HybridZ Is Not Automotive 101

[RebekahsZ]

Hey, I used info on your exhaust a lot in building my car!  I went a little different way, but still did side-exhaust.  What you did and the pictures you sent were super helpful - thanks!  I appreciated all the detail you provided.

[TimZ]

Hey, I used info on your exhaust a lot in building my car!  I went a little different way, but still did side-exhaust.  What you did and the pictures you sent were super helpful - thanks!  I appreciated all the detail you provided.

No problem, and I'm glad it was useful to you!  

I don't mind helping out at all in most cases, but I guess I don't like the requests for the "list of parts", as though that was the big secret.  Like Tony said, there is no big secret, just a lot of work.  If its clear that you are going to use the info I'm glad to share, but this can often take a long time and a lot of effort to convey so I'm not so keen on sharing for bench racing purposes, if you know what I mean...

[johnc]

A family member who is an operator in SOCOM said that the most important thing in all the black ops stuff they do is to sit still, watch, and listen.

[Tony D]

What's in my profile?

 

JeffP is Underwriter's Lab... Especially when I'm around!

We way over tested the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX on the engine dyno, but the results were amazing!

[TimZ]

What's in my profile?

 

JeffP is Underwriter's Lab... Especially when I'm around!

We way over tested the XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX on the engine dyno, but the results were amazing!

Great!  Now I'll know where to send them the next time a request comes up!

[Heroez]

The510realm, a forum for the 510 crowd, has new members post an introduction before you can post at all. Admins look at your introduction draft and if it passes (very slack) requirements then it is posted in the forum for everyone to see. Then you can post new topics. Im a moderator at another forum. Each day without fail, there is something I do not like, a mistake, spam, etc. I was given the power to use my judgement in what I would tolerate. When it comes down to it, I let a good bit slide when it comes to new members. Sometimes I will just tell them to search, then lock the topic. Kind of like a public disgrace. I did that recently with a wheel fitment thread. Today someone asked where to buy a cheap timing light. Delete! Its tempting to hit the ban button, but I hadnt yet. If that guy asking how to shop for a timing light posts another stupid thread... He may be my first ban. If I used my instincts to ban and delete, hovering over the forums with an iron fist, I would greatly reduce the activity and likely be banned for being a forum Nazi. Very few new members are good additions. Eternally grouchy chest beaters. Too many religion and political comments are made by certain members that are not related. Agghk. Its a mess. Here its not so bad. Im no expert, but I have spent many years hands on type learning on different Z cars. Here I rarely post. If I do it is because I cannot find the exact info I wanted, want other peoples advice, or I am stuck and do not understand what I did wrong. I have to just accept the fact that Im going to look dumber than the old timers. At least Im not asking where to buy a cheap timing light.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Heroez

[240zphilly]

I understand John's (and others) frustration. However I also agree that having the FAQs pinned in their respected sections (as it was at one point) may deter some of the newbie questions. Ultimately without a screening process there's really no way to keep lazy people from posting simple questions and hoping someone has the patience to answer. I have been trolling a highly technical site that I refer to as "non denominational" in that it doesn't cater to a make or model but rather just going fast. As I reference it, I have six posts there and have been a member since 2003, because it is one of the many outlets I use to gain knowledge. I was trolling this site for years before I thought I could start an intelligent conversation here, much less help someone else with their Z issues. 

 

But that's just me, there are (as we know) a crapton of people who are not willing to read and be humble and learn. Another point from a previous page that I believe holds water is if this is strictly a top end technical site then "which of the MSA airdams looks coolest" should get flamed on. John sees this site as a place where highly skilled and experienced people in and out of the industry can talk advanced tech. It is just that. But if we want to grow as a community (or continue to grow) there needs to be a buffer of tolerance for newbs and newbie type behavior. 

 

There is a rules section I remember reading that stated something to the effect of search before you ask... Perhaps putting it in the user agreement and suspending or banning people for offenses is in order? 

[wesmc]

I lurk waaaaaay more than I post here.  John can certainly be short and abrupt but his info is good.  I sense his frustration.  I have been a wrench for many years but am brand new to my 240z and probably ask some dumbass questions.  He's been a bit short with me when I do.  I'll take that.  There are other admins here who need to get the eff over their rediculous selves and cut the petty self-important crap.  He's not one.  Nothing wrong with a ground floor guy trying to keep the site going in the way it was intended.

