BluSkyLightning Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I am getting ready to pick up my first Z car, a 1976 260z. It's in pretty good shape, the previous owner had it undercoated so rust is very minimal. Long story short, the car currently has a 304 AMC V8 with some mild mods and a 727 Torqueflite automatic tranny. The rear end is PosiTrack, and it is in running and driving condition. The problem is that the motor is leaking and burning oil. It might be as simple as bad valve stem seals, or it could be worse. I was browsing craigslist looking for a car for my buddy coming back from deployment and found a 2jzgte with Auto Aristo tranny, ECU, wiring harness, etc. Pretty much everything needed to run the motor, including the factory twin turbos and manifolds. I called him and asked how much he'd sell the whole thing for, and he quoted me $2200. So, this is my conundrum. Should I keep the v8 swap going and either rebuild the 304, or possibly swap to another v8 that bolts right up to a 727 torqueflite, or should I swap both the engine and trans over to the 2jzgte with the auto 4 speed? The v8 rebuild would be easiest, but I'm not sure that I like the AMC 304. This one does have 340 heads, edelbrock intake, 650 carb, headers, and ignition. I'm not sure how much power this setup would make once rebuilt, I'm guessing around 300 give or take, probably closer to 250. As far as my main purpose for the car... I don't know for sure. Weekend warrior mostly, I doubt I'd take it out to either the drags or autocross very often. Hit me with your opinions and experiences, I love the Inline 6 turbo motors and would love to do a swap, but is the headache worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 It is a headache to be sure. Kind of a different situation when it is from an L motor, but having a v8 car kind of changes perspective. Really depends on what you want out of the car. It can be argued either way that one engine is easier to build than the other. It kind of boils down to what you want out of the project. If you decide to play with what you have, it will just be a matter of rebuilding a block or finding a suitable swap and swapping it in. If you decide to try and swap a 2jzgte, that is either a pretty pricey swap kit, or quite a bit of fabrication, potentially a lot more down time. This will also require changing the fuel system to fuel injection or the addition of a swirl pot (that may not be the right term but the term is escaping me). You can get quite a lot of power out of a v8 with cams, heads, headers etc, and if you choose you can always boost down the road, lots of torque on tap. You can also get a lot of power out of a 2jzgte with a bigger turbo, injectors, and a tune, most likely a higher peak hp number. Make a list for both and see which one comes out on top, the 2jz will be most likely down a bit since you would have to buy the motor, a swap kit, run a new fuel system, etc. If you do plan on swapping a 2jz, it may be wise not to invest in a v8 swapped car to start, kind of throwing all the work that went into getting that motor into the car out the window at that point. Choice is yours to decide, don't build the v8 if you love L6's, and don't swap the L6 in if you love your wallet. Wish I could give you more, but I haven't pushed my toyota inline 6 turbo motor yet. I have to say boost is quite nice, not sure if it is 10k worth of nice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluSkyLightning Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Well, the investment of the car is actually not bad, it's less than what stock cars in similar body conditions are going for. Ideally I could use the 727 Trans with an adapter to mate it up to the 2JZ, but I did some prelimiary research and it looks like they don't make them. I can probably have one made, but then again at the expense of time and $$$. I like the fact that the 2JZ is fuel injected and litterally comes with everything that I need to run it. ECU, wiring harness, injectors, it has it all, even down to a 4 inch exahust. I understand that fabbing up some engine and transmission mounts are time and $$$ consuming, that's kind of why I posted this, to hash the idea out with others in a similar mind set. Rebuilding the 304 is the cheapest route by a long shot. -Complete engine gasket set - $120 -Minimal downtime -Fabrication costs - $0 -Potential power 250-300 HP Swapping in a more potent v8, let's say a 360? 440's also bolt up to the 727 Torqueflite, but I'm not sure if the Z can fit a big block. -Engine - $?? Haven't found one local yet except for a fully built race 360 that the owner is asking 2k for. -Medium downtime -Fabrication costs - $100-200 for engine mounts if they are different -Potential power - 300-600 HP depending on amount invested in Engine 2JZ-GTE swap -Engine, Auto Transmission, ECU, wiring harness, intake and exhaust manifolds, stock twin turbos, 4" exhaust - $2200 - Longest downtime by far -Fabrication costs - $1000?? I know I'd need a custom driveshaft, the rear end on the car should be OK, I'm not sure 100% of what it is, but the owner does know that it is an LSD (Positrack). Could be from a Jeep or AMC, that's what the motor is from. Will need motor and transmission mounts, upgraded fuel system