Revised center console

[Vintage-TechZ]

Yep he has the AUTOCLAVE!!

I've seen the rolls of prepreg in the freezer. Definite higher costs dealing with the prepreg, but I thought it also saved at bit on the labor side.

The autoclave kills two birds with one stone,so to speak. With vacuum still under use while added PSI serves to further compact the laminate stack during the heat cure ramp-up cycle and ramp down cycle.

 

Within Infusion, the post cure heat cycle is simply done after an overnight room temp pre-cure.Then its placed in the post cure oven for final molecular alignment/Bonding matrix. An 8 hour cure is common.

 

So aside to the PSI addition, refridgerator utilities and cost uptick due to resin pre-prepped cloth, both systems are close to final per part costs. EXCEPT for the mold construction cost being more! They require specific tooling if made in composites to handle the loads and higher temps. OR....go with CNC billet tooling or tooling stock.

 

By the way, it was mentioned that Pre-preg requires De-bulking steps. Bare in mind so does Infusion if done correctly. I debulk my CF BMW Z4 coupe roofs three times with an overnight vacuum test prior to introducing resin. It helps consolodate the fibers idealy and makes the parts have a 'ring tone' when you flick your finger on them. Not a dull thud from a resin rich part.

[OldAndyAndTheSea]

 

By the way, it was mentioned that Pre-preg requires De-bulking steps. Bare in mind so does Infusion if done correctly. I debulk my CF BMW Z4 coupe roofs three times with an overnight vacuum test prior to introducing resin. It helps consolodate the fibers idealy and makes the parts have a 'ring tone' when you flick your finger on them. Not a dull thud from a resin rich part.

 

Great points. I failed to talk about the initial debulk(s). Thank you.

 

You can't consolidate too much.

 

Ideally, with infusion you are shooting for around 70-75% fiber loading (fiber: resin ratio). However, this varies with the materials being used.

 

Too little resin in the laminate = Dry... bad.

 

Too much resin in the laminate = Resin rich.....bad.

 

You'd like just the right amount.

 

 

Just got home from work, I brought the carbon and the tool home. I'm probably going to try to lay it up this evening.

 

I'll either update again, or edit with any progress.

 

 

EDIT: Got the first, and most important layer on. I'll say, this geometry is tricky. Still unsure of how it will come out. I won't be in until Monday to prep it for infusion. But, I'll finish laying up the remaining plies over the weekend.

 

At this point, I'm thinking I'm only going to offer glass consoles at this point, once the time comes.. The carbon ones, at least initially, are far too labor intensive, and they will almost always have some sort of flaw (in the twill) in them.

 

 

 

 

What an ordeal that was...haha

Edited November 22, 2014 by OldAndyAndTheSea

[Vintage-TechZ]

WHile this isn't considered a complex mold, it still can be challenging as a cosmetic part. If I might suggest....parts like these will benifit from making templates for pieces of cloth rather than one whole piece. Consider radius zones for where the cloth might marry well. The console will likely not show these blend points and if done with flair can actually make the final part look more technical.

[OldAndyAndTheSea]

Yeah, that was initially my plan with keeping the trim piece.

 

That would be a great place to have a seam, that the trim would then cover.

 

Bridging definitely is a concern along that area though. If I changed some geometry then it would be much easier to lay up. I wanted to replicate the original as closely as possible. I'll adapt and change as needed.

 

Again, though, great suggestion. Thank you for that.

 

Another thought was to have the interior portions of the console pockets be colored black, again utilizing the trim ring area as the transition area to visible carbon. If that area's aesthetics were eliminated, the rest would be significantly easier.

 

Like you said, it's not complex, but it certainly isn't an easy part to make either.

 

I'm having fun playing around, that's for sure.

 

I used non continuous pieces for the last remaining plies. I learned a lot about where I could cut and potentially blend.

 

 

I also have had thoughts of a total redesign, with an open cavity where those pockets are, and various inserts that are separate that can be inserted/bonded/swapped later. Two separate parts would be much easier.

 

Captain Hindsight at work once again.

 

 

Regardless, gotta push through with the first attempt. Most likely changes will need to happen.

 

But that's composites, isn't it?

Edited November 22, 2014 by OldAndyAndTheSea

[Vintage-TechZ]

Yeah, that was initially my plan with keeping the trim piece.

 

That would be a great place to have a seam, that the trim would then cover.

 

Bridging definitely is a concern along that area though. If I changed some geometry then it would be much easier to lay up. I wanted to replicate the original as closely as possible. I'll adapt and change as needed.

