A musician's therapist (The $300 Z)

[Zetsaz]

Routing fuel pump and a couple other things through the relays. The old style nissan fuel pump relay is no longer available so it's a good time to modernize the few relays that came in the efi car before one goes bad.

[seattlejester]

Fuel pump control, fuel injectors, spark, etc. The Leash one is really nice, and if I'm not mistaken has the smaller form factor high amperage relays and resetable fuses. Resetable fuses are real useful in the teething stages and even down the road if you don't travel with a fuse kit.

 

Edit: oops, yea what ^ guy said

Edited April 3, 2020 by seattlejester

[walkerbk]

I never understood why people complain about the old Datsun wiring that doesnt have relays and then when people replace the wiring, they use a harness without relays.

 

That is a very nice relay board. I am planning on linking a relay board into the speedway motor wiring harness (very similar to all the other universal ones but good reviews).

[Zetsaz]

14 hours ago, seattlejester said:

Fuel pump control, fuel injectors, spark, etc. The Leash one is really nice, and if I'm not mistaken has the smaller form factor high amperage relays and resetable fuses. Resetable fuses are real useful in the teething stages and even down the road if you don't travel with a fuse kit.

 

Edit: oops, yea what ^ guy said

 

Haha. No resetable fuses on mine, but the LED indicators will be very useful!

 

Will still take me a while to pair up everything. Pulled out my old wiring and trying to label things while I have it so I can removed stuff that is no longer needed and find things easier when it's in after doing the insulation. 

 

Will be a slower process than I hoped just based on how much time I'm having to spend in front of screens all day for teaching from home, but still much faster than a typical schedule since all my evening events for the rest of the school year are cancelled and I can't go anywhere. Doing what little bits and pieces I can when my brain isn't overloaded.

 

EDIT: OH! It will also be a nice chance to move away from the fusible links and wire them in the same place as the stock relay area. The 4 relay leash board takes up less space than a populated stock "relay" bracket one the 280z. Cleans up the engine bay, and modernizes things all in one go. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Zetsaz

[Zetsaz]

Got more motivation today after feeling more mentally recovered from the transition to online teaching. Currently in what would be our spring break, so I'm fortunately not stuck staring at screens all day. 

 

Mini projects included:

-More spots undercoated in the rear before the fuel tank goes in with the 3M stuff I've used

-Bent stainless fuel lines

 

The fuel lines are such a pain. I'd wondered how people get them so easily then realized most are on a 240z. I was placing them on stock location so bending up over the 280z sway bar creates more excessive bends that are tedious. Saved myself the trouble of routing to the exact stock locations in the rear which was adding to the complications since my feed and return are now at the top of the tank instead of in the center. Still in a good spot to avoid using more than 12"-16" of rubber efi line in each spot at most.

[Jboogsthethug]

Yeah man get at it! I will say, even on the 240z the fuel lines were a pain. They would've been easy if I took out the rear diff/mounts/etc. but with that all in there I had to guess a bit on angles and length of bends. It turned out all right though, definitely some margin room thankfully. I'm getting my rolll cage painted today so I'll have to upload some soon and we can keep this motivation moving!

 

[Zetsaz]

Dropping just the sway bar was helpful enough for me. I was okay with not routing things ALL the way to the top. Currently they're actually in a conventient spot to limit the length of soft line I'll need to use, but it's a good compromise to avoid uncomfortably having to reach way up high for too long if I need to disconnect before dropping the tank down the road. 

 

Made small bubble flares on the ends since I'm just running rubber efi hose. They're not perfectly level since I had to cut and correct, but I'm not worried about it since they're to help hold the hose on and don't need to be the perfect angle for sealed fittings. Was a little confused about how to go about that until I ready on a jalopy forum to just use a normal 45 degree double flare tool, but only go about halfway on the first step and ignore the second step (if you do a double flare your hose won't fit over the tubing). 

[Jboogsthethug]

Ah smart! And that's a good idea. I double flared -6AN fittings on mine (except for the last joint where teh tool stopped working for me and I'm stuck there until I buy a new tool ha). So are you done with the lines?

 

[Whitley_280z_2+2]

Yeah it is really difficult to get the bend around the sway bar area. It took us a few tries but eventually got it. Good stuff! 

[Zetsaz]

8 hours ago, Whitley_280z_2+2 said:

Yeah it is really difficult to get the bend around the sway bar area. It took us a few tries but eventually got it. Good stuff! 

 

Wow, yours look a lot neater than mine haha. That's actually close to where I ended mine! Mine go up about 6 inches more than yours for one more mounting point. 

 

9 hours ago, Jboogsthethug said:

Ah smart! And that's a good idea. I double flared -6AN fittings on mine (except for the last joint where teh tool stopped working for me and I'm stuck there until I buy a new tool ha). So are you done with the lines?

