Wonderful rant about college

[SHO-Z]

The way it is set up is if you have an Engineering Technology Degree from an ABET apporoved program you have to wait until after graduation to take the Engineer in Training exam and then it is the same wait as for everyone to take the PE exam. A regular degree can take it during thier senior year for the EIT. I really used one book the PE Referance Manual. If you get a change look at one in the book store. You will see it is just basic, plug and chug formulas, math based. Also look on Half.com and pick up an older copy of the book, it explains a lot of your studies better than in the text books.

 

We had a young engineer working for us a few years ago from a major engineering college who graduated near the top of his class who could not calculate the pipe size required on an air line. All of his flow work was done in a wind tunnel. Show to me that he didn't have the basics.

[josh817]

Ahhh I had to play with webassign. It did the same thing to me. Don't be blown away when people try to make a pretty penny off of every last thing you do. Tuition here bumped up, financial aid cut back, and they stop giving you $100 worth of prints on your student account.

 

They announce in the school paper that they are making new parking spaces but reality is that they built one or two more parking garages, which are about 5 times the price of a regular parking pass ($130/year).

 

Then you start getting in some sophomore/junior level classes and you get to hear things like "lets admit it, we hate lecture, we'd rather do our research" from the professors. Which is unfortunately true. Then you wind up with some guy who doesn't speak English well, at all, not even close to Engrish, and you have to wonder what was the School Board thinking when they hired him. Hmmm research, the fact that he may have lots of impressive credentials, can't speak English? No problem! The school wants professors with publications and research capabilities, not teaching skills. The school gets its grants for the research, the professor gets his publications, everyone wins except the students; unless in the rare chance the professor cares about the students as much as his research. When you and 60% of the class drop because you don't want to fail, he just got 60% of that grading load off his plate, and more time to research or do whatever.

 

Sometimes, even that isn't true. I'm currently in a Measurements and Methods class. The professor teaches a 50 minute lecture, and that's it. You don't email him with questions, you don't turn your homework into him, he doesn't grade it, he doesn't do the labs; his TA's do all this for him. Yah, he gets paid to come in and lecture you in what might as well be a different language, with no text book for the class and the kicker is... you're the one paying him for it!

 

My favorite part is when teachers talk about their college experience, back in the 60's and 70's and like to make comparisons between then and now; because you know, things are just like how they were 50 years ago. I doubt the mindset and business skills are anywhere near where they are today.

 

You're a customer, and customer satisfaction isn't part of the business. Like a really bad infomercial "You need a college education to get somewhere in this world, we're helping you achieve that goal for a low low payment of $380/credit hour. BUT WAIT, there's more! Call now and you get free gym membership and access to study groups for math, science, and electrical. Parking pass, cost of books, cost of homework, cost of labs, cost of supplies, not included.COLLEGEEEEEEE WOOHOO"

 

 

 

 

By comparison, my time at the community college was a lot less gloomy. The price is $60/credit hour compared to UTA $360-$380/credit hour, you don't pay for parking pass because it's supplied since you're enrolled (imagine that), and they tried to keep using the same book for multiple semesters and courses! Physics 1 and 2, same book, Calc 1-3, same book. Different teachers but why the hell use another book right? Wow it all seems logical!

 

The education quality, hell... UTA is 6 times more expensive and I can easily say 6 times worse quality. Granted, their standards are lower and it's an easy grade for most classes... but the fact is that if I didn't know the material, I wouldn't have passed the class. The proof lies in most of the courses I took there, lets say Calc. 3. Went into the first test like an idiot, made a 50. That **** won't fly bro. I had to LEARN that stuff to get out of the hole I made so when people say "well sure you got the grade you were looking for but did you actually learn something or did they just hand it to you [snide remark about community college]." Here's the concept. At community college, the teachers are putting in more hours, and getting paid less, while not having research opportunities. Connect the dots, they're working here... for less pay... and have nothing else "better" to do except... Hey imagine that! Teach! Unless if you get someone who hates their job and their situation, they are there for you to learn.

 

The free parking... Parking was packed, no worse than UTA was. "Well we have to charge money to pay for security." That's a load of **** and BLOZ UP can vouch for that... stolen car yah? The "security" is there to distribute parking violations so they can make more money and I do have to agree, so they can keep retards from side swiping you because they parked facing the wrong direction. Weirdly, the community college has "security" too and weirdly, they do the same job.

