280z 302 sbf swap

[ISPKI]

Hey guys, been a loooong time since I was last on here. I am getting back into my engine swap project for my 77 280z. I sold the engine out of the z this year and picked up pieces for the swap. I am shooting for the following setup

302 EFI, W/C T5, unsure about rear differential

I have a W/C T5 already but it has no bellhousing, supposedly low miles

I have an 86 mustang GT 302 but I just obtained a free, running and driving 2001 Mercury Mountaineer with a 302 that I am told is the best factory 302 I can get, so I will likely be using that for the donor

I do not have a rear differential for the swap, that seems to be the only other BIG item that I am missing.

I have the solidwork prints from the Laine swap website and will likely be using those to fabricate my mounts.

I will be updating with pictures soon. Is there anything else I will need for the swap that I cannot pull from the Mountaineer? I was hoping I could use it's ECU and electrical system in the Z.

I would like to be producing over 200hp/325ft/lbs at the wheels with this setup. I was told that the cam in a mountaineer 302 is actually a truck cam and I could gain a decent HP boost (at the cost of a little torque) by swapping the cam out of my mustang GT 302. Does anyone have any experience with this?

[grannyknot]

Sounds like a plan, I did a similar swap into a 74 TR6 and it was a blast, the 2001 engine will be fairly light. There is lots of bad press about the WC T5 but I never had any problems with it.

Good luck.

[tim.d]

8 hours ago, ISPKI said:

Hey guys, been a loooong time since I was last on here. I am getting back into my engine swap project for my 77 280z. I sold the engine out of the z this year and picked up pieces for the swap. I am shooting for the following setup

302 EFI, W/C T5, unsure about rear differential

I have a W/C T5 already but it has no bellhousing, supposedly low miles

I have an 86 mustang GT 302 but I just obtained a free, running and driving 2001 Mercury Mountaineer with a 302 that I am told is the best factory 302 I can get, so I will likely be using that for the donor

I do not have a rear differential for the swap, that seems to be the only other BIG item that I am missing.

I have the solidwork prints from the Laine swap website and will likely be using those to fabricate my mounts.

I will be updating with pictures soon. Is there anything else I will need for the swap that I cannot pull from the Mountaineer? I was hoping I could use it's ECU and electrical system in the Z.

I would like to be producing over 200hp/325ft/lbs at the wheels with this setup. I was told that the cam in a mountaineer 302 is actually a truck cam and I could gain a decent HP boost (at the cost of a little torque) by swapping the cam out of my mustang GT 302. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Welcome Back!  I'm in the process of a similar swap, and was all set on the Mountaineer/Explorer 302, but out of pure circumstance I'm using a carb'd HO out of an 85 mustang...bought the car wrecked, cleaned up the interior, got a free engine and transmission and made 3 grand on the whole thing!   

But yes, to answer your questions....

-I've done a bunch of abuse to a bunch of different T5s in mustangs, and unless you're being actively stupid they're pretty reliable.  And if they do go, parts and upgrades are plentiful.

-I haven't looked at the later EFI pinouts in a long while since I have a carb'd engine, but IIRC it is integrated to the transmission controller and an immobilizer , so there may be some hiccups on those fronts.  Megasquirt makes a fairly drop in stand-alone with lots of available maps if you run into too many issues.

-the later model 302s are the ones to get. Distributorless, decent head and intake design, and strong power numbers that a cam swap will shift things around for a more "sporty" powerband.

 

Good to see more SBF cars on the board!  

[yellowoctupus]

This was my only concern, but if internet sources are to be trusted then I guess you're ok:  

 

Quote

 

'85 Mustang had roller cam, rest of the line in '86.

 

[tim.d]

Correct, 85+ were rollers.  Early EFI setups were notorious for having reliability issues, so it's a good thing he's using a later engine on that front.

Edited September 29, 2017 by tim.d

[ISPKI]

Yes, I have an 86 302 mostly apart with the roller cam. I will have to do some research amongst the foxbody/sbf crowd to figure out how it will effect the mountaineer engine's performance.

 

I was afraid that the engine control computer also interfaced with the transmission, although I have converted some vehicles from AT to ST and found that bypassing the neutral lockout was the only hurdle which consisted of jumping a couple wires in the harness.

[ISPKI]

My big "?" that I have not decided on is the rear differential. The car has an R180 in it right now which will not stand up to the 302. I may leave it in and run it briefly after the swap but I will need to replace it with something a little tougher. I know some R200s would work for it, and then there are R230s, but are there any other options beside those? I have read about swapping an 8.8 into it which I have, but, it seemed to be alot more work and money and I would lose my IRS, plus I dont think a 302 really warrants an 8.8 axle.

[yellowoctupus]

An R200 will last you a long time.  Seems that's not the weak link, it's the IRS universal joints (ask me how I know...) and then the outer stub axles can snap, but that takes some sticky tires, and hard launches.  A street driven 302 should be fine with an R200 and CV axles.  

[ISPKI]

What are the ideal R200 donors? 300zx? 240sx? Are there any other vehicles (non-nissan) that are also potential donor swaps that I should be looking out for?

[ZHoob2004]

Any manual 280z/280zx will have an r200. 300zx turbo has r200 with OEM LSD, I think the 240sx all have shortnose r200 diffs, so they aren't a direct bolt-in.