 

 

They're "done" in that they're bent and in place. Wanted to just keep making progress. I'll make the more permanent mounting solution later. I didn't want to be held up by tiny things that aren't essential to getting it moving.

 

Picked up some assorted wire terminals and but connectors today along with fuses I'll need. Hopefully I have most things now. No progress made though. Spent 8 hours getting the transmission back in my '92 hardbody now that the bearing shim I needed finally arrived. Need to connect the front driveshaft tomorrow and get the interior back together so I get the feeling the car is still a few days out before i continue progress again.

[Zetsaz]

More progress!

 

Wired the relay board with the materials I had on hand to test the MS3. Successfully got power to it (along with everything else on the stock harness... turns I'm at LEAST a good enough hobbyist mechanic to swap an entire chassis harness from one car to another and still figure out where everything goes nearly two years after the fact)

 

Spent entirely  too long wondering why I wasn't getting power. There was a wire creating a short that I had spliced when I removed the external voltage regulator. Once I untaped and moved stuff it seemed to fix the problem. Hopefully that's all it was or my headache will quickly return. Was able to connect to it with my laptop and flash new firmware with Tuner Studio.

 

Special shoutout to @seattlejester for putting up with, not just questions, but often unnecessarily my entire stream of consciousness while talking myself through correct wiring principles and materials needed. Some of the shielded spade ends I need for the inputs on the relay board aren't available in stores, so I'll be redoing the ends soon for a closer fit and security down the road. My new roommate works on small aircraft so he was able to help me with certain tools and supplies. Not much help on actual wiring for the car though. Turns out aircraft are even more different than cars than I realized. Not necessarily in basic safe wiring principles, just the way the systems are organized is much different. 

 

Side note: Some are probably thinking, where are the pictures of lizard skin being applied. What about the taillights? Well I haven't made a decision on the tail lights, but I didn't want to spray the interior without everything being ready. That being, the PO chopped some stock brackets that I need back in. I didn't want to weld them in after spraying and some required the dash to be at least mostly in place to fit it properly. So I figured I'd take the 10 minutes or so it takes to set the dash in place with all the primary bolts and got carried away with wiring. Dash placement and removal is incredibly simple and fast when all the hvac things are gone. 

[Zetsaz]

I am so. freaking. close....

 

I now have rpm signal, accurate air/coolant readings, fuel pressure, and confirmed that the injectors are firing (somewhat by accident, the o ring wasn't totally sealed on one of them and I saw vaporized fuel coming out around the o ring every time it fired).

 

I think it's a timing issue right now. My timing might be off, or the trigger disk isn't set up right. Will confirm tomorrow. 

 

Should have figured my roommate had a d sub pin tool. Mine is on the way but I was able at least get the fuel pump to work. Still want to remove the unused wires to tidy things up even while I'm working. 

 

Only downside right now is my starter solenoid is a goner. Was cranking okay until last night when suddenly all I got was a click when I turned the key. Bridged the posts with a screwdriver and It cranked, but would occasionally slip, so I think the gears aren't always engaging properly either. The thing was super crusty and old and probably on it's way out anyway, so it's a good thing I'm replacing it now before the car is moving, but still slows things down more. 

 

Might just get the engine fired up for the first time in almost 2 years before next week!

Edited April 17, 2020 by Zetsaz

[1969honda]

Keep after it Omar, glad to see things are moving forward. 

[Zetsaz]

13 minutes ago, 1969honda said:

Keep after it Omar, glad to see things are moving forward. 

 

Thanks! It's satisfying. I've been in front of screens way more than I'd like for work, but I've committed so spending any time I'd normally have an evening commitment or performance to working on the car instead so there are a lot of hours available to me that normally would have been spent with students outside of the regular school day. 

 

I figured out the problem (I think). The last owner mostly had things set up on the board, but I'm missing the resistor on R57 of the 3.57 pcb. I don't have surface mount resistors on hand and would have to wait for delivery on them since every electronics supply store around me is closed. I have some pth resistors I can put on the harness by the distributor since i have more room for error there and still have lots of wiring slack, but the way this is phrased on the diyautotune page for the trigger disk I can't tell if the option in parentheses only applies to the 3.0 board or both. Not sure why it wouldn't work for the 3.57 board I have as well, but I'm also a novice with electronics. I've built my own computers, but that's basically just big boy legos by comparison. 

 

Quote

• The MS3 manual generally favors the VR input, so we’ll be using that.
• Place the JP1 jumper in the 1-2 position for a V3.57. For a V3.0, jumper TachSelect to VRIN.
• Place the J1 jumper in the 3-4 position for a V3.57. For a V3.0, jumper TSEL to VROUT.
• Put a 1K resistor in the R57 slot on a V3.57. For a V3.0, run a 1K resistor from S12 to TachSelect. (Or you can use a 1K pull up in the wiring from a 12 volt source to pin 24 of the main board.)
• The second trigger input also needs a pull-up. Install JP7.