 

 

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On the bright side, I'm in a pretty low spot of my college career too! We can be gloomy together. It'll be over soon enough if you keep pushing and damnit don't change to Women's Studies. Make friends (I'm bad at that), form groups, do your work together, and as my friend always lectures me "do what you have to do to make the grade". No, that doesn't mean be a butthole and cheat, it means if your professor is a retard and his phone coincidentally rings when you try to talk about that bad test grade, or he is never in his office during his hours, whatever reason... be there, outside his door, waiting for him. Hold those scaly conniving reptilian feet of his to the fire and get some answer. Or just brown nose your way through, that works too.

 

Lastly, perhaps it would help to get into this mindset:

College is all about playing a game and people want to see that you know how to play. They want to see...:

-that you brought yourself up from failing those classes

-that you can manage your time

-that you can keep up with a horrible schedule and get work completed

-that you can hunker down and get **** done under stress

-that when you have a problem you can either pull through or seek the necessary help to complete the task

>>> It's all about being able to live through pulling your hair out. Think of this game as if they're trying to screw you up, and you're keeping focused, jumping those hurdles like a pro. You are now Rambo, and Rambo doesn't make terrible movies about pus'ing out.

Edited January 26, 2012 by josh817

[Tony D]

You don't want to know what it costs for CC in CA... And as long as you're willing to write what you want on the admissions forms to satisfy their racial quotas that everybody swears doesn't exist you get your classes.

 

FYI I'm now officially 'Latino'...

[BLOZ UP]

I thought they, somewhere in CA, suspended affirmative action at one point--basing it solely off merit, and then minority registration went through the ... basement. Prop 109 or something like that.

 

And everyone cried, "you can't do that, that's discrimination!"

 

But they are right. Affirmative action is discrimination.

 

Anyway that's way OT.

[ktm]

The way it is set up is if you have an Engineering Technology Degree from an ABET apporoved program you have to wait until after graduation to take the Engineer in Training exam and then it is the same wait as for everyone to take the PE exam. A regular degree can take it during thier senior year for the EIT. I really used one book the PE Referance Manual. If you get a change look at one in the book store. You will see it is just basic, plug and chug formulas, math based. Also look on Half.com and pick up an older copy of the book, it explains a lot of your studies better than in the text books.

 

We had a young engineer working for us a few years ago from a major engineering college who graduated near the top of his class who could not calculate the pipe size required on an air line. All of his flow work was done in a wind tunnel. Show to me that he didn't have the basics.

 

 

This does not surprise me. I had a few young engineers working for me who could not tell me how to calculate flow in a channel (a very, VERY basic equation) or understand the limitations of the methods in the computer programs they were using to generate answers. Even worse was that they were using slope stability software without understanding a damn clue about slope stability! I quickly left that company knowing full well that they were always one project away from disaster.

 

 

The EIT is a joke. It is now called the FE (fundamentals of engineering) and changed in 1994. I took it (in 1994) hungover and without studying. Passed with flying colors. I took my PE 8 years ago (after a 3 year stint in China). I was the first one to walk out of the exam by a good 15 minutes. It basically determines whether or not you are breathing. Now the surveying and seismic (California) were a real test. I overheard some folks talking that they were there for their 4 or 5th time!

 

Like the old joke goes, what do you call a med school student who got Cs? Doctor. The same goes for engineering. Here is your diploma for participating and paying your tuition!

Edited January 26, 2012 by ktm

[josh817]

You don't want to know what it costs for CC in CA... And as long as you're willing to write what you want on the admissions forms to satisfy their racial quotas that everybody swears doesn't exist you get your classes.

 

FYI I'm now officially 'Latino'...

I see you waving that can of worms around waiting for someone to bait! Not doing it!

 

 

So tempted to though.

Edited January 26, 2012 by josh817

[suparman]

I am 3 semesters in to my college and carry 20 credit hours each. But last semester I had to take an art class and failed. Because A. I did not care that the Minoans made some sort of pottery with an octopus on it and B. We were told to give our opinion on whether or not it was art and apparently I insulted my teacher by saying " No any one can paint red and blue square's on paper." To many B.S. games and politics for me.

[josh817]

Hahahaha. What is your major? is it one of those "Engineer goes to hell; he has to attend a liberal arts course" moments?

 

I had to take an intro to architecture course... I never raged so hard in my life, looking at these houses built in the early 20th century that were ugly as hell and completely unusable. Built and preserved solely to.... look at? Beats me.

