puck will be force to stay closed. When 20psi is reached, the electronics then makes the pressure in the front port less than the back port and that forces the puck open. While all of this is going on, the puck stays close to buid boost faster. Sorry, but I think I rambled again and it makes perfect sense to me but I am not sure about anyone else. So, Speeder, when are we going to get going on the e-Boost controller? :D I here 9s calling me.