[RB26powered74zcar]

I lurk waaaaaay more than I post here.  John can certainly be short and abrupt but his info is good.  I sense his frustration.  I have been a wrench for many years but am brand new to my 240z and probably ask some dumbass questions.  He's been a bit short with me when I do.  I'll take that.  There are other admins here who need to get the eff over their rediculous selves and cut the petty self-important crap.  He's not one.  Nothing wrong with a ground floor guy trying to keep the site going in the way it was intended.

wesmc,

You will be shown the "eff" ing door here if you want to buck a moderator when asked politely to follow forum rules.

[kiwi303]

Maybe, if newbies can't browse to the FAQ forum, the login system can be altered that the first 20 logins drop the first timers into the FAQ forums instead of the forum index?

 

Sort of a pointed reminder that there is a lot of info available to read before posting inane questions already answered in the FAQ section...

 

 

 

 

No idea how viable that is to code however.

[Mikelly]

16 posts and you've come to this conclusion...  Interesting.

 

Here's the thing.  We created this site because we were hammered by the ZCAR community for "butchering" such "priceless treasures".  15 years later, we still have little patience for laziness, ignorance, and stupidity.  Some of us try to help, but honestly, sometimes when you know the info is out there, it gets tiring.

 

The comments about some of the mods are uncalled for.  If you have an issue with how a mod/admin has behaved, send a PM to John or Superdan.  Keep in mind that it takes a lot of effort to maintain a successful website.  These folks don't get paid for their efforts, and they do a damned good job.  They're also human and have bad days, just like you and I.  But honestly, 16 posts in?  Maybe you should post less and read more until you get the hang of it.

 

Mike "Retired co-founder" Kelly 

 

I lurk waaaaaay more than I post here.  John can certainly be short and abrupt but his info is good.  I sense his frustration.  I have been a wrench for many years but am brand new to my 240z and probably ask some dumbass questions.  He's been a bit short with me when I do.  I'll take that.  There are other admins here who need to get the eff over their rediculous selves and cut the petty self-important crap.  He's not one.  Nothing wrong with a ground floor guy trying to keep the site going in the way it was intended.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Mikelly

[Tony D]

"15 years later, we still have little patience for laziness, ignorance, and stupidity."

 

[Miles]

Mike

Tony

Administrators

Founders

 

If, after 15 years, you are still disappointed  with the types of people who join the site, change the rules to what you think is neccessary to select people who are a good fit for your vision of the site. Just honestly state on the website marqee and in the rules what the criteria is for membership: professional/experienced car builders, automotive techs, mechanics, engineers etc.  Discourage all others not to apply for membership.

[duragg]

I probably spend about 20x time searching Hybridz threadz than posting.  There should be a rating for Posts and Searches!

 

In truth, hasn't every single issue on a Z  been discussed 18 times over. Everything!

How much is really truly new?   Yet.. I read 10 threadz on the same damn thing and in between the lines, among the coal and fossils  I'll find a little diamond... that one little diamond. I'll cross refernce to what the FIAT guys are doing with Webers, or the Porsche guys with blowers and I might even see what the Suby guys are doing with R180s (but not likely).

 

In the aviation world we struggle on type-specific forums and groups to keep the quality up, yet run through enough new candidates to promote the best.

A forum called "Beechtalk" does a superb job of this.  VERY tight to the Terms of Use and zero tolerence to the decorum rules.

(Airplanes are aluminum so we have to be more gentle with each other.)

 

My problem is I have a WP, a veritible  "Mama's boy" and I want everyone to get along and have a good time like I am.  So I pick on CertainD members because I perceive them to be "mean", When they probably, most likely, by all means, (maybe) they aren't.  

 

But if we don't allow or or if we discourage posting of Old-Business there is a risk of squashing good information and new ideas and tricks and new angles on old problems which is the heart of Hybridz.

 

Tj

 

 

[BlackdogNY]

The last two post have been perfect.  Why not just close the site to further postings of a tech nature.  Let people post builds/pics/events etc. and leave the rest along.  You will never be able to stop the 'newbie stupid questions'(your words not mine).  Another opinion might limiting tech posting  to the few senior members that seem to so annoyed by all of this.  Not a perfect world, this could make a majority of people happier. HybridZ library.

[NewZed]

Some sites have a "similar topics" list at the bottom of every thread.  Essentially an effort-free search for the OP based on the words in the posts.  Maybe the site could be programmed to respond with an automatic reply with those search results.  A variety of snarky comments could be computer-generated for the amusement of others.  Maybe even with sound and video.  This would remove the personal tone of the "have you searched" replies from individual members, but still get the new member on the right path.  After a certain number of posts the auto-response could be turned off.