[suparman]

Sports business management, minor in business management. Hope to have a career in scuba Diving,Karts racing or NASCAR racing. Art was just a pre-req I put off because I have no interest in it. B.S. non the less

[Xnke]

This is the kind of crap that forced me out of school. I can't pay 9,670$ per semester of class, plus another 900$ of books, plus quit my job to go to class, pay another 180$ to park in one of 80 parking spaces in a 12,000+ student school, AND then come up with the money to eat, and put a house over my head.

 

I figure one day when I have a million dollars I worked my ass off to get, then I'll go back to school to get a job where the cash falls out of the sky at me.

 

Yes, I realize that ridiculous sheet of paper means one thing: you literally bought a degree. There is nothing "school" about college anymore.

[FlatBlack]

There is nothing "school" about college anymore.

 

Agreed.

 

Clepped [sp?] out of Comp 1 and 2 at LSU from my ACT scores, UA forced me to take them, even though I had "pass" credit for both, and a really high English ACT score...

 

Go to a Comp 1 class at a public University. I thought it was amusing how a student could be that dumb and be attending college, but as the semester dragged on, it was just scary/sad.

 

I was being re-taught things I had learned in Middle School - these people shouldn't even have received a High School diploma!!!

 

Kinser - keep the faith, my good buddy, you'll be fine. I didn't really get as frustrated as you are until my 3rd year. Stress kills, man. These are just hoops you must jump through to start a career. A Bachelor's degree is the new High School diploma, as sad as that is.

Edited January 26, 2012 by FlatBlack

[BLOZ UP]

I'm telling you, the problem are the middle and high schools. They feed really dumb people in to college, and colleges have to show "graduation rates" to get funding. So everything gets dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

 

My wife teaches freshman English. It's way worse than I thought. 90% of her students just expect to get an A for "trying". I assume because that's how it worked in high school. 10% of them are actually prepared and do the work correctly with a clue.

 

Yeah, I agree. A BA/BS degree is the new high school diploma.

[ModernS30]

I'm telling you, the problem are the middle and high schools. They feed really dumb people in to college, and colleges have to show "graduation rates" to get funding. So everything gets dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

 

My wife teaches freshman English. It's way worse than I thought. 90% of her students just expect to get an A for "trying". I assume because that's how it worked in high school. 10% of them are actually prepared and do the work correctly with a clue.

 

Yeah, I agree. A BA/BS degree is the new high school diploma.

 

I was actually talking about this with my mother the other day. I was like seriously, high school is a joke. It takes 13 years in K-12 to learn nothing. Literally you get like nothing that is really important. College, 4 years and you have a degree. Seriously, a college degree in 4 years, but a high school diploma took 12? To learn what? I'm so glad I took CC classes in high school because they didn't cost me a damn thing and they were actually somewhat useful.

 

The issue with K-12 schooling is everybody is worried about hurting somebodies feelings, there is way to much GAF. If the student doesn't want to hard and actually do the work and learn to pass their classes, they fail, that is how it is, that is how life is. If they are skipping all the time, sorry, you are no longer enrolled. Why waste the tax dollars on them? If you don't show up for work, hell probably once without calling in and having a real reason for not being there, and it better be a good one if you do, you get fired.

Edited January 26, 2012 by ModernS30

[josh817]

Anyone with a teacher in the family knows the dirty details. My mom use to teach highschool 20 years ago, she went to 6th grade for the past... I don't know at least 15 years.

 

I thought maybe it was just our location, Keller, kind of prissy. Absolutely not.

 

She literally cannot fail students. Knowing her, she probably tries her best to get you down to a C if you're an idiot. Students can fail assignments but failing the class is not allowed.... Yah, NOT ALLOWED. The focus is on the state test compared to actual material. Teachers USE to be able to make their own lesson plans, now they have to follow district guidelines on discussion topics and scheduling.

 

Then the emails she gets from parents... Holy smokes guys. "My child is making a B. She always made A's before this class." LOL not this class, buddy! The good ones are when the parents infer they want the grade to be handed to their child. My mom replies with "What grade would you like me to enter into the grade book?" Usually shuts them up.

 

This "new system" is what brought my mom to quitting or retiring depending on how you look at it.

 

 

As for getting a degree. I don't like the status quo. Dad always says "When I was in school, having a degree was a big deal." Like you guys already noted, now you just pay your dues, buy yourself a degree. I've contemplated doing a trade or "working my way up" without a degree but I'm half way through, I'm not just going to stop now. A decision like that, for me, would have to be made before I even started. I've heard from several people that did great things without a degree but ehhhhh I wouldn't want to test my luck. I've been lucky enough to have money set aside for my education, little by little since the day I was born; I haven't broken the $5000 debt mark yet. I'll probably finish with $10k-$15k if everything goes swell.

