tube80z

Cool additions. I was looking at some similar models too then a friend bought some and I wonder how often I'll do this versus stop by his shop. If you don't mind my asking what drove the purchase decision in your case?

Yes, on my old F2000 and a friends FA car. What kind of floater are you using? Is the floater also sprung or is that mounted solidly and only the disk floats? If you're using bobbins those should allow for a little of each. There's also the t-nut style and fancier stuff when you go up in dollars. I've had both bobbins and t-nuts and on each they were torqued to spec and not safety wired. Did any spec come with the new hardware? I can give you my advice but since it's 25 to 30 years old I'm not sure you'd want to trust it Prepare to Win claims 0.002 to 0.004 radially and 0.006 to 0.008 axially. When putting these together I'd check the hub, then with hat mounted, and finally with the disk mounted. The floater to floater plate will wear over time and you need to make sure none of the floaters get too loose. That's about all I remember except for having to crack open PTW for actual numbers. Hope that helps, Cary

I was going to do a lot of replies but I'll just distill my relationship with data and how I've found it useful or not useful if that's the case. I mostly autox and hillclimb, but I help friends at circuits and have been exposed to really high levels of DA through my professional work. I've taken a ton of data classes over the years like Claude Roulle's optimumG training, John Block's excellent data courses, a number of race engineering vehicle dynamics seminars, etc. I also have an excellent collection of well-used books into what's needed. For me this is something I like and enjoy learning more about and digging into. For a lot of people this is considered too technical and all they want to do is drive and have fun. If you fall into the latter category you can quit reading :-). Please keep in mind this reply is for people with older cars that don't have CAN/ODBII. The single most important thing you can do is to keep records. At the minimum you want to record the course, lap times, basic weather info (warm dry vs wet cold) time of day/date and what needs to be fixed so you could drive better or make the car faster. If you have an event or option to do practice or fun runs you can use those to make changes and then see if that helps or not. How to make easy adjustments to your car to figure things out could be its own thread. It also important to get pictures from the event where you can see your car loaded up in a corner as well as those that are faster than you or in the same class. There's a lot that can be learned from these photos. And ideally have someone take video of the same cars and if possible use a tripod so you can tell what are and are not trying to see if the car is hopping or the camera operator(phone owner) had too many lattes. These days almost everyone has a camera and most of these also capture video and those get shared on social media, which makes it easy to collect this info. One really cool trend that I think helps is the emergence of many packages that merge data and video. There are now packages that exist that let you use nothing more than a GoPro camera as a data logger and you can get some very basic info. As @Ben280 mentioned for autox there's solostorm, garmin's catalyst, Aim's solo, Apex Pro, phone apps, etc. There's no right answer for what is right for you. I would say it helps if you have the same thing as other people and you have a way to sync the data to video. The latter is extremely important if you want to know why a run was better or worse. The hard part is getting feedback on what you need to do to improve/go faster. For autox it's impossible to read a dash on most courses, but a green or red graphic or LEDs is something you can see if this is important to you. I can also tell you that many apps that use GPS as the main source of data often fail when hillclimbing. Here in the PNW a number of events are remote (no phone service) and have full growth over the road so no GPS. Circuit lapping (HPDE, races, time attack, etc.) is often where you'll see the mid-range systems used. It's still possible to use a number of the same autox systems they usually don't capture enough data. These are where you normally see the squiggly lines that make some people so excited. The good news is the low end has been pushing the middle tier options to include more video capabilities. My experience here is mostly with Aim systems and some of the older Race Technology systems (like the one @clarkspeed has that @JMortensen should buy :-)) If you're just looking to get better and do HPDE then the garmin catalyst and similar competitors will be helpful. With any of these systems the challenge is how to use the data to get better. In autox you don't have much time between runs so any analysis has to be fast, which a few of these systems are better at. For circuit racing if you're a one-man show then you often have a lot of prep between runs and data still needs to be quick but you will have a little bit more data to you should look at like engine/car health. And above these are truly fancy systems that often have a single person looking after them and helping with the analysis. I'm not going to mention these as there are probably 5 people that would be interested. So if you're still hanging in there here's what I think will be the most helpful. Starting out and I want to get better (most basic system) 1. Video pointing out of car that captures run and the main driver controls 2. Second video source capturing feet on pedals (or the BS on being flat in that corner show) 3. Speed captured against distance travelled (not time). This is important for comparisons. 4. Lateral & longitudinal acceleration. Consider adding steering, and brakes to the above list. On the brakes side it can be done one of two ways. You can look at the pedal movement and/or you can add in brake pressures. If you go for pressure make sure you are measuring caliper pressures and not master cylinders if you use a proportioning valve. This will give you a system you can use to learn to go faster. If you are thinking about doing any of this it pays to educate yourself on youtube or take a class about the system you have. A few of the companies offer webinars and paying a couple hundred for a course can put you years down the road from what you'd learn on your own. Unless you have a friend that is into this and can help. Being this is hybridZ there's still one important topic we need to discuss. @Ben280 mentioned additional sensors and the costs associated. I have some great news. You can use stuff from a JY for a lot of this and it's just a matter of calibration that you need to do. Here's a handy list. For distance (shock pots, steering, throttle, brakes -- you can use a throttle position sensor. When using with shocks, steering, or other linear source you will need to create a linkage that rotates the sensor. RC parts often are very useful. For pressures you can use JY sensors (Bosch) from any of the newer cars that have ABS. There are a lot of cars using these today. You can also get another cool part called an IMU. These are often used as part of the vehicle stability systems that all new cars are required to have. Time to stop until there's more interest. More later ...