and tank, plus more. - Potential power - 300-450 HP using stock engine and transmission. Better drivability, plus dat turbo spool. Pushing for more HP out of the stock 2JZ is fine, I could get 700-900 with a big single turbo and decent manifold, fuel delivery, and tune, but then I'd have to drop some serious bucks into the Aristo tranny to keep it alive too. I'd love to run the 727 with the 2JZ, then I'd only need to fab up engine mounts, the drive shaft and rear end would be done already, and the 727 can be rebuilt for pretty cheap to take a massive beating. I see that they offer adapters for GM transmissions, but no Mopar ones, so that would need to be custom too. Edited July 21, 2014 by BluSkyLightning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yea finding an automatic that can handle a lot of power for the 2jz is going to be pricey. Maybe look for a scatter shield? I know they do make them to adapt quite a variety of engines to transmissions. Seems like you know the details, just up to you to decide. Rebuilding the V8 will be the cheapest and fastest route, swapping in the L6 will be more costly and time consuming. If you want a fabrication break down, the toyota section has an excellent walkthrough on what is required. The walkthrough ends with the engine in the car at the end of the weekend, so not an impossibility at all to do in a time table if you have the resources and space. From my experience: Drive shaft Wiring to splice in the toyota harness into the datsun harness Exhaust modification Fuse/relay box for relayed power sources A way to mount engine, either use the 2jz mounts and make a new cross member, or use a generic mount and make new mounts to the motor Radiator hoses Higher flow steel lines High pressure and flow fuel pump Fuel pressure regulator unless using stock unit Electric radiator fans unless you can get the factory fan right up there Intercooler piping kit Intercooler Little fittings/adapters for lines/hoses <-that stuff will kill your time table and budget, beware If you have the stock wiring harness, accessories, and ECU and the motor was running, then it is just a matter of positioning the motor, mounting it, feeding it fluids, and giving it an ignition power wire, and you will be away. Won't steer you away from it, but for me it was a lot more then I imagined, but I threw a lot of upgrades and other tidbits in on my build which complicated things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 How about an LS1? Keeps the weight further back in the chassis, and being all aluminum, it'll keep the overall weight down. IIRC, the 2JZ is very heavy motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedarkie Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Personally I'd look for an engine that can bolt right into place of that 304. I'm not at all familiar with that particular motor though. If it comes to it, rebuild and mod the V8, and swap to a 5/6 speed manual transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 A quick cruise of eBay will reveal plenty of Holley-Compatible EFI Air Doors and V8 EMS Systems that utilize modern crank fire ignition technology to update the AMC304 to EFI. Cheaply. The EMS doesn't care if it's on a Chevy or a Borgward... It cares about sensor inputs and etc. Putting a low boost turbo system on the 304 will have you easily at 450hp all day long with no structural work on something that you know runs and works. If the 360fits, maybe it's more parts compatible... If you are looking at turbo JZ, think about cast off SBC parts and some minimal fab work to fit it to that "Kansas Scarab" a low boost V8 is a hoot, and if EFI, all the better. Personally, I'd stick with the proven working combination and tweak/develop it to the next level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluSkyLightning Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the feedback, I talked it over with one of my good buddies last night and we have come to the same conclusion. I'm going to rebuild the 304 that's already installed (it does have some decent parts already on it) and have some fun with the car. I have plans for wheels and tires, suspension, and paint coming up too. I think the 2JZ, although incredibly bad ass, would be a little more than I want to bite off at the moment. If I do feel the need for more power, I think a low boost turbo v8 setup would be fantastic too, and should be relatively minimal fab work and down time. I will post pictures of the car once I buy it, should be here in the next couple of days hopefully. Edited July 22, 2014 by BluSkyLightning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluSkyLightning Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I also found an AMC 360 for sale locally for $300, it will probably need a complete rebuild, but if I do pick it up, most of these bolt ons from the 304 are a direct fit for the 360 too, so I can build the bottom end and swap everything over to the 360, which will then bolt directly to the 727. I think we have a winner! Edited July 22, 2014 by BluSkyLightning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I had an AMC 304 V8 (2 barrel Holley) in my old '72 International Scout II, and that was the most gutless engine I've ever owned. I had trouble