Pharaohabq

So anyway, back to the ECU's. did any of you get to try one on an L28 yet? I know I could make it work with a GM ECU, but that's not the point. One of the Nissan ECU's shouldn't be too much more difficult as they require basically the same inputs, MAP Temp, etc. though you'll need to duplicate the timing signals for the CPS. Usually this is done off from the flywheel, and unfortunately isn't often the same 36:1 wheels that could be used for MS or EDIS. though, On here, Derek has made a bolt on timing wheel for the L28 that could be modified to show the appropo timing signal. Some systems also use a Cam sensor to detect where the distributor is, but on a newer engine with coilpacks you wouldn't need it. NDIS runs off the CPS. So setting up the Crank Timing wheel, and CPS will be the hardest part of this project. OBD-I or OBD-II are really very similar, mainly it's just that 2nd O2 sensor in the exhaust, which any shop can put in for you. tho you may need a tube to fool the comp to say there's a cat in place. OBD-1 doesn't have that, though Nissan used Consult and thier own standed prior to 96. Phar

Hey that rear end is looking really sweet, you sure do good work, I'm still very impressed. Are you concerned about water spraying up inside it from behind? It looks like you cut out the old panel and welded your new one in place. but how are you sealing it since it didn't look like you welded the inside? Phar

I was just going off what that site I'd quoted had said. Though modle years and actual years do vary. if your dad had a '70 with Vin 10,xxx then I'd be more likely to believe you. but read that site, it's interresting if nothing else. Separately I too believe these cars will definitely apprieciate as a whole, since every year so many or them drop off the planet due to accident/cannibalism/rust though likely they will never reach the popularity of the Mustang, though a Z can whip a Stang anyday... hehe. there is a lot to be said of the mustang guys, they pioneered a lot of the resto methods we use. Z's are definitely more rare than mustangs. I think the 66 model year production surpassed the entire Z production for all S30 years. probably for each year passed too. This accounts for the mustang popularity, since so many people had them as young people, then as they get older they pine for the days or their youth, and fun time in their old car. there's a mentality you'll see especially at vintage car meets. Aside from the oohs and ahh's you'll see a lot of people in dreamlike states remembering good times. But I digress, the S30's likely will gain value, though it's doubtful it'll be a lot only due to the lower popularity they had as new production cars. As he said too, a mustang collector may have 50 to choose from, but a S30 collector may have less than 5. just look on Ebay, you'll see what I mean. OP: I'm glad you're not going to chop it up. It's your car so do what you like, we'll help however you decide. Just keep your old parts in a crate somewhere. You won't regret it. oh and yeah photobucket or anywhere you can post pictures is good to link from... Also, how bad is #230? thanks Phar

yeah, ditto on the safety glasses. It doesn't just hurt, YOU CAN LOSE A FRICKEN EYEBALL! yeah so safety glasses is a big +... Yeah I wasn't sure he wanted to cut the other Z up. yeah it's got problems too, I know, but you don't want to put rusted pieces on your car, and there's some body difference between a 240 and a 260/280z .. but hey if you got a panel. oh there was a guy in espanola that had some 240z parts, I will write him n see what he's got left. he had a hatch I was going to get but never could find the time to drive up there. phar

Wow # 230, that's EARLY How smashed up is it? Sucks to hear about one injured, but it happens. 6016 is still very early though it's above 5000. I forget how many were built in 1969 and how many in 70' the 1969 ones are a lot more collectable than the 70's but any under ~10K are definitely sought after. there was a site that talked about them, let me look : http://www2.zhome.com:81/ according to that, the first 500 vins were 1969 cars and then above ~5200 were 1971's so that makes ~4500 1970 240Z's out there, and how many are left after nearly 50 years? Hard to say, but really I would doubt there's that many, that's why we make such a big deal about the early VIN S30's... So seriously, how bad is the damage on his #230? Phar

sadly I don't have a spare set of buckets. That lens is a good find, tho wow the cooper lights are really deep. I wonder if they'd fit at all. I'm a little worried about the angle too. This is a later project for me now. I need to get my engine back in the Z. Phar

Hah! there you go. I guess you should be Capt Obvious, since none of us thought to have you check the cap and rotor. I'm glad it's fixed.

