Tony D

My most famous 'to specification' story revolves around someting W. Edwards Demming would talk about during his lectures. It involved JATCO (Japan Automatic Transmission Company) C4 Transmissions made for Ford in the 70's. Seems Ford was plauged by a 50% failure rate on these units in the fleet. Not specifically the JATCO stuff, but the C4 in some models would fail about half the time. The transmissions when investigated were all 'within spec'. This was at the beginning of Ford's SPC program, and someone there noted they had two suppliers... When investigating further, they found that the JATCO supplied transmission had a statistical ZERO failure rate. The transmissions from the other supplier had a 100% failure rate! They got some examples in from the field, and true to what was noted in all the failures above, the trannies were all 'within spec'---when the JATCO transmissions were disassembled though, they couldn't measure a difference between parts. That is to say, each transmission disassembled did not have a RANGE of tolerance, with the tools the Ford engineers were using, they couldn't MEASURE a difference from transmission to transmission. They were 'identical' as far as they could tell. So there you have a classic case of what is referred to as 'tolerance stack'---meaning if you measure to a RANGE, then 'in spec' says it's good. But if you have something at the low end of the acceptable specification range coupled to something to another component at the high end of the acceptable specification range...and then bolt it to a third component.... all those 'acceptable specifications' add up to something so loose and terribly assembled that while it may work it doesn't work very long. And this isn't bashing Ford, they figured out the issues and saw the value of repeatable narrow production tolerances. Several years later Volvo got a bad batch of ZF Trannies... 100% failure rate by 35K miles. It was just a matter of time till they reached the mark and failed. D'OH! Working for a compressor company we got a bad batch of bearings from SKF one time, and we knew every element assembled with those bearings would fail prematurely. Some stuff you can't help, it happens. But measurement and tolerance creep IS totally controllable. Keep your tolerances within a range for the intended use of the machine. Don't get crazy (I have seen guys plane a head 0.001"---bit nutzo for me when the block is flat!) but never accept nebulous answers. If they did an inspection, they should be able to give you numbers. If the guy does like most do, they grabbed a machinist's straightedge and a 0.003" feeler gauge and started poking about. If it didn't slip under anywhere, 'it's in spec'... That's where the head going one place, and the block to another can cause a problem. This is probably the only site where I can say 'Be an in-tolerant buggar!' and not get lovey-yellow submarined to death about being inclusive and all that rot... Be intolerant of tolerance!

I'm thinking I know which one you are talking about. It's also said it's a JDM 2 Liter making that 500rwhp as well, right? Below 6500rpm. On less than 20# of boost. Do the math.

150 is stock, and I mean bone-stock L28 low compression engine power. My L28 from a 1980 280ZX 2+2 with 225,000 miles and 150psig compression across the board spun the dynojet to 146 hp. I figure with a flat top engine and decent compression I'd have broken 150. Stock EFI system, stock intake, stock exhaust manifold... and a crush bent 2.5" exhaust.

My brother, despite several Michigan University System Awarded Degrees, hasn't figured that one out yet. Now lives in a repo'd forclosure he bought on Lake St.Clair... I figured I didn't want to mess with it, and once schooling was adequately accomplished, I moved to warmer climates! I'm going to suggest his inability to get moved is related to the cold making him stupid. "Stupid Cold"---Oh, I can think of so many ways to use that one! ROMALOL

Take a look before you jump off that bridge, it may make you re-evaluate your decision to jump in the first place... "Water is harder than it looks!"

Did the same guy check the head and the block? What was his definition of 'to spec'---0.004"? Understand that both surfaces can be 'to spec' and you can have a 0.0075" mismatch. How do you think that will seal? NEVER accept 'to spec' answer from any 'mechanic'! If they can't give you a number, they eyeballed it. Anybody asks me what the warpage check was, I can give them a number, and where. I might say 'it was to spec' but unless it was GLASS FLAT there's warpage that can add up and that (IMO) it is incumbent upon the inspector to pass on to the person paying for the work. I've seen 0.008" combined. The previous shop had said "it's a the edge of spec, but it should be fine. Of course the head was piecemealed to a 'head specialist' separately who had a similar tale to tell. And then the first head gasket blew... Other than that, 'what braap said' -- if the gasket calls for a retorque, then do so. I have always put half a tube of Aluma-Seal in the coolant system since seeing Ford adding it to every car coming off the production line (later I found that Volvo does this as well...) People can say what they want about it, but nusiance leaks like what you are experiencing likely will be taken care of by 1/2 a tube, and when you flush your coolant next year (er, you do flush you coolant annually, right?) it goes away leaving the little pluggies doing their thang...

Music has Evolved since "Double Live Gonzo"?

