Chickenman
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Everything posted by Chickenman
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For the idle air, you capped off the hose connection on the Throttle Body? No vent hoses attached at all? Can you post up a Picture of the TB. Make it a wide shot so I can see any hose routing. There is no IAC valve on these cars. Those are PWM solenoid valves. The Z31 ( and 280Z and ZX ) use an Auxiliary Air Regulator. It is a simple heated Bi-Metallic spring that moves a slotted slider. There is no need for any Idle Control programming. It use 12v and the facory Thermistor, which is another Bi-Metallic resistor. All analog control. The injectors back in those days had a lot of latency. They were slower to react than later versions. Erratic PWM is a sign of too low injector times. When you change injector dead times you have to generate a new VE table to compensate. Has no affect on actual fueling, just makes sure the injector is fully open. Low-z injectors are Peak and Hold. They initially ( this is all in milliseconds ) pull a high current till they open all the way. Once they are fully open the current is reduced, this is the Hold pattern. Injector dead time is the time it takes for the injector to open all the way, or Peak. If it is not long enough, the reduced current at the Hold period is not enough and the injector starts to close prematurely. Erratic Pule Width is a symptom of not enough dead time. Try 1.0 to 1.2ms. Update your firmware. The developers don't spend hundred of hours developing new firmware just for fun. They have bug fixes and additional features. 3.4.2 is a Mature build. It is stable and a final release. It's evolved through 3.4.0 and 3.4.1. Tune i made was built on 3.4.2. I don't want to release it on an earlier build as there can sometimes be mismatches in coding. I'll be more than happy to send it to you to evaluate, but only if firmware is upgraded. I think you will be pleased with it. Ready to test on another car that has similar issues as your car. VE Table was wildly in accurate initially on his car .... as is your's . That usually happens when you copy a tune from someone else. I develop my tunes from the MS default base Map. So I'm starting with a clean slate. Do you have the Registered ( $59.95 ) version of TS. It's well worth the price. Unlocks a number of features. And you can always upgrade to the Ultra edition at a later time... for a discounted price.
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You should also upgrade to the latest firmware 3.4.2 and buy the Registered version if you don't already have it.
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This is a Turbo car correct? Injectors are Turbo ZX 260cc. What Boost are you now running? First thing I saw was that your VE Table was scaled and calibrated calibrated for a normally aspirated engine. AFR and Ignition tables are also calibrated for a normally aspirated engine. Dead time may be a bit low on those injectors. 1.0 to 1.2ms is more probable I actually have a tune that I've worked on for another member. He's been fighting an overly rich mixture at idle as well. He downloaded someone elses tune. Problem with that is the VE Table does not Automatically recalculate. You can change the Fuel injector size, AFR Tables and Ignition Tables and save them But the VE Table does not change until you manually force a new Table generate. This tune I've worked on is fairly conservative. Will run up to 15 psi boost, but I've got it Boost locked at 10psi for the other fellow. Tell me more about your engine mods and fueling system. If it meets the criteria, PM me and I'll send you the Tune. Going to bed right now.
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Rock Auto also carries the phenolic injector holders with new metal retaining plate. SK-37 = $4.55 each . I ordered a bunch of those before they ran out. I think the Z31 uses the same style injector holder as the 280Z and 280ZX. For JECS style. MSA carries the injector holder screws. https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/standard+motor+products,SK37,fuel+injector+o-ring,13679
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Injector Dynamics injectors for the 1987 Toyota Celica Supra Turbo should fit. Confirm with Injector Dynamics first. Motorman injectors also has the cross reference for sizing between the Supra and Nissan seals. http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/category/injector-dynamics/id1050x/toyota/id1050x-supra-turbo-87-92-7m-gte.html The mid 80's Supra injectors fit the stock Intake manifold on the 280Z, 280ZX and apparently the Z31 as well. Uses the Denso style bottom seals. Same as Nissan. Body square seal is approx 27.8mm ( not installed ) . Bottom tip seal is 13.7-8mm ( not installed ) . So probably 28 mm and 14 mm installed. The Supra top seal is a standard 11mm O-ring. You can order the bottom seal kits from Rock Auto. Order the Standard Motor Products SK-4 kit. It's a whole $1.10 ( one dollar ten cents ). Gets even better. RA Info says SK-4 has 2 seals. I small tip seal and 1 large body seal. But when you get the kit, you will find it is a complete set of lower seals with 6 small tip seals and 6 large body seals. Guess how I know..... https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/nissan,1985,300zx,3.0l+v6+turbocharged,1209518,fuel+&+air,fuel+injector+o-ring,13679
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I'm out of idea...