My friend has an EP car and they raced a dual-disk Tilton all year and we measured the disks and floaters after a couple of events and they had hardly any wear. It raced all year and had some wear on the floaters but was still in spec to be used. He then moved to a 4.75 triple disk. It's really cool to hear an L6 rev like a superbike. The EP car did have a dog box in case that matters and it's driven like Jon mentions using small stabs to get moving from a stand still. Quickest way to kill it is try and drive it into the trailer. I've seen that done a few times.

On your button clutch are you using the rally disks? I converted my 3-disk quartertilton (yes mix and match parts) to a 2-disk rally version. We have a local CP guy using one behind a 377 LS with a dog box and he's been driving on it for a year and a half at autocrosses and hillclimbs. I think Jon may have a similar setup or perhaps the grabbier metallic disk version.

I'm looking at the new BTR rocker arms and shaft mounting kit, https://briantooleyracing.com/btr-ls3-shaft-rocker-kit.html. They use stock style rockers that I'm looking to upgrade to their new rockers.

Always happy to burn other peoples money

I don't think you'll gain too much going down this road. If you start tilting the engine you don't have much room until the balancer hits the steering rack. Even with my motor brushing the firewall I still have little clearance on the motor front drive. Another option I have seen on some of the GT cars is they use a much longer transmission input shaft and have a spacer between the bellhousing and the transmission. This wasn't done so much for dropping the transmission but to move the main weight back and help the car rotate faster. The main problem Is the height of the input shaft. If the transmission could be rotated or turned upside down you can drop a lot more. The problem is the mounting tabs at the front of the transmission. This is why I was thinking of using the spacer because the transmission side of the spacer doesn't have same problem. So now you can drop a little more. Still not easy to pull all this off and no over the counter parts you can use unless you happen to find one on ebay or some other auction site. Another crackpot idea that came to me is to faux convert this two-shaft transmission into a three-shaft version with a low input shaft. You can buy these if you have an extra $20K sitting around. I think the way Ben is spending he'll probably do that next year :-). All kidding aside, you could do this and make a drop gear setup that would mimic have a quick change rear end. I think you might even be able to use normal quick change gears. That's a lot of custom parts but this is HybridZ after all.