I don't know, 'stupid price' is in the eye of the beholder, I might pay $50 for one without the tubes (actual JDM piece...) but with the tubes as a selling point???? Inferno, my dad says it was 10 today... what's your forecast for tomorrow. It's 32 here... 32C MAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You can make an S130 an In-Tank arrangement, it's not all that difficult. I think JeffP has some shots on his website for when he was running the Z32TT pump internally. I think he's back 'external' now, but I did see some shots he sent me on a 1/2" pickup/return adaptation he made for the S130 pickup arrangement.

The diagram you have is pretty much functionally idedntical to 3A. I'd go with 3A. A plugging filter will not affect fuel flow to the carbs, in 3B, the regulator will sense pressure at the inlet to the filter---you never know what you will be getting downstream of it. With 3A, as the filter plugs, the return on the regulator closes to keep pressure (and flow) constant to the carbs.

Exactly, that cap may well be where you add the water and ice to the heat sink for the I/C...

Let me pause, Presidentially, and consider the magnetude of the dude contemplating crankification of the torquificisity of the sitchiyation...

There was a time when the PYPs on Wilmington and Blinn were rife with them. JeffP bought one out of there some years ago and sold it to Europe for $7K! Bought it for $700 off the hook as it came into the south Blinn yard. Now they get tagged at the auctions, and usually go to 'specialty yards'.

Using a backpressure regulation scenario, it is the only one where full pump capacity can be delivered to the carbs. Every other scenario either restricts the flow to the carbs, or dumps capacity before reaching the carbs. Once restricted or dumped, it's never available for the carbs to use. People who have changed to a backpressure regulation system have been amazed their stockish pumps do well with far more horsepower. When it all is available to the engine (carbs) you don't get much better than that. For SU's you can "T" the pump to supply round the back and front of the engine to the respective carbs, and run the regulator between them with return back to the tank---similar to the looped stock EFI system (note Nisssan uses Backpressure Regulation for the stock FPR...) You can run them into "T"s or whatever... But you will notice the fuel pressure remains constant and your fuel pump amperage draw can be used as a direct correlation to fuel flow if you have good datalogging.

Argh, none are as blind as those who won't see. Two FPR's on the firewall, guys two independent return-styl fuel supply systems one for the carbs, one for the EFI contingent. On a drag engine, which is shut down at the end of the run, fuel percolation is not an issue. Those floats are down, and the fuel going into those bowls leaves them so quick it would make your head spin! The hint is the six additional injectors outside the carb barrels---he's pumping in some heavy fuel. I'd be curious to know the times on that car... As for a radiator---it's only behind it if it's all the way across top to bottom. How big is the radiator on a 10,000 NHRA top fuel dragster, BTW? In case nobody noticed, the upper radiator hose goes to the right fenderwell---my bet is what you guys are thinking is a 'radiator cap' to the right of the I/C in the photo is actually the fuel cel for one of the fuel systems. I know that's where mine is... A whole 2 gallons worth. Stock tank is full of water for ballast and traction. Live inside the box, die inside the box. Or not! Daeron, yer slippin' man! Anybody else notice the lagged and stored independent ignition system to the left in the photo? Or the shape of the plenum on those carbs? Interesting...

Check CHTS loop at the ECU, and that the fuel pressure is correct. Let us know what you find.

Coments as follows: With an EFI system, and a deadhead like that to the injectors...well "it's your engine do as you please". On the 'some other method' for Webers, it's been done offroad for years where you remove the floats, epoxy in a wier with fuel cel foam and 'dry sump' the fuel delivery. Gives EXTREMELY consistent fuel levels in VERY ROUGH off-roading environments. But we're not agreeing on fuel pump and regulation placement, so let's not even get into that one!

In a ZCar.com moment, I will add "no man, that's wasted-spark you're talking about!"

Niiiiiice! I wouldn't part with it at all, they will only become more valuable as the time goes by...

That's BAD! North Dakota? We have a former club member (who was posting here) that moved 'back home' to ND. Took his 77 Fairlady Z as well...