[johnc]

I don't think anyone needs a time-out or shown the door for posts in this thread.  And right now the site is an easy runner. 

[gunsaler111]

I have done my entire build over the last few of years from this forum! I asked very few questions because the information is here,10x over.You just need to take the time to pull out the good bits,and cross reference.And pay close attention to what the cranky old bastards say!

And to finish,Id like to thank you guys who take the time to post your how-to's ,experience, and knowledge,it has gotten me out of quite a few "dummy" moments!

 

[Tony D]

Miles:

I think the post does EXACTLY that!

 

There have been SEVERAL people recently who have stated in their posts "where is this written?" Or "It doesn't say anything about basic questions in the FAQ or Site Rules."

 

People who get REALLY butthurt that they are told they should read their FSM, or go to a 'basic skills' website.

 

Their sense of entitlement tells them this is 'mean'---they should be able to get their basic information HERE, because THEY want it.

 

I believe the point of this thread is to remind people there IS a basic level of expertise EXPECTED of people posting here, and that while EVERYONE HERE is willing to help, the PRIMARY reason we gravitated to THIS PARTICULAR SITE was we CHOSE to not be inundated with this type of basic question on a daily basis, or wade through pages of them to get one nugget that is worthwhile.

 

 

Nobody is saying you have to be a professional mechanic, nor engineer to JOIN. But like most of 'the old codgers" here, we EXPECT that, like WE had to do: keep silent until you have something to ADD in a constructive manner. As my Auto Instructor in High School would say "If you are going to ask a question, ask a GOOD question!"

 

This was the guy that had a box of nuts and spark plugs next to his podium and THREW THEM AT YOU if you "asked a stupid question"---his method, while a reason for the police to be called TODAY, back then was very EFFECTIVE in enforcing what he wanted you to do before taking up class time with your question: THINK FIRST FULLY! (Also, many times as you saw him slooowly reaching for his box of pain, you quickly rephrased your question into something different...with him quickly pulling his hand away, his frown disappearing and a big grin appearing as he said "Now ZAT ist a gud qvestion!") Rudy loved to get questions from kids that had involved answers. Because it gave him a chance to really show how and engine worked, or why it was important to grease this or that. But it was never a direct answer, it was always a corollary to another bit of maintenance. Something he stressed: You don't fix just the customer's complaint--you fix anything and everything you find when you are in there, or inform the service writer about it. Rarely are things as simple as most would have you believe, even in those days. The car was a system... 

 

Rudy was a big proponent that he HAD taught you all you needed to know (in Auto I), and if you just applied what you had  been taught, and THOUGHT about your question first---you would likely solve it yourself---and he viewed that as the teacher's job. His view was not that a teacher was some magic see-and-say where you pulled a cord and he spewed out answers. He saw a teacher's job as one that gave you be foundation to make your OWN answers. And his role after giving the initial instruction was to guide you in the path of thinking it out on your own, and not merely "giving you a frankfurter for lunch."  The box of pain was used less in Auto I than Auto II.... This is more like "Auto II"

 

It worked EXCEEDINGLY WELL for me. I have to think it works for others. 

 

Unfortunately, in these days of instant-gratification, such a philosophy is not welcome by many newcomers (and some old ones...)

 

It's not a matter of wanting to EXCLUDE anybody. I think the mods want anybody who wants to LEARN to be here and do just that.

 

But what they want is please don't waste the classes time with this.

 

 

(As a note, during my Auto II class, Rudy was saddled with a PC Bit of Social Engineering. The Administration had deemed that a "Special Needs" child was to be placed in Auto II. Skipping Auto I in it's entirety. [Philosophy was of a College Educated Faculty "What can it take to be a grease monkey?"] The reason was a CoOp Job existed but the prereq was the kid have taken "Auto II" --- Rudy, after class, on lunch, while we were in Lab....basically gave this kid the entire Auto I course [foundation] to get him up to basic speed or do that labs in Auto II... Rather than just flunk him out. I would like to think most here would take the same approach---they could give that extra effort on an individual basis, but not a group-basis, daily! In the long run, the kid failed Auto II. The first failure grade Rudy had ever given. It distressed him greatly "Just too much to learn in too short a time, if he had been here as a Freshman, and I had four years to work with this one...I know he could get it, it takes him longer. He will not be rebuilding engines, but he can do the LOF, he can do teardowns, many things, he is not useless!" What I did not know was for another three years, after school, Rudy was taking this kid in after school and continued his training. As I left for the USAF, that kid took his job on the LOF rack at the local Chevy dealership.) 

Edited January 31, 2013 by Tony D

[yellowoctupus]