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Check your Tacho configuration and other Pinouts. Make sure that JS10 is not used for two different things. If that is not the problem, try it on D14 again. If you get a good spark and can control timing don't worry too much about it. Probably a board configuration isse. Edit: You should also upgrade your MSExtra firmware to 3.4.2 as previously mentioned. Your current firmware is pretty old. 3.4.2 has been out for some time and is stable.
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Drive Safe and if you want to really learn about cars and racing, join an Autocross club if there is one near you. That's how I started and it was the best thing I ever did in my life. I've learned You learn all the skills about how handle your car, the old farts like me love to take new members under their wing, you pick up invaluable information from Gear Heads and and it's a safe way oi Race. Racing on the street is not Cool no matter what. I'll have a look at the log later, but with the LC-2 not being calibrated right it doesn't mean a lot. You'll have to get that fixed.
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Well, after a marathon remote tuning session from half a continent away. we got her up and running. At least halfway decent. Had an issue with an WB controller giving false readings, so I had to go by my own custom AFR Tables. Something still funky with the fuel calculations though IMHO. Mind you it's hard to diagnose if an engine is slightly rich or slightly lean from 3,000 miles away with an inaccurate AFR guage. Happy Birthday Morgen. Now time for me to take a Nap....
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Scca E Prod slick size
Chickenman replied to plygasser47's topic in Brakes, Wheels, Suspension and Chassis
John Berget tire is a great place to buy used slicks. Particularly this time of year. He usually has scuffs available with as little as 10 laps. Usually in bigger Pro Sizes though. He may have some E-Prod cantilevers used. Give him a call. -
Morgen. I finally got an answer back from MS forums on the dwell settings. As I suspected the Nominal Dwell settings and Spark discharge times from that tune you downloaded are wrong. Looks like the owner of that car had a fast change E-Coil. The settings for that will not work properly for the slower charging OEM canister type coil. I have revised the coils settings in this latets Tune file. Please download it and load it up for tomorrow. Changes are based on advice from MS/Extra forums. Nominal Dwell now = 3.1ms and Spark Duration now = 1.0ms. Previous setting would hav resulted in the coil not charging fully at higher RPM's. I'll be in touch tomorrow. Cheers Edit at 3:32 PM. Morgen. The original tune you downloaded is totally fracked up. I don't think the firmware versions are matching. I just downloaded a brand new default tune from MS for MS 2 with firmware version 3.4.2 ( what you said you were running ) and all of the Fuel calculations came out different. Since I based my tunes on that original tune that you downloaded. all my fuel calculations are likely fracked up as well. That is the big problem with downloading other people tunes. If there software and firmware don't match up exactly with what you have, you get a big hot mess. grabage in = Garbage out I now have the default tune downloaded from DIY for MS 2 . Extra firmware 3.4.2. And surprise, surprise. Guess what the coil settings default to for a Standard coil? Nominal Dwell = 3.1 ms and Spark Discharge = 1.0ms. Just about bang on with what I calculated for a Datsun canister coil Tomorrow we will dump all the tunes you have and start fresh. I'll transfer MS default Tune for 3.4.2 to you in morning and work on a fresh tune for you tonight. Based on the correct default base tune instead of someone else's mismatched tune. Hopefully you'll have a Happy Birthday!!!
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PM answered. Basically... follow the latest DIY instructions and run the latest firmware. There are various ways to build these boards and Board model, way board was built and Firmware version all have to match. You have to be careful when reading information from older posts because there are build revisions and firmware updates fairly often with MS.
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Gotcha...if you can setup the timing and Rotor Phasing as I listed in Post #75 before we do the Remote Tuning, then we should have a correct starting base to go on.
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PM sent about remote Tuning.
