Ford Super 8.8 irs swap thread. Rear brakes too

[Invincibleextremes]

Just took apart the 2015 axles to send them out and get them cut and splined for 75 each.  It's costing me a total of 300 or less for the pair of axles for this swap.

[ISPKI]

Have you looked into having the axles cut and then welded rather than resplined? If they need to be shortened, it may be possible for a high tech welding shop to simply weld the two halves back together.

 

Although, if it only costs 75$ ea to have them cut and splined then high tech welding may not make sense.

 

Do you know if the shop that is cutting the splines is going to induction heat treat the splines as well? Not sure if this applies to all axle shafts but I have read that it is common for only the splines to be induction hardened.

Edited May 12, 2018 by ISPKI

[Invincibleextremes]

I doubt they're going to harden them.  Really depends on the shop.  And as far as welding the axles, I wouldn't do that.  Once I start making serious power in this car I plan on buying 2,000 hp axles.  They're only 1,400 so it's well worth it.

[ISPKI]

You said in your initial post that this setup could use the 2002 and up explorer 8.8 by simply using 31 splines instead of 34 on the end of the CV joint. Would it also work for older 8.8s out of explorers? I have an 01 out of a mountaineer that I believe is identical to the 02 explorer 8.8; 3.73 gear, LSD, 31 spline, disc brakes.

[jpndave]

The Super 8.8 certainly shows the most promise of any of the differentials I've seen. Better/stronger/easier mounting points. Stronger all around, easy to pick up a takeout reasonably priced. Good aftermarket support (it's a mustang).  All of this is just going to be better as time marches on since every new mustang uses it. @1969hondaand I are working on a version using these diffs for our cars. We have iron and aluminum cases as well as limited slip and torsion centers. We're going all out on suspension/hubs/brakes with A-arm suspension rather than struts but mounting up the center will be a commonality no matter what is done outside that. We also have a complete Mustang sub-frame (he does) for reference and have toyed with using as many of the parts possible. I'm using aluminum center, Torsen T2, 3.73 as it matches up to my T56 Magnum ratios and Voodoo power range. @1969honda Is iron center, limited slip and 3.15 or 3.31 to better match his setup, more bottom power, less stratosphere RPM, different T56 ratios.

 

One additional positive not mentioned is that with mustang parts even if you want upgraded Wilwood or whatever performance  brakes they are readily available. The new stock stuff is no slouch in the performance department. And that's on a mustang, take off 1000-1500 lbs and it just gets better. Once we fixture up, we can share designs or parts as interest dictates. Seems like you are headed in a good direction here. The thing is here on this site we have everything from R180 upgrade to supercar builds. Your universal take should go a long way no matter the direction a particular build is headed and allows upgrades to the outers later as necessary.

 

I agree that welding shafts is a really bad idea. Resplined as a budget starting point up to 930 CV/300M shafts at the top end.

 

Keep up the good work,

 

Dave

[Invincibleextremes]

8 hours ago, ISPKI said:

You said in your initial post that this setup could use the 2002 and up explorer 8.8 by simply using 31 splines instead of 34 on the end of the CV joint. Would it also work for older 8.8s out of explorers? I have an 01 out of a mountaineer that I believe is identical to the 02 explorer 8.8; 3.73 gear, LSD, 31 spline, disc brakes.

I also stated in a later post why I will not be using the explorer 8.8, I'd be more than happy to build you a mount, but it's not something I will be producing full time.

[Invincibleextremes]

2 hours ago, jpndave said:

The Super 8.8 certainly shows the most promise of any of the differentials I've seen. Better/stronger/easier mounting points. Stronger all around, easy to pick up a takeout reasonably priced. Good aftermarket support (it's a mustang).  All of this is just going to be better as time marches on since every new mustang uses it. @1969hondaand I are working on a version using these diffs for our cars. We have iron and aluminum cases as well as limited slip and torsion centers. We're going all out on suspension/hubs/brakes with A-arm suspension rather than struts but mounting up the center will be a commonality no matter what is done outside that. We also have a complete Mustang sub-frame (he does) for reference and have toyed with using as many of the parts possible. I'm using aluminum center, Torsen T2, 3.73 as it matches up to my T56 Magnum ratios and Voodoo power range. @1969honda Is iron center, limited slip and 3.15 or 3.31 to better match his setup, more bottom power, less stratosphere RPM, different T56 ratios.

 

One additional positive not mentioned is that with mustang parts even if you want upgraded Wilwood or whatever performance  brakes they are readily available. The new stock stuff is no slouch in the performance department. And that's on a mustang, take off 1000-1500 lbs and it just gets better. Once we fixture up, we can share designs or parts as interest dictates. Seems like you are headed in a good direction here. The thing is here on this site we have everything from R180 upgrade to supercar builds. Your universal take should go a long way no matter the direction a particular build is headed and allows upgrades to the outers later as necessary.