 

Again, though, great suggestion. Thank you for that.

 

Another thought was to have the interior portions of the console pockets be colored black, again utilizing the trim ring area as the transition area to visible carbon. If that area's aesthetics were eliminated, the rest would be significantly easier.

 

Like you said, it's not complex, but it certainly isn't an easy part to make either.

 

I'm having fun playing around, that's for sure.

 

I used non continuous pieces for the last remaining plies. I learned a lot about where I could cut and potentially blend.

 

 

I also have had thoughts of a total redesign, with an open cavity where those pockets are, and various inserts that are separate that can be inserted/bonded/swapped later. Two separate parts would be much easier.

 

Captain Hindsight at work once again.

 

 

Regardless, gotta push through with the first attempt. Most likely changes will need to happen.

 

But that's composites, isn't it?

 Thats right Andy! Remember, the OEM parts were pre-form glass mat with long and short strand mat. Waaaaay easier to press into the mold as it being glass which was gel coated in mold. Try using some thick clear plastic sheeting and spray gluing it into your mold to decide where each cut would be appropriate and then exacto cut or scissor the final shape as your templates making sure to use a permanant silver marker to show the weave orientation for later install of cloth. It guides your eye so your ply orientation ends up most linear. Although....sometimes, opposing weave direction can be appealing too! Artsy at that point.

[OldAndyAndTheSea]

Proof of concept. Roughly trimmed. Apologies for the god awful pictures. It's dark everywhere. EVERYWHERE!











Untrimmed weight was 640 grams. I forgot to reweigh after trimming, before I walked out the door.







Not quite production quality. While the twill conformed in one piece,  it is inconsistent in spots.



A couple problems.. mostly user error, some geometry based.

But, It works in carbon, with some tweaking.

That said, however, I'm going to make a new modified mold in order to improve quality control, reduce layup difficulty, and subsequently speed up the process significantly. While simultaneously incorporating different options depending on the application.

Lots to think about, but I have a plan.

 

Edited November 26, 2014 by OldAndyAndTheSea

[Vintage-TechZ]

Remember to use the zones which will be trimmed out as sacrificial areas that you can relief cut as you place the CF cloth in its final resting place. It will tug less in regions that need it to avoid weave distortions. Some careful planning of PIECE installation and overlaps on radius' will yield a very nice console once you've made patterns and stick with it. Replication will unfold the best methods.
 

Its looking good so far!

Another thought for this , you could make a 1.75mm smaller MALE plug to use as a platen press or full Caul plate. Dry load the male mold (easier),then compress it into the female mold firmly and then carefully remove the male. Place in your consumables and bag up.

To make an accurate 1.75mm male, you'll need to buy that specific thickness sheet wax as teh final part thickness. The wax sheet represents your CF final part thickness and you'll need to stick to your lay-up schedule each time when this is done.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Vintage-TechZ

[OldAndyAndTheSea]

Those are great ideas. The offset male plug as a caul plate is a beautiful idea. Total laminate thickness is only a few mils so it wouldn't be hard to do either.

 

At that point you could even adapt to a closed molding process. Add some resin injection/vac ports, and a sufficient inner and outer seal, you've got yourself a light resin transfer mold. Now with improved cosmetics on the B side too.

 

Way too many cool things to try.

 

...but I digress. haha.

 

 

 

I snapped some (moderately) better pictures today. I mocked some stuff up.

 

 

 

 

 

also got a post trim weight: 434 grams.

 

 

And to those of us celebrating Thanksgiving, have a safe and happy holiday.

Edited November 26, 2014 by OldAndyAndTheSea

[thedarkie]

Kudos on the great job so far...

 

I bet this really makes you appreciate the pro-level carbon fiber stuff with the weaves perfectly straight and aligned with one another. 

[RebekahsZ]

PM me please if you have one that fails to pass your QC as you improve production. I think your first one looks great, and I would sure buy it. I'm running no console right now because I push my fat butt out the door and over the door bar supporting myself on the door bar (left hand) and trans tunnel (right hand). I need a console strong to push against or I will break it.

[torqen2k1]

X2 on rebekahsZ comment as of quality. I think it looks good. He's read my mind. As I also would purchase that one. I have a feeling as oldandyandthesea has to start a group buy. wink wink.

 

Darek

[OldAndyAndTheSea]

Haha, that's just the prototype/proof of concept. They will get significantly better from here. I can't wait til I have one good enough to spray clear.

 

Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate them very much.