[ISPKI]

My 77 280z was a 3 spd auto, I believe it has an R180, 3.54 open. I dont think any R200 will be a direct bolt in

[NewZed]

The easiest, closest thing to a bolt-in, option might be one of these - https://whiteheadperformance.com/performance-parts/datsun-240z-260z-280z-1970-78/240z-280z-diff-differential-axles-lsd/  They are hard to find on the open market, the CL's and eBay's don't have many.

You can also get an open R200 and convert it to LSD with one of these - https://www.whiteheadperformance.com/?s=differential&post_type=product

Neither of these are bolt-in because you'll need a different mustache bar, and modified propeller (aka drive) shaft.

If you try to run all of that torque through an open R180 diff you'll probably just break it right away or it will wear out from spinning one wheel.

[ISPKI]

30 minutes ago, NewZed said:

The easiest, closest thing to a bolt-in, option might be one of these - https://whiteheadperformance.com/performance-parts/datsun-240z-260z-280z-1970-78/240z-280z-diff-differential-axles-lsd/  They are hard to find on the open market, the CL's and eBay's don't have many.

You can also get an open R200 and convert it to LSD with one of these - https://www.whiteheadperformance.com/?s=differential&post_type=product

Neither of these are bolt-in because you'll need a different mustache bar, and modified propeller (aka drive) shaft.

If you try to run all of that torque through an open R180 diff you'll probably just break it right away or it will wear out from spinning one wheel.

Thanks for the links there bud, bookmarked both of them. I was already assuming that I would need to have a driveshaft made. The mustache bar wont be an issue as I have all the tools needed to fabricate them. I have the prints from the Laine web page on my computer.

[NewZed]

No problem.  And I'm not your bud.

[240zdex]

Any update on your project I'm extremely interested in all of your output as we're doing just about the same build.

i bought a 86 gt with a WC 5speed for crack head prices and knew it had bad rings and found a 97 explorer 5.0 for $50 and sbf rpm carb intake I was going to source a set of gt40 heads.

I forgot what year distributor I bought but it's the steel gear one and plan on swapping cams before I put the engine in so it will match.

last few things I need are a carb, linkages,coil,plugs,wires,air filter,and gauges or the volt converter from ttt to use the stock gauges.

if you manage to get the fuel injection to work  relatively cheap and easy please let me know because I was going to use the 86 wiring and ecu but after a few min search found the 86 to be the worst year of the 5.0 efi 

[ISPKI]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 1:17 AM, 240zdex said:

Any update on your project I'm extremely interested in all of your output as we're doing just about the same build.

i bought a 86 gt with a WC 5speed for crack head prices and knew it had bad rings and found a 97 explorer 5.0 for $50 and sbf rpm carb intake I was going to source a set of gt40 heads.

I forgot what year distributor I bought but it's the steel gear one and plan on swapping cams before I put the engine in so it will match.

last few things I need are a carb, linkages,coil,plugs,wires,air filter,and gauges or the volt converter from ttt to use the stock gauges.

if you manage to get the fuel injection to work  relatively cheap and easy please let me know because I was going to use the 86 wiring and ecu but after a few min search found the 86 to be the worst year of the 5.0 efi 

Hey! Yeah ive been spending a lot of time over on Corral forums figuring out the 5.0.

 

I pulled the engine and the entire electrical system out of the mountaineer without damaging it. Something I didn't realize was that this is the post-modular EFI system which does not use a distributor. Supposed to be a much more robust and efficient system with much better tuning options but the options aren't as well documented as the older EFI systems. Engine is currently sitting on my crane, waiting for bolts to mount it to my stand. I just dragged the mountaineer out of my shop.

 

I am looking at two options for the EFI system. I can either use the factory EFI system and buy a quarterhorse or F75 chip from Moates. That will allow me to tune and control the Factory ECU. This is required for a number of reasons; The ECU will be in limp mode because I wont have the AT which also means I wont have the VSS signal that was from the AT. Also - The passive anti theft system will need to be deactivated. The quarterhorse setup will run me about 500$ for the hardware and software.

 

Alternatively, I could use the Megasquirt 2 DIY kit which is ~350-450$ with the harness and software. This is fully programmable and bypasses the security and what not.

[ISPKI]

Yeah the 1st gen EFI system in the mustangs were very unreliable. The only other big piece of this puzzle is the rearend, I still havent sourced one. I was looking at trying to find an r230 but they seem to be just as difficult to find as an LSD r200.

 

I did find that Mercedes benz used r230 rears in a number of mid 2000s sedans, but i believe they are geared pretty low, around 2.75 or something. Not sure if that would be very good in my setup but they are filthy cheap on ebay.

[Neverdone]

The R230 for the most part comes out of a Z32 300zx turbo. You can also get the R200 out of a 89-95 Q45 which also comes with an LSD. 

 

Mounting them has always been a bit of an issue as they are shaped vastly different than the longnose R200 or stock R180. 

 

There are some options currently out there, and they are well built, but they aren't cheap. But nothing that's really good usually ever is.

[ISPKI]

20 hours ago, Neverdone said:

The R230 for the most part comes out of a Z32 300zx turbo. You can also get the R200 out of a 89-95 Q45 which also comes with an LSD. 

 

Mounting them has always been a bit of an issue as they are shaped vastly different than the longnose R200 or stock R180. 

 

There are some options currently out there, and they are well built, but they aren't cheap. But nothing that's really good usually ever is.

I also read that Nissan Armada SUVs use an R230 as their front differential. Might be able to find one of those in a junkyard. 

 

What differential do post 2000 maximas use?

[ZHoob2004]

The maxima has been FWD since 1984, so the differential won't be any use to you.