My bad, it's actually a powerbond crank damper. It's SFI certified and is 25% underdrive. I picked the small diameter balancer for the under drive but it gave me more room for the rack housing. It's similar to https://www.competitionproducts.com/PowerBond-25-Underdrive-Race-Series-Harmonic-Balancer-for-Chev-LS-Gen-III/productinfo/PBDPBU1117SS25/. It used to be $100 but now seems to have gone up to $225. There are some cheaper versions you can still find for a little over $100. I think I got mine on sale from Summit or maybe Jegs. The three bolt spindle drive will bolt to this balancer and that's a key to make it work. By the spindle used and save $$. Here's an example of a new version from Allstar https://www.ebay.com/itm/384486498045?hash=item59852e5efd:g:M0MAAOSw3MVhhqTS&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8F4bqIC%2BDvZQgMzlOkkjSXdk13YtepU0NwS6lsxh8c1jGteULvFYFK0POgUlEJYyAAbUIOa9QGKnFqTNIdbmIzoCfmcVTQM1zRSn51mCqTO0ESfd7pnWHuJuOZUDfZ8TzzEaDlY%2F3iE%2FouAqdwJ1S3bEumCbujZcqdyCjCtEjZW9ofVG9qwi%2FIwXGfPJEh5%2B3insi5NOnKiVIcWEAZVaP9WyCURR2xMuddMniRxgjToxq0Wrwx38Um00cFo2jsLW7tYRMkSZ58MjEeyFHBE8ejMerz96yBbUHvs1894%2FQcFgps8U5irwMKwrPQnnFqyFkA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7SVnvPoYA. These usually come in a couple different styles and you need to pick one and stick with it. There's the keyed version and the other is pinned design. Here's a cool version built by CV and you'll find a lot of variations similar to this from Nascar teams, https://www.ebay.com/itm/363954963537?hash=item54bd680451:g:I2MAAOSw~0hjBB6Q&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoF1hs1m6he7XtSjsk64H%2Fecpd7DwTU0f65uRR%2FZE0WO0lsEjOEc3L5j4Dv8dQTn0RJqER%2BGlrI1Qs4HLULORZaqbAdVDI9U3ZWzwoM6aIX6mWDXkXUPnbghc9bWtpoPSinTPWMDM1PhrgX8I0e0YZ7wZDmHPtK%2FmbOaxq1Oi3MaIOxk4djBidcbE0u0tpGqJ2dirj3u5dMETsVecA6gdvAY%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR_DJj_PoYA. For the clutch you can buy these used and convert from a 3-disk to a two disk by replacing the friction disks with a thicker cerametallic versions. If you compare the stack heights between these versions you'll see what you need. The clutch you pick doesn't matter but from here on it will. When you get a LGC bellhousing they will mount the reverse starter so the ring gear either needs to be on the crank hub or can be mounted to the clutch cover. You'll need to use a hydraulic throwout bearing that is for the bellhousing you get. Tilton or Quartermaster are slightly different in one often uses a 3-bolt mount and the other is 4-bolt. For the LS engine you'll can pick the Chevy or Toyota bellhousings as both will mount up. Quartermaster: https://www.ebay.com/itm/195030378315?epid=2168467634&hash=item2d68b7674b:g:mEQAAOSwPHRidCrI&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsK%2BT7IHloyA4QBuQKYVTxqDpEq3Y2f4R%2FqID3jYexvxRteyr6veiJL5h5cdAJdLT3LirTM5snf%2BpHpsNev02ocsnUVSRfnwa%2F4L83Li%2BVwP0F%2F7RZNk8gq%2FpLQNRFj6%2B3yGMW9kTZ0bh97uBpfepvl9oPyGZkSdb2kT1GRGtzGBKWd%2Bn9nVir0vYRHT59uv%2Fi6UtTe9l5E2y5HXzS%2FklmCtgJe19EpZI7DFrikO1qo%2Bb|tkp%3ABk9SR9SR0PToYA Tilton https://www.ebay.com/itm/185468160405?epid=803202272&hash=item2b2ec38995:g:kkAAAOSwvYdirI3s&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsI%2Bt4O5%2FXxC7Kh87PPstWD5xxiHUwioLilbefIFNBDpAPTZKJ8dM2SuvgeWjSOa%2BUpFCeqpNMbRMOXKFxKXpS2mP6VkrNjH8G1ZVfqYXIuAIhUwYSUhsgZgHfZqvK6XG8KTkJS4%2FM%2BMSGX6oBJUONKYKgmLeBWkE9FZSUVBZSz%2BhMLVzMOEDgT%2BNUo7SUFYDVvlIzPqztQ3%2BHhgNaMK67w9nzuKhbvYDLRr4rRaxsZ3V|tkp%3ABk9SR9SR0PToYA In case you're curious the entire flywheel, clutch, and cover weights about 13 pounds.