Justin, Well painting over the rust doesn't really help, I'm sure you know what, but once you get it all cleaned off with a wire brush (I use one on a angle grinder) you can remove most of it, then hit you can hit that area with some good primer and see what the metal looks like for reformation. one trick you can do since you have the other Z is to make a form off the outside of the "straight" Z, by taking a little block of 2x4 and a pen and some cardboard, use the 2x4 to space the pen from the side of the Z, and sliding along, trace the shape onto some cardboard. then cut that cardboard out and test how well it fits the good Z. once you get that, you can transfer that shape to a 2 ft piece of 2x4 and then cut the 2x4 out with a jigsaw so you have a wooden form. you can then put the convex side of the form inside the Z against the panel, and see what needs to be pulled out, and you can use your mallet to tamp the outside into the right shape. though you'll need to brace the inside board to keep it from moving. You can also check your outside with your cardboard or the concave part of the 2x4 if it's even. you may have to make multiple forms, but this should get you close enough for the bondo to even things out a bit. I'm not saying this is the best way, just that this is A way.. Phar

Well, might be time for Megasquirt is the ECU's are too much... You might check your ingnition timing, sounds like your distrib might have moved or much worse you may have slipped a tooth on your timing chain. my S30 did that a few years ago not happy... I'd be looking for a bad ground since you say you've got good spark if it's not the timing....

okay, First thing, just pry off all the honda emblems and stick a couple Z emblems on there, then get some Sticky back paper to make your own bumper stickers, and put "When I grow up I want to be a Z" on the back. hehe.. Okay now for what you can do, You should get some Z32 seats n throw them in there, and uh... I don't know what else you can do but this is hybridZ... Gotta at least use Z parts. Really tho, DD and pizza delivery veh, a CRX is a pretty good choice. As a veteran of the pizza biz myself (I actually used to deliver in a 78 S30, in college, till I got a festiva to beat) I think you'll find you can't beat the gas mileage, esp if the Pizza Co makes you buy your own gas. You'll find delivering beats the hell out of your shocks and brakes, so those would be my next choice for upgrades. Just use higher quality carbon pads, and if you can find them some heavier springs unless shocks are cheap. These should last you a while. Most of all think about how long you're keeping the car, and tailor your mods to that. No sense in polishing a turd if you're going to flush it... now get back to work on your Z, I know it's not done yet... Phar

These cooper lights have a small back end to them so they still might work. I was thinking they may have to sit forward in the Z headlight bucket a little anyway. They are round, but laid back offset a little. I wonder if I can find one on Ebay or somewhere to play with it. I dont' want to mess with changing the hood hinges or any of that. I was thinking to mount these behind a set of the S30 headlight covers so is keeps the shape, but then has all the advantages of the modern headlight. Phar Anyone got photoshop skilz?

So I was driving today, and noticed a New Mini cooper behind me. I didn't notice it for the car, but for the headlights. I was thinking "Hmm those look like they're about the same size as the lights on my S30." So I wonder how hard would it be to fab a set of Mini Cooper headlights into an S30? like I said they look similar in size... Has anyone modified the S30 buckets to fit different lights. I guess I need to get some photoshop skills. Phar

yeah ditto, That black one maybe only if it's a 78 and the paint code was black pearl. Otherwise skip it, it's got a crapped up sunroof. 100 bucks for a parts car might not be bad if it has parts yo actually need. Find your real builder first then think about the parts cars... I bought my 78' S30 for $300 bucks, no realy rust cept for behind the rear wheels. Phar