 

I'm fairly confident I have come up with a new way to produce the consoles more easily, with substantially higher quality control, and improved cosmetics.

 

I started this project initially with only me in mind. But since receiving interest from a few different members, I am now switching gears to make these producible in larger efficient runs.

 

 

 

Right now my plan is the following. Feel free to make any suggestions, as this is still just getting started.

 

 

There will be 2 base console shape options. Specifically for what transmission you are running. (both would still utilize the stock ashtray)

 

-OEM replica

 

-T-5 modified

 

 

 

Then there will be multiple options for inserts which will replace the stock storage compartments.

 

Options like:

 

-Cup holder

-Storage compartments, similar to OEM

-Solid top

 

 

Those inserts will be bonded in separately, before any post production painting/coating process occurs.

 

 

If I don't have to make a (new) separate plug and mold for each one of variations of the consoles that people want, it will help reduce cost, and the timeline.

 

Making molds of inserts is significantly easier than remaking molds of entire consoles.

 

That's my thought process so far.  

Edited November 27, 2014 by OldAndyAndTheSea

[JGREEZY]

CARBON FIBER PORN!!!! PUT ME DOWN FOR 1 FOR SURE

 

[m1ghtymaxXx]

Awesome thread! Any plans to make exterior parts Andy? 

[rturbo 930]

^ A fully carbon fiber hood and hatch would be awesome.

 

 

Appreciate you taking the time to post the whole process on here, I had no idea it was so involved!

Edited December 2, 2014 by rturbo 930

[OldAndyAndTheSea]

Thanks everyone!

 

I enjoy sharing the process.

 

 

Hoods and hatches are possible, but improbable at the moment since we have some ideas we'd like to try but at a later date due to constraints currently.

 

As far as the future? .....My plan is to make all the things I can't find, that I want for my car ('73 240z). Most of the market has been cornered.

 

 

We are looking to add a couple projects to the shop floor this winter, so I am thinking about starting up a clam shell (with optional gauge provision) project next/as well. I just need to procure a master, as mine (like most) is cracked and FUBAR. 

 

I'm currently modifying a plug to make a new mold to expedite the manufacturing processes of the consoles.

 

Sorry no pictures. But, just assume there's some sanding involved.

 

I'll update accordingly.

Edited December 3, 2014 by OldAndyAndTheSea

[Nelsonian]

I have a great condition 73' clamshell to use as a master and am very eager to see this come to fruition.

[LanceVance]

I've got a 75' clamshell with a small cosmetic crack. Perhaps better than sacrificing one in good condition?

[m1ghtymaxXx]

Just a thought, even the usual items (air dam, bumpers, spoiler, flares) for the most part are questionable quality. Surely many (myself included) would be thrilled about having a source who actually cares about the fitment of their parts rather than farming the work out. 

 

A finish quality carbon fiber 280Z vented hood would be cool too. 

 

Carbon intake plenum or surge tank? 

[OldAndyAndTheSea]

I have a great condition 73' clamshell to use as a master and am very eager to see this come to fruition.

 

If you would be willing to donate it to the cause, I'd owe you a finished product. Or I could purchase that one from you.

 

Shoot me a PM if you're interested.

 

 

I've got a 75' clamshell with a small cosmetic crack. Perhaps better than sacrificing one in good condition?

 

Unless the crack is entirely cosmetic (more of a scratch) I wouldn't want to use it as a model. If the crack is through the part I'd be too worried about maintaining geometric stability (keeping its shape).

 

 

Just a thought, even the usual items (air dam, bumpers, spoiler, flares) for the most part are questionable quality. Surely many (myself included) would be thrilled about having a source who actually cares about the fitment of their parts rather than farming the work out. 

 

A finish quality carbon fiber 280Z vented hood would be cool too. 

 

Carbon intake plenum or surge tank? 

 

Point taken, and fully understood.

 

 

As far as the intake/engine parts are concerned....Certainly doable, but then you have to start worrying about temperature.

 

Depending on how hot some engine bays get, that temperature may exceed the temperature gradient (TG) of the resin systems being used. TG is the max temperature a resin system can withstand, before losing physical properties.

 

Each resin system is different, so a little extra thought would have to be taken, that's all.

 

 

If I have my druthers, I plan to make the following for my car: Console, Dash, Door Panels, Clam Shell

 

We'll see.

 

 

 

It really helps me nail the details when we get the community involved.

 

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I appreciate it.

 

Edited December 3, 2014 by OldAndyAndTheSea