I have a dry sump for my LS engine. I did this setup on the cheap using mostly recycled Nascar parts and have a few pointers to pass along. I saved a ton of money on the drive system. Most people opt for the ATI damper ($495) and special hub ($125) that has the belt behind the damper. This is a great setup but adds to the cost. Instead, I used a Aussie CAT damper ($100) and bought a used BBC pulley drive ($25-50) that mounts to the CAT damper. This places the dry sump belt in front of the damper rather than behind like the ATI version and is how the pumps intend to be mounted. This is a common mounting method used by both Chevy and Ford. You'll find a ton of drives on eBay and I bought from a Nascar supplier of used parts. Mine comes from Hendricks Motorsport and included ARP studs for the damper and 12-point jet nuts. It also included a 24-tooth pulley and looked like it was never used. Most of the Nascar parts are based on an HTD belts rather than a Gilmer. I went for a 50% drive reduction on the pump (another eBay part). For the pump, I ended up winning two Auto Verdi pumps (roots blower type $600 for both) in both 5 and 6-stage configurations. The lines that came with each won't work for me but I'll re-use the fittings as they are special for the Auto Verdi pump. Pumps have increased in price but are still much less than a new one. I have about $250 in BMRS AN lines and fittings and will be able to do the entire car and my street car project too. A lot of the Nascar AN lines are Brown and Miller (BMRS) or the lightweight Aeroquip variety. You'll need to pick a brand and stick with it as the hose diameters are not interchangeable. I chose BMRS because the AV pump came that way rather than anything else. I scrounged around for BMRS hoses that had replaceable ends that allowed me to use the AV pump side and a screen pickup, which is needed on the roots/rotor style pumps as they don't handle debris very well. The other plus is you can take apart crimped BMRS hose ends and reuse them by carefully removing the crimp ring and then getting them re-crimped using a new ring. I bought some super long dash 16 and 12 hoses so I can mount the tank at the rear and send the scavenge lines to this. I'm using a 5-gallon tank that I'll fill partially fill and see how it works. I also have a smaller 3-gallon that I picked up later that I may use if the 5-gallon isn't cutting it. The oil supply then leads to the water-to-oil heat exchanger and then goes into an AN fitting for the LS block. I can find the part number for that part if you'd like. I went for a cheap steel version rather than alloy. It bolts into the driver's side of the block where the current plug sits. I was originally going to use a CX dry sump pan until a friend bought one and had to change how it was made. The stock one is highly overpriced and fits like crap. You can easily make a similar pan from a stock oil pan that you partially cut the sump out (Camaro pan for me). and weld a new bottom on. You'll then need to make a channel to be the low point for the oil or just make the floor of the pan aim down towards the pickups. And that's a copy of the CX version for a lot less. You can probably do the same thing with the truck pan but I've never seen one close up. I should mention I went to all this trouble to have rock solid oil supply to the engine and less worry. But more importantly to drop the motor about 3 inches compared to stock Camaro mounting. I'm using a 7.25-inch Quarter master rally clutch (2 thicker discs but a standard 3-disc item when stacked). This was also courtesy of some Nascar team and was almost new. The starter rear mounts from the bellhousing and it will require some massaging of the tunnel. I have essentially the same transmission as you. Oddly the gearbox is the part that ran into ground clearance problems before the engine. I still could drop the latter another inch and have room. So how much did all this cost? About $1200 all in. Some parts have gone up but Nascar is changing things this next year so I expect to see some extra parts flooding eBay. You can probably do this for $1500 to $1800 very easily. If you price out an ARE 5-stage setup you'll find they are a lot more expensive. One thing I forgot to mention (actually two) is that the pump will draw a massive vacuum if you get it into its working range. You will need an air bleed to manage the internal engine pressure and high vacuum seals. There is one expensive part I bought but did not include in the total. It's the Russell air bleed/backfire prevention unit and is around $400. I don't need a separate breather/catch tank as that came with the 5-gallon tank and is mounted off the side. The part I haven't finished is the mount but it will be a spacer off the front motor plate that I'm using. I'm using this to build a bulkhead across the strut towers and the bottom will connect to the crossmember and its braces. My low ground clearance bellhousing (LGC) came with a really interesting machined bulkhead for allowing AN hose to pass into the firewall but stay attached to the engine when you pull it so you don't have to remove any lines and you have Wiggins connections at the firewall. I still have to finalize how some of the lines will run and where I want the oil heat exchanger. I'm seriously looking at moving the radiator to the rear of the car so I can close off more of the nose for downforce although that decision may come back to bite me. I'm running the manifold on backwards and pulling in air from what's left of my cowling. I would recommend you pin the damper as you don't need it spinning on you. The tools to do this are pretty cheap and it's really easy to do (says someone who hasn't done it :-)) Cary