Well there's a lot of stickies you should read before you buy a "new" Z. Search and read a lot of those, both on here and also on NICO.com. I'll summarize some of it. There's a lot of considerations when looking into an old Z. First: They ALL have rust. it's how much is what the issue is. Some places you need to look: 1. Just behind the front suspension, there's a "reenforced area" look for rust through here, press of it with your thumb, sometimes it is rusted through and just looks okay. 2:Look around the rear hatch/deck and in the spare tire area. 3. if you can, look under the carpet in the front to see the floorpans.. 4. look under the battery/tray Rust in these areas is common, and any of these combined with the rust you've mentioned might be a deal breaker, but it also depends on where you live. WA is a wetter climate so it might be harder to find cars there. Repairing rust requires Welding. Can you do that? do you know people who can help? There's a lot od places you can find replacement panels, but you'll also be fabricating some replacements too. Look up Tabco, MSA, Blackdragon Z and Datsunrestore. These places can help you get things sorted. Make a list and make a realistic budget, then add 50% and you'll be close to the actual cost. Take this into account before you buy the car, know what you're getting into. you'll also need to think about what you want to do with the car, you said you have an engine/tranny, so that's good. you'll have that part 80% already. But what other updates will you want? Add that to the list. Read read read, there's 1000's of pages of info on these cars and how people have fixed and modified them, and you're bound to find information on the exact problems you'll run into. (the charging might be the problematic 240Z fusebox, plug in replacements are availiable) once you have a really good idea of what you want and want to do with the car, then go talk to the guy and see what you're getting into, then I'd recommend walking away and sleeping on it. Tell the guy you'll let him know in the morning yes or no. Add it up and decide on wither to keep looking or to go for it and make him an offer. IMHO $1200 is high priced for needing so much work. (I bought my 78' 280Z for $300. very little rust, but I'm in NM. and there are fewer S30's in WA.) Phar

Wow, that is a pretty early 240Z. it's the 2764th one ever made. You will lose a lot of it's collector value if you do anything other than stock mods. You should think about a cam and maybe some other common early Z mods like disc brakes, but get a wooden crate and keep all the parts you take off it. that will help preserve some value. though really a 1 owner car like that is super rare, and would be a shame to see it get chopped up. it's your car though, just know what you're doing. That low a VIN it really could be worth 20K to the right person. Clean it up and put it on Ebay for 18K n see what happens. Can't wait to see the picts. Really a restore would be the best choice, but it's up to you. There's a lot of other cars out there that you can chop up and mod the heck out of. thanks. Phar

Derek, That's interresting it sucked your tube flat. I wonder what caused that? Could there be forces at work that we didn't account for? Maybe it was just an old tube. I'm glad you're getting better power out of your "magic horns" it's pretty cool. I'm so glad it's wife approved too, that means a lot since a lot of us have "budget managers" too. Hopefully, having done this will help you win more work, such as that honda job. you probably don't want to reuse anything from this for the honda, but saying that you've done it before should go a long ways to getting more work. We gotta get you out to a Dyno n see what your setup can do. knowing your compression and what block/head you have should give us a good idea or before and after. Though I totally understand the $$$$ side of this. so take your time, we can wait. That doesn't mean nobody wants to buy a set, so keep thinking about V2. Phar

That was my point too.. If you could get say 20K for it then wouldn't that be worth it? You could then get a 280 in decent shape, and mod the hell out of it. I realize this is a Modder's site. but it's a shame to see a rare car lose value. You told your dad you wouldn't sell it, but if you told him you could get 20K for it you might get a different opinion from him. I'm not saying I have the $ to pay, but you could try putting it on Ebay starting at 20K and see. though your vin would need to be say <9999 Aside from that, it's a moot point. We're happy to help you mod it anyway you want, it's just that we don't want to see you waste what could be a lot of money. we'd be :ass:assholes:ass: if we did. It would be like us saying oh go buy a FWD automatic for your car, it'll fit trust me . No we don't do that, we're just trying to help you learn from our mistakes. It's your car though, your choice. Phar Still hoping for pics and a Vin how many mi?

heh they'd mentioned that before, but you'd have to make a plenum and that would kinda ruin the look of those fancy horns. Derek, Hmm okay, I see that blanket might work, I was thinking a piece or two of stainless about the same width mounted under each manifold, basically enough to cover the wiring and tubing. That blanket looks good though. How is the balance between the horns? did you have to do much if any tweaking for that, or is the balance tube doing it's job and allowing the IAC and bleeder to keep things even straight from the block? I'm glad it's pulling a bit more than it was. I'd hate to think you did all this work and had basically stock performance. Gotta get you on a dyno then find some stock numbers to compare with, though it's too bad there's not before/after numbers. but hey if you go into production on these that shouldn't be a big deal to get. Megasquirt for dummies... sounds like a good name for a stickie in the Megasquirt forum huh? unfortunately I can't help you much w/ MS. Phar