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Morgen. What MAP sensor are you running? GM, aftermarket or MS??? Doesn't look like the MAP has been calibrated yet from your original Tune. TPS may need calibration as well or did you calibrate that already? And obviously you new GM coolant sensor as well. The deeper I dig into your Copy and Pasted Tune the more anomalies I seem to be finding. That's another problem with using someone else's tune. You don't know what hardware is on their car. I'll send you a PM in a bit. I think an online Remote Tuning session may be in order.
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One thing that is bothering me is that it ran ( although badly ) with the Trigger Offset set to 240. And you synched the Timing to 20 BTDC. Is that correct? Now it's synching at a 10 BDTC at a trigger offset of 375. That doesn't make sense. It should have synched at 250 degrees.... if the original figure was correct ( Plus 10 degrees over 240 trigger signal because you're delaying timing another 10 degrees. Still can't understand why that Trigger angle changed so much... from 240 degrees to 375. Outer timing ring on damper could be slipping, or you did something wrong. Borrow another timing light to make sure your's is not faulty So, lets go back to basics tomorrow and check a couple of things. Please do this first time you get to work on the car again. 1: Pull the 4 pin wiring connector at the Dizzy. That will disable injectors and Ignition. Pull all the plugs. 2; Bring #1 up to TDC. Confirm that you are on compression stroke and not exhaust stroke. Don't know if you use this tip, but you can stuff your finger in the plug hole and feel the air coming out when piston is nearing TDC on the compression stroke. Stop just short of TDC and rotate final degrees by hand and look at Timing marks on damper. ( That's why you take all the plugs out. To make the engine easier to turn by hand ). I like to confirm EXACT TDC by sticking a long thin screwdriver in the plug hole and have it touch the piston top as the piston is just approaching TDC. You will feel the piston come up, stop, then go back down. Halfway through the pause is TDC. You want to confirm TDC by piston stop. The front damper is a two piece separated by a rubber damping material. These damper are 40 years old now, and quite often the outer ring will slip. That will throw your timing marks out and drive you nuts. If the outer ring has slipped, you will have to send it out to get rebuilt. Let us know what you find. 3: Assuming everything lines up right, go to the Dizzy and note where the #1 spark plug is on the cap. Take a Black Sharpie and make a mark on the distributor body . Now remove the dizzy cap and see where the rotor is pointing. It should be lining up pretty darned close to the #1 matk you just made on the Dizzy housing. If it's not lineing up close, you have a problem withe the spindle shaft installation. If a problem, take a picture and post it up. 4: If everything OK in step #3, rotate the crank pulley backwards till timing pointer is at 25 BTDC. You may not have a 25 degree mark on your timing tab or pulley, so just measure the distance between marks with some vernier calipers or some other fairly accurate device. File or scratch a mark at 25 degrees. Now go back and see where the rotor is in relation to the index mark you made on the dizzy body. Loosen the two small dizzy mounting bolts on the bottom. Rotate the Dizzy body so that the rotor tip is centered on that mark. Tighten the mounting bolts. 5: Because you have physically moved the Dizzy, you will have to go back and recalibrate your Trigger angle by a few degrees. Lock the Timing table at 10 degrees and go through the trigger angle setup procedure. You shouldn't be off by more than a few degrees. Congratulations, you have now learnt how to " Phase a Rotor " to a Dizzy cap. 25 BTDC close to the mid point of your timing spread. The idea is to get the rotor centered at the halfway point between minimum running timing and maximum. So that's going to be approximately 40 - 15 /2 = 12.5 degrees. 15 + 12.5 = 27.5 degrees... but 25 is close enough. 6: While you are at it. Confirm that the HT leads on the Dizzy are in the correct order. Rotor rotated CCW. Firing order is 1 - 5 -3 -6 -2 - 4. Double check it.
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Morgen... can you tell me what Ignition Coil you are running on your car? Thanks. May still be an issue with Coil dwell, depending on what ignition coil is on the car.
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Can't read logs through Mega Log viewer for some reason. Keep getting error messages. Too many fields selected. Note. When using composite logger you should be able to select what fields you want to Log. don't leave them ALL selected. That overloads the program. Want to see Synch logs and Crank Trigger logs. When you save them please change the names. Default is date and time and it hard to sort out what is what. Re-name them SynchLog1, SynchLog2, Trigger Log1, TriggerLog2 etc, etc etc
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Gonna be away for a while. Back in a few hours. Keep us up to date.