You could add autosport connectors to the Notec to mess with people even more.

I used to think all 3D-printers were only good for making figurines. Once your eyes are opened to what they can really do and how much then can help with one-off parts you wonder how you missed this. Or at least I do. Love the updates Clarke.

My advice is to keep high-pressure air out of the underside of any surface. That's why you often ducting the front radiator adds so much downforce compared to a lot of other mods. In the fender example I'd do what Jon said and flat plate the back of the light bucket and use that as your air scoop. Then run a replica inner wheel liner and call it good. I don't think EP offers enough scope to allow for s-flaps or doing an inner bucket style liner. Cary

One thing I'd advise is if you decide to use alarms in your data system/dash to auto shutdown that you create a dual-channel alarm strategy where you have two sensors or another way to back into the data for a sanity check. Over the years I've seen far too many races lost when a team stops the car and finds out either the sensor failed or a wire fell off or was destroyed with heat. Fire suppression is another area where this strategy is handy. It's great to have an onboard system but also have access to a handheld one can often put out the fire. The onboard systems generally don't do this as they are mostly intended to buy the driver time to bail out.

Have you considered the LV3? It's 3/4 of an LT5 DI motor and 100 pounds lighter than the LS. Scoggin-Dickey has a cam that gives 360 HP and 365 ft-lbs. of torque. BTR are supposedly working on a cam package that will go over 400 HP. Cary

Unless you want to run at the pointy end of EP I'd personally take that penalty. It also depends on how much your car weighs. I've seen people pay stupid amounts of money for pointy end solutions on cars that never will make weight. So unless you need to ballast to get to legal weight I'd use decent brakes that you aren't having to rebuild between days or race weekends. The time you save can be put into better use like reviewing your race data, planning in the next change to try, etc.