Looks pretty good to me. I've been trying to decide on which airdam to get for mine. I've been thinking msa type I or type II. but it's hard to figure. I might just get the whole body kit since it's not that much more. What are you going to have to do prep-wise to paint your dam, is it basically the same deal, primer snad and paint just like the metal parts or is there special considerations since it's flexible? Phar

yeah it should be fine. You just don't want to overheat for very long and especially you don't want to just let it sit there overheated. Time will tell though, but you're probably fine. If you're really uncertain you can get a compression tester and see how your compression is. You could post the numbers if you need help. but anyway, I think you'll be fine. just replace the belt and see if there's any smoke. no smoke means you're good.

So what's the VIN on your 70' S30 if you don't mind us asking? What shape is it in, if it's a one owner like you're saying, you could make enough to buy 3 or 4 240Z's and nice turbo engines to go in them. Never underestimate the value a collector will put on a rare car. Documentation is a huge deal though, as is condition... NC I'd expect a bit of rust just from sitting in the humidity... if it was garaged, and <100K mi you'd be stupid to mod it.. but hey it's your car. You dad must not know what he gave you. Pics please... Phar

What "ticking" in your drivetrain are you refering to? The OHC on the L28's all make a clicking noise along with the injectors. It's normal. if that's your reference, then don't worry, it won't hurt anything. Though if your Turbo had a P90 or P90a head on it, then you'll have hydraulic lifters which are MUCH MUCH quieter. Probably nothing to worry about. now if the noise is much more a Klacking noise from the bottom of the engine, you might be in for that turbo engine a lot sooner than you think, as that noise could be a rod knock. Megasquirt. Well I haven't done a MS setup either, but from the few people who've posted about how they've done it, it's pretty straightforward. most people have it start right up on their first go. though ofter they have already tested the ms w/ a testboard. Just get a list of the components and make a diagram of what each one does, it's pretty easy from there. it's almost plug and play. You can then load different maps to tune it, but there's plenty of people on here who'll share their maps "pretuned" for stock, or for turbo applications. Exhaust: yeah keep your 2x pipes. you won't need more than that for quite some time, just integrate the downpipe into the system. shoudl be pretty easy and cheap even to have done at an exhaust shop. Phar

You can still drive with scored walls especially if the cylinder is dead, as noted with bad valve seat no compression. I didn't say it was frozen, lodged, just that where could be metal particles in by the rings. Scoring would only bring down compression, but could lead to other issues. As I said before, if you didnt' want to pay to have it all taken apart, you could just jack it up, drop the pan, pop out that piston, inspect it. replace anything that needed replacing. and pop it back in, button up the pan, then get your head fixed and you're probably okay. I don't think there's block damage looking at the picts, but you don't know if that damaged (cracked/bowed) the rod, or flattened a bearing. It's easy to do since the head is already off. Phar

That's pretty nifty tail conversion, did you buy those pieces you'd tacked on, or are you making these as well? Also what did you use to undercoat the bottom of your Z? Phar

Derek, Thats awesome, it sounds Great! Congrats on it running so well. It really looks cool, and it really really looks/sounds cool, and yes actually runs. very impressive. Lots of work to get you to this point, and thank you for letting us tag along virtially, sharing in this project. I know you've still got a lot to do, but it's wonderful to see it so close to complete. You've learned a lot and are truely the Horny Hero. Did it seem like you had any more power than you had with the stock setup? I imagine it would be pretty close, though I'm sure you're going to get a lot better MPG. I still worry about the heat buildup under the manifolds, you'll have to let us know how that blanket is working. I'm still voting for a plate bolted to the bottom of the horns even if it's minimal just something to protect your tubes and wires. How do you think they'd handle the racing reqs? I'm real curious to see power #'s. The rest of your engine is bone stock internals right? only mods are These, MS, and the EDIS right? Again though, you've done an amazing thing... Right now they're the only ones in the world. I bet you just have to design V2, and set a price, and you'll be a busy guy. You might even get MSA, BD and all those distributors interrested. Congrats again. you rock! Phar