driving up service ramps with it. I'm sure it's not the same engine as you have, but it reminded me that I kind of miss that old dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluSkyLightning Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yeah, stock 304's were not very powerful, but they are sturdy as a brick crap house. Depending on the year they had as much as 250 HP (stock) to as little as 125 HP according to my research. It depends on the SMOG stuff that's on it, and how de-tuned it is, newer 304's are worse than the older ones. 360's have more potential than 304's and there are more performance parts available, you can make nearly 500 HP with a built and balanced NA 360, a turbo 360 would be even more ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zster Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 My CJ5 304 engine was wore out. Replaced it with a 360.AMC from the junkyard replaced seals, mains, rings, valvejob and cam. It was a HUGE difference in power, everything bolts up same as blocks are identical, 360 is just a big bore 304.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluSkyLightning Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Sooo, the car that I planned to pick up this weekend was sold out from under me this morning. Not much I can do about it, so I'll have to keep looking. F#@$@#%!@#$%@#$%@#$%@#$% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Bummer, the Police Package 360's were a hoot. Those 125HP smog engines are similar to the 305/350 smog engines from Chevy...low compression and gutless... But that makes for SUCH a nice turbo swap. Too bad, I think even without the 360, that low boost turbo would have really surprised you in how fun it made the car to drive! Brake Torqued on-boost launches are always a hoot! Bummer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluSkyLightning Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Good news! The car didn't get sold to someone else, they called me back Saturday morning and asked if I still wanted it. I drove out later that day and picked it up. It was a nearly 3 hour drive each way and the car very nearly made it in one piece. I noticed that the engine was running warm, at least over 200 degrees, and stayed there. I filled it up with gas two times on the way back, on the second fill up it started up then died from vapor lock, as the fuel filter was dry as a bone. After I let it sit and cool down it fired right back up, and we were on our way again. After another 10 minutes on the highway, it ended up tossing the water pump and alternator belt. It may have been a bad or gummed up pump that was causing it to run hot, so that will be replaced very soon. I brought a buddy and a truck with me though, so we towed it back to my house the rest of the way and it's now sitting pretty in my garage. I have some pictures I took this morning of the still dirty car, I haven't had a chance to wash it yet and the previous owner lived on a long gravel road. It used to be a show car in Chicago, and it came with some trophies won by that owner, as well as some shop manuals and a couple of extra headlights. Here's the pictures! It is a vinyl top 260z, I didn't even know that these were made. I guess you learn something new every day. It's in very good condition all around, almost zero rust anywhere. The bottom and frame rails were undercoated by the owner in Chicago, the guy who used it as a show car. He also painted the car with it's current livery and it appears he used the car's weight in flake. It's a little too "bass boat" and not enough "bad ass" for my taste, but that will change with time. Edited July 30, 2014 by BluSkyLightning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 "Bass Boat" or "Bass Master Z"? The Compton Z-Posse had a purple metalflake Fairlady Z in it that was similar. "Bass Boat" hahaha, yeah, that's about the only place you will find flake like that outside of a Sno-Globe these days! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 BTW, the Vinyl Top was a port or Dealer Option. I bought a white with Maroon Vinyl Top 73 240Z for parts after an accident. I can deal with the two-tone on those lines. But the Vinyl....'abomination' comes to mind! LOL If it's in good shape, it's worthy of keeping, but if it's peely.....KILL IT! KILLLLLLLL IT! hahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Looks like a great find, congratulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluSkyLightning Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Is there anything needed to peel it off? I would honestly prefer a single solid color, but I'm not sure what all would be required to remove the vinyl. Is it just glued down? The top itself is black and appears to be in good shape. I am planning on painting the car in the future though. Edited July 28, 2014 by BluSkyLightning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 May or may not matter, but most 1976 cars have a voltmeter, you have an ammeter. Maybe it's an early 76, or it's actually a 75. Avoid some wiring confusion in the future. It looks like the Jeep market is really driving your engine options. They all look pretty tall though. http://www.tuffdawgengines.com/AMC.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.