 

A necessary evil to buying my degree, but not my success. Heard this story too many times, your book smarts will only get you so far, your experience takes you the rest of the way and fortunately no one is buying that!

 

My wife teaches freshman English. It's way worse than I thought. 90% of her students just expect to get an A for "trying". I assume because that's how it worked in high school. 10% of them are actually prepared and do the work correctly with a clue.

That rage moment when you find out she's from Luxembourg and she's destroying you on your English paper.

Edited January 26, 2012 by josh817

[psdenno]

It takes 12 years in K-12 to learn nothing.

 

 

Actually, K-12 takes 13 years. Your point is well made.

Dennis

[ModernS30]

Actually, K-12 takes 13 years. Your point is well made.

Dennis

 

LMAO, yes, it does. :FacePalm:

 

Point well proven? 1+12=13 haha.

[Michael]

"Calculating the flow in an channel" is NOT a basic equation, unless one makes sweeping assumptions (laminar flow, circular pipe or usage of hydraulic diameter, etc.). But then the crucial piece of knowledge is knowing when to make those assumptions, how to defend/refute them, what they mean, and what are the error-bars. The groundwork for receiving that knowledge comes from formal education. The actual information comprising the knowledge comes from practical experience.

 

It is however largely true for a plethora of reasons that the BSE is the new "high school diploma", and graduate school is the new "college".

[Tony D]

One day I was at grandmas house reviewing my fathers report cards.

I noted he had several "F" marks, accompanied by a percentage scale from A to F.

 

75% constituted "F" Grade...

 

Hey, dad, that would be a "C" today.

 

My dad, a school Superintendent at the time considered that for a while and then said "You're right!"

 

To this date, all Field Technical Training I put on has a minimum standard to pass: 80%

 

We need people who can DO the work on their own, in the field. Not someone who looks good and smiles, that's what the sales department is for!

 

Speaking of training, I'm off in 2 1/2 hours to give two training schools on gearbox setup, overhaul, and failure analysis. Senior Engineer from our office is coming, and we think alike. We're tired of taking warranty orders from guys who are generating their own issues! Heads may roll. 3 of the 24 are "on the bubble" after the first round of testing late last year. This is "hands on" so we're dropping class size to 12, with at least three instructors meaning very close personal evaluation of skills.

 

How would you like me looking over your shoulder evaluating your work? LOL!

Edited January 27, 2012 by Tony D

[madkaw]

It's funny in my household how a college education affects all of us differently.

 

I don't have a college degree, some courses, but not close to any degree. I made 100K last year working in a union job. I not sure I could have made that much money with a degree--and I'm still not sure to this day what career I would have educated myself for. So in the end I think college would have been a waste for me.The ironic part of this is that my job allows me time to study sitting in motels, but I have no interest in doing that...

 

which drives my wife nuts, because she needs a degree and doesn't have the time to take courses-though she still does take a class every semester. Now what's funny about this scenerio is that she is next in line to be the Bursur at Indiana University. My wife is incredibly intelligent and runs circles around her fellow workers at the university, but has no degree. It is almost unheard of for a high level employee of a higher education establishment to not have a degree, but my wife does it. Her boss(the Bursur) hired her because of her ability-not her degree-but told her she needs to at least get her associates to make it look good. Now this coming from the Bursur at IU, who has been there 35 years...

 

then you have my daughter that is getting ready to graduate IU with a history major. What good does that college education do----well if you are in ROTC it gets you an officers job in the USAF. Better yet-your going to like this guys---a PILOTS slot in the USAF. My daughter wouldn't know an airfoil if it hit her in the head, but her college education got her a chance at this position--AND---ROTC paid for her education.

Don't get me wrong, my daughter is very bright and worked hard to get elected for such a prestigious position in the USAF, but did her degree isn't helping other than getting her in the door.

 

And then you take my son--well he's just 15, but I think his college will be paid for too since he swims like Mikle Phelps!!!!!!!

 

No moral to this story, it's just funny how life is in this regards.

[ZUL8TR]

LMAO, yes, it does. :FacePalm:

 

Point well proven? 1+12=13 haha.

 

Except for those of that were held back in K for a second year due to our age.

 

At least I made up for it on the other end and got out of HS early.