"The early 240s just weren't designed with air conditioning and real hot weather in mind. As long as the car was moving and getting decent airflow across the radiator, the car did okay." Time for subtle rephrasing: "The early NORTH AMERICAN MARKET LEFT HAND DRIVE 240s just weren't designed with air conditioning and real hot weather in mind. As long as the car was moving and getting decent airflow across the radiator, the car did okay." They were severely decontented, with absence of splash pan, Full Radiator Shroud or the higher BTU radiator that was put into the RHD Vehicles that came with A/C from the factory (an in-dash unit, just like the 260's and 280Z's had!) Being that the cars were marketed and sold in Okinawa, it makes Houston feel like Boston in February. The lack of Aerosols there (unlike Houston) will add to thermal layering at radiator height. Instead of monitoring ambient temperature, put some K thermocouples in the radiator air stream, and under the hood (or monitor your ECU for inlet air temperature) --- I think you will be surprised what you find, but from my testing the temps there aren't that much different than ambient. Go to West Texas and NM where the skies are a deep blue (and not light blue/grey) and you will see a marked increase in thermal layer temperature into the radiator. We ran at Reno LeMons and blistered the race as the leaders for that time... till our harmonic balancer took a dump and the engine burned itself down. And that was a stock junkyard engine, with a junkyard three core radiator, running a Kragen Thermostat for a 1962 Chevrolet Biscayne 327 (160F) and a stock new water pump. I think we had an old 16# cap on there We didn't get anywhere near overheating, and were running a 3.54 at the time with a four speed. Plans are for a 3.9. With the specific output of a stock Z engine there is plenty of margin for it.---if you are having problems, you're missing something big, or mistuning severely. We consume 11 gallons in 2 hours, and do a driver change, and the heating has never been an issue for Mr. Hanky, or his successor Hanky Too (which inherited his heart from Hanky 1) This discussion was really revolving around cars putting out at LEAST 2X what your N/A racer is making, and in many cases 3X that amount. Anything below 300HP to the rear wheels should not have any issues using bone stock parts. If you are detonating, it's not from cooling, but likely more misapplication of parts or lack of attention to assembly detail. This stuff will kill you. For sure, below 200HP the stock stuff should have no issues. We run NO fan, and pray there aren't any stops or slows---as long as we are moving at 30mph, the needle doesn't budge. Why no fan? Because it tends to wreck radiators when you hit something, and we figured 'why risk the failure point' --- though for some track testing it gets reinstalled with the full stock Datsun Shroud. Trying to rethink engineers with millions of yen to back them, and hundreds of hours on the dyno to test sometimes is a foolish escapade. If you are running endurance events differential cooling will hit you as the next failure point after you get the cooling system up to snuff.

All I will say is that at a point, the sound from the tailipes stops being independent waves, and starts 'warbling' in a very distinctive sound. My comment on 'valve float' was not related to power production (though directly is could be...) It was more a comment that we shift at 9500, not because of any reason like 'we have to'... The engine will spin higher than that, and to that end, in our testing at the same dyno John C recommended to us in LaHabra, we didn't get the valves to float on a 'how high will it go' run. As side point is none of the rockers are polished like in the valvetrain thread, etc... the cam is MUCH smaller than most people think, but it makes the power. It's not a dry combination of parts, it's how they are worked to work together. For land speed, knowing your power curve, and how high you can run the engine dictates which tires you bring, and what your attack strategy will be. That engine was making 105hp/liter on under 11:1 compression. I now have a head where we may be able to make 14-15:1 CR, and with a MUCH more agressive cam in both lift and duration. It should allow us to have a peak power point about 92-9500, and our shift points will be accordingly higher. I can only hope the helmet cam catches the 'warble' when we hit that point. The sound is intoxicating. Rebello may make the engines but I don't know anybody on the salt running a Rebello-L there... Maybe those guys in the Red 240Z that went 163 last year. I owe them a dollar! But I want to see the car in person before I pay... And like JC said, if you limit your thoughts to inside the box, you will get the same results as everybody in the same box. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

My understanding that ElaineZ from ZC.C is from that neck of the weeds. Banned on three different forums, I'm glad it never made it here. I would say maybe one day you will meet her, so there are worse things than Braap out there. Hell, you could have met me, ID is in my territory, but haven't gotten the call to Lucky Friday Mine just yet... That would put two things worse than Braap, but ElaineZ is still worse than me. Leatherfacedharpiebi....I digress...

"Lots of people would kill over $1000." Er... In some cases, its 'not the money, it's the principle of the thing'... I heard (?) of a couple of E7's in the Air Service who restricted their entire contingent of working men to base, while they went out on the town in Olangapo and Angeles City PI every night. It went along well until one of the guys in the squadron who just happened to have relatives nearby started telling them he couldn't come see mom and sister because he was restricted to base. I hear a collection was made, and the grand total was $200. Reportedly, allegedly (and I would have no knowledge of it firsthand at all) it was $10 from everybody on the pre-team. When the local 'toughs' were contacted reportedly their first question was 'who is it you want killed' with the second reported question being 'and were do you want us to dump the body?' I'm told by sources that after much emphatic cajoling, and coaching on what they were to be told, they agreed to the deed. But they were shocked that they reportedly were being paid that much money only to break some arms. The story goes they said "We break arms only $20!" That Friday Nite, MSGT E, and MSGT C went into town. Saturday at roll call they were late. Apparently they came in with casts on their arms, and a WHOLE NEW ATTITUDE about this 'restriction to base' thing they had going. Neat story, wish I could remember who first told it to me. Or some of the names. I forget those details over the years. It was a good story. But I forget so much. It's hell getting old and forgetting details like that. Boy, I bet those guys had a great time in town after being cooped up on base for two weeks straight working 16 hour days! "A round of San Miguel for my friends, and a game of Smiles, if you will mamasan!" Galing-Galing mo'eko, sip sip m'buto! LOL

"Not exactly illegal or immoral..." Actually, it is immoral. Illegal? No, Immoral, hell yes!