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Should be right. Now go back to the Ignition Decoder wheel and change the timing to " Use Table. Burn and Cycle ignition. Does engine run now? One question on the MS ECU wiring. where is the main 12 v lead connected to? It cannot be connected to the battery on any other constant on circuit. Main ECU 12v feed is supposed to go through a relay, that is turned on and off by ignition. ECU has to have all power cut to it to save some settings.
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Check your ignition switch wiring. There is a crank position and a run position. The two 12V circuits are separate. If you've only connected the Start circuit to power your MS that could be causing the failure when you release the key to RUN. The factory ballast resistor has two hot wires connecting to it. One is hot when cranking. and One is hot when running. Connected together at the ballast resistor, they are combined. But if you separate the wires or remove the ballast resistor the 12 v circuits are separated.
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OK that's good. So ignore all the stuff I mentioned about changed the Spark Dwell. Yeah... my body doesn't Spark as well as it used to either. Just a note, that may possibly save your life down the road. If you ever check spark on a CDI box, use a proper spark gap checking tool. NEVER use your hands. CDI boxes have more than enough voltage and AMPERAGE to stop your heart cold!! If for some reason you do have to check for spark with a CDI box ( on the road for example ) Only hold the HT lead or screwdriver stuffed in end of lead with your right hand. Keep your left hand folded behind your back ( Like in an arm bar hold ) and never let your left hand ground out to the car. This is an old trick that my dad taught me when he was a TV Tech for RCA. If you get a discharge through your body, the electrical flow will go down your right arm and right side of your body. Usually exiting through your right leg and foot. If you are holding the HT lead in your left hand or the left hand of your body is grounded the elctrical flow goes down your left arm and straight through your heart. Was checking a Crane Hi-6 CDI box with LX-92 coil, when I got lazy and just used a screwdriver to check spark. Fortunately I remembered Dad's advice and held screwdriver in right hand ( left hand behind back ) while buddy cranked car. Crack!! Crack!! Crack !!! Zaaaaaaap! Got gap out to far and electrons decided it was easier to go through the insulated plastic handle of the screwdriver and through my body to ground. All I remember was a brief scream... I saw stars and lightening.... and when I woke up I was thrown 3 feet from the car. Both of my legs were in spasms as well as my right arm. My right arm and right leg ached for several days. There was a black burn mark through my thumb. Mu buddy thought he had killed me. He said all of a sudden I screamed, my body went rigid as a pole and then I kinda launched myself into the air ( Thighs spasmed ). If I had been holding that HT Leda in my left hand, or my left hand/arm was touching the car... well I wouldn't be typing this today. Your post reminded me of that day. It's etched into my mind. Thought I'd share and pass it forward. Do the same please.
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Yeah... send us a data log of the Sync Errors and Trigger Log while cranking. May as well throw in a Tooth log as well. Do you have any Noid lights for testing the injector pulse. These are really cheap. Usually only a couple of bucks at Napa or Autozone. Did you get a JimStim with your MS ECU? This is a test simulator for the MS. Can uncover a lot of tricky problems.
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MerloZ ( what's your real name ? I'm Richard ) . There is also a slight possibility that something got corrupted in the .msq files when they were being downloaded either at your end or my end. I copied your original Tune you posted here, then corrected the errors in the Fuel Calculations and modified the maps. Nothing " should " have changed that would affect it not starting. But you never know with Windoze. As a last resort, load up your original tune that ran crappy and see if it tries to start. However, it's more than a coincidence that the car died with that tune as well and has never run since?? Is that correct? Could be a hardware issue. Do you have any logs from when it was running? Even if it was running crappy?
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Yes, I noticed that as well in post #49. I'd like to see some Trigger logs and Synch error logs. MerloZ, can you try running those? They are in a drop down box for logging types. I think you've lost your Trigger and Synch signals completely, Thta would explain the injectors not firing. Chcekl the spark at coil lead. I'm betting you have no spark either. Check your trigger wiring for any bad connections or grounds. BTW all grounds from the ECU should be to the engine block or cylinder heads. Normally sensor grounds all go back and ground through the ECU. Any sensors that use a separate ground ( not back thru ECU ) should bge grounded to the same point on the engine as the ECU. This is called a " Star " ground and keeps the ground loop as small as possible. This reduces electrical noise. All the sources in your data log look to have a lot of interference and noise.