Brakes will be the hardest thing to make work. My friends used the S130 vented discs and front calipers to try and help with temp and get a bigger pad. In the end those required a bendix pad that worked at very high temps and as much air as can be sent to the disk and caliper. The rotors had to be cryo treated or they were throw away items after a weekend or two of races (buy good quality versions). When cooling down after races or practice I would use blowers and turn the wheels if you can. On the rears they used disks and a wilwood calipers and a lot of ducting. You're going to have knockback and all you can do is minimize it. If you can, float the rotors on hats. I'd also use bearing spacers and make sure you check all the tolerances with the bearings (REM finish them) as those and the spindle flexing will be a big factor in knockback. Make sure you brace the struts. On the wheel side I'd test their stiffness to lateral force. The stiffer the better for their weight. The stiffer wheels will work with slightly less camber. I'm sure I'm missing some of the tricks that were used. EP sucks when it comes to brakes on the S30s. Good luck and have fun. Cary

I'll let my friends that race in GT-2 know they are doing it wrong For a street car, you don't need flares for most of the tire/wheel combos being discussed. One thing that's important to think about is how long will tires be available for your combo. I used to think 17s were needed to have an assortment of tire choices and now those are getting used less often. As much as I hate the look of 18s on a classic Z I'm thinking that may be my best option for my street car. I can tell you from personal experience it's not a lot of fun to have that perfect set of wheels you found for your ride become rather expensive conversation pieces because you can't find the tire sizes you need.

You can attach the wipers or just the posts without needing everything else hooked up. Personally, I'd 3D print a piece that pops into the hole. Counter point is how do you clean stuff off your windshield while driving? Or am I the only guy that hits bugs that splatter to the size if a small saucer?

A couple of thoughts. The cable is a push-pull morse type and you can get those in almost any length and perhaps cheaper than accusumps' versions. Don't worry about length as you can find just about anything you want these days. I really don't understand their bracket at all. Why wouldn't it by attached to the accumulator body. For the air you might think about using some AN hose or the cool plastic air bag/brake hose to more conveniently mount where the gauge and the charge port is. As it is pictured above you have a gauge on the end of some fittings and that can vibrate and potentially fail, although that's not guaranteed. Cary

I found I needed to change the rear toe-link design from left-right threads to using different thread pitches as it was super sensitive when adjusting. I planned for but never made it far enough to change this all over to shims. I wanted a faster at the track way to make changes that didn't involve needing a lot of precision and had to be repeatable. I noticed most of the pro teams and car designs from 2000 on starting using that method instead of left-right threads. Your 3D printed tool reminds me of the flag alignment system I've seen some of the formula car guys use. It mounts over the top of the chassis and uses that to establish center. Measure camber, caster, track this way. Flip 90 degrees and measure toe. Much quicker than strings to setup and make adjustments.

Looks vintage to me. It should be interesting to see if they allow it. I'll look through some of my really old photos to see if I happen to have any pictures of this done in period.

Hi Clarke, Can you get away with a toe-link system in historics? If you can then I'd suggest the low friction mounting of the ARBs. I also use Susprog3D. I can remember my weekend of 16 hour days thinking all I have to do is measure this thing and it should take what, 4 hours max :-). I'm a hopeless optimist when it comes to estimating how long it takes me to do anything. BTW, I ordered this book in case you want a review or recommendation https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/3658351993/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 based on favorable feedback from the advanced data aq group on FB. Some good nuggets come from that in case you aren't already a member. Cary

You can also glue them in. Weld the nut to the fender washer and then glue that into the car using any of the newer panel bonding adhesives that are used in modern cars. No shrink/stretch, allows for some small gaps, seals the entire surface from water getting behind it, and won't mess up any paint or lead to increased corrosion down the line. Just a thought.

Another idea depending on the rules would be to vent the inner fenders and put some large section screen on the holes so rocks don't get stuck on top of the manifold. Usually the wheel wells are low pressure and should help manage the radiator air. Spats or sides to the airdam will also create more low pressure. Done right this will reduce the lift and make the car faster in a straight line. if you stand in front of the car you shouldn't see any of the tire tread area. If you do it needs to be covered.