 

[Zetsaz]

Forgot to update here, but we got a first start!

 

#1 tooth angle was way off at the time I recorded for those who are friends on social media and saw my video. Got a timing light and was able to get the fixed timing within a few degrees so it wouldn't bog down and nearly shut off if I touched the gas. I have all my sensors calibrated, but the general timing map that tunerstudio loads in seems reeeaaally high. Low to high 30s almost everywhere. I'll try to run autotune today to at least get a closer idle and see if that helps, but I think I'm also pulling in more air than expected from the valve cover breather to intake. Seems like I'm getting some oil drawn in from there as well. 

 

Next steps before it drives will be 

-Trimming fuel filler neck opening (Is a couple mm from fitting through right now now matter how hard I try. 

-Tool finally arrived so I can  depin the wires I'm not using and clean up the harness

-Daisy chain the sensor grounds better than the previous owner had them, which was probably going to work for the way he planned it, but really far off for my plans. 

-Pull interior once I finalize wideband location to spray in lizard skin.

 

When It's all moving I'll throw some plain carpet in to avoid flattening spots on the lizard skin, but the interior will stay mostly empty while I strip out excess wiring from the stock body harness

[Jboogsthethug]

Man congrats on the first start! Such a nice feeling, you're so close to driving it again!! As far as timing goes, I know nothing so all I can do is cheer you on from the sidelines! What is your social handle?

[Zetsaz]

3 hours ago, Jboogsthethug said:

Man congrats on the first start! Such a nice feeling, you're so close to driving it again!! As far as timing goes, I know nothing so all I can do is cheer you on from the sidelines! What is your social handle?

 

I don't run any pages for the Z, I just meant people that follow my personal account on instagram or facebook. Feel free to find me though - Omar Ordonez.

 

Timing is tricky one since it's tough to properly dial it in for the best power without a dyno or some variety of knock sensor. I went through some shared maps from different people, but this is a less common mod for an NA car, so there were only a handful of close setups. Went with those for now and turned timing down slightly everywhere to avoid potential damage. 

 

TunerStudio's autotune will adjust VE tables, but I think that's not very helpful without the car moving. Once the rain stops again I can probably get the tank fitted and see what I can do. For now it's some fine adjustment settings like learning more about target AFRs and making sure the VE map is referencing them. 

 

Whole lot of new stuff to learn!

 

 

[jpndave]

Looking good Omar! 

 

When you get it all figured out I have a 92 LT1 down here that needs powered up on Megasquirt! 😁

[Zetsaz]

5 hours ago, jpndave said:

Looking good Omar! 

 

When you get it all figured out I have a 92 LT1 down here that needs powered up on Megasquirt! 😁

 

Honestly I overthought the whole process for so long while I accumulated all the parts I needed, and now that I've done it once I could probably do another one within a week as long as I had all the parts ready. No guarantees on how well it'll run though haha.

 

I keep thinking "what if I'm not satisfied with the power" since I didn't go with a turbo, but honestly, considering how rarely I wind up even the g37 I'll be fine for a long while while I make it the sort of car I want to drive regularly. Plus the costs for small things to get it running in a state that I would enjoy driving add up fast so i'm not worried about it.

[jpndave]

You'll be OK for a bit. Then the bug will bite and you will be piecing together a turbo setup. Going this route is safer anyway. You can get everything sorted out before adding the power, complexity, heat, everything that will be there with the turbo. It's easier to swallow in smaller bites. There will always be something...

 

Once it is running you can dial everything in to perform while enjoying driving it. I need to go back through your thread in more detail. I have just caught highlights as you have gone along. Keeps nudging me to look more seriously at my old girl. I'm excited for you with your car. Hearing it run is sure encouraging!

 

I have a Megasquirt and a Microsquirt here that I need to get rid of or do something with. That LT1 is sitting in a Cherokee XJ out back that needs to go away. Same with the Harley custom bike project I got the Microsquirt for. I need to sell the lot and put time and money towards the Z and my Jeep.

 

I keep looking at S85 V10 and Voodoo V8 engines, kind of leaning towards the V10 if I can sort out the T56 Magnum transmission connection and a dry sump. I have seen quite a few reports of issues with the Voodoo and the size and flatplane makes me nervous. The smaller displacement per cylinder (especially the short stroke) of the V10 is more settling. Either rev past 8K and both have the exotic sound. Decisions decisions. My son Colton is looking at swaps for his FRS. In that process he mentioned Motech controls. I didn't realize that the Motech computers allow traction control, so another reason to go BMW V10 would be to have that to keep from wrapping the Z around a pole.

Edited April 23, 2020 by jpndave