 

I agree that welding shafts is a really bad idea. Resplined as a budget starting point up to 930 CV/300M shafts at the top end.

 

Keep up the good work,

 

Dave

Thanks.  Yeah my ideas will be public and in place in a few days.  That's awesome you're building A arms and such, I toyed with the idea of using the entire setup, but there's just too many moving pieces... so I'm sticking to datsun geometry.

 

It may even come to pass that your A arms and my cradles will be the go to for guys with high hp... or it may not, as it's highly unlikely you're going to use the factory r200 mount points...  either way, it's a win win for everyone.

 

The points you bring up about the super 8.8 is exactly what I've been saying about it.  They are hands down better than anything else out there for the money.

 

My reasoning for the 2014 brakes and the 1995 brakes are because im using 2014 fronts and the 1995 is a great option for guys wanting 15 inch rear slicks...  so it's a win win.

 

And yeah, I'm going for knuckles, because of the neon coilovers, and because there's a lot already available in terms of custom control arms and r200 mustache bars.

[jpndave]

We have this if you need any reference dimensions. Complete subframe drop. Probably won't be using much of it but it wasn't really any more $ and we can reference the complete assembly for mockup. We're considering the hubs and brakes, tried to get the carriers to work too but I think it will compromise geometry too much for those parts. If we can get the hubs/calipers/rotors to work, ABS might be doable as well. I'm just concerned a bit with the stagger I was planning as it might throw off the ABS computer. We'll see, need to get the house/shop done and get some time to test fit up parts. JD is further along on his rotisserie and that will certainly make it a lot easier. This assembly is his other than the aluminum case as he's using the nodular one for strength. I'm chancing it to save weight and my power will hit differently, not as hard down low, more on top. Fingers crossed I don't regret it. Just need it to hold 500 at the tires.

 

We're planning to tie all the structure together front to back including a mild cage so integrating pickup points for the mounts will be in that plan. Doesn't make for stock bolt in compatibility like your design. If we can retain that we will but I really doubt it. This one doesn't have the upgraded calipers but it does have the vented rotors. The stock A-Arm setup is a little goofy with the extra linkage on it. I think we'll be fabbing that to fit. Center for sure but anything else that's usable is a plus as it is there and paid for.

 

Let me know if I'm hijacking too much here.

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by jpndave

[jpndave]

Here are two views of the nodular diff from my build thread here even though I'm using the aluminum case, they look the same. Need to update the photos. I have opened up the case to look at the Torsen and Limited slip. I'll try and get photos of both versions.

 

Does this help to see why Invincibleextremes is so stoked about the prospect? Look at the strength of the pickup points and the just the ease of mounting the thing in there. Plus it's stronger case and internals, across the board. Factory and aftermarket support is great as every new body style Mustang gets it in one form or another. Aluminum behind the automatic smaller engine cars, Nodular in the upper models, Torsen in the race package and limited slip as far as I know it across the board unless it gets the Torsen T2.

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by jpndave

[Invincibleextremes]

Yeah I was really tempted to do a complete subframe, but the 64 inch track width didn't appeal to me, plus it would only solve the issue of a monster diff in my car, not the masses... 

 

And because I have a youtube channel, and there's a MASSIVE hole in the market for affordable differential solutions and coilover and disc brakes I figured bringing some to market was a no brainer.

 

Btw, if you could give me the outer dimensions of the front diff mount bushings I would be greatful.  I don't have any on hand but I plan in using them in a different location to isolate the diff.  The factory 4 holes are all going to be hard mount, and the bushings will be on the mustache bar and on the very front.  I'm detaching the very front bit from the rest of the cradle, and using bushings between the two parts.

[ISPKI]

22 hours ago, Invincibleextremes said:

I also stated in a later post why I will not be using the explorer 8.8, I'd be more than happy to build you a mount, but it's not something I will be producing full time.

Oh, i didnt see where you posted that. I will likely build my own mount specific to my setup but im still interested in your process and how you are designing your custom knuckle.

[Invincibleextremes]

Already designed it, just need to build a mockup, check all the shapes in real life, and then get the pieces laser cut, welded together etc.

[ISPKI]

What material are you fabricating it from?

 

What are you looking at for the welding process?

[Invincibleextremes]

Most likely mig, it'll be steel, 1/2 inch on some parts, 1 inch on others, then all drilled using a jig and then welded together using another jig.  The bolt on hub will add strength as well.

I have no idea on what you'll be using for a bolt on hub, since the explorers use a press in bearing, but I would gladly sell you a pair of knuckles that you can drill for your own hub of choice or just use 2015 mustang hubs like I am.  Also, the drive line shop has 930 axles for both the explorer 31 spline and the 2015 mustang 34 spline, so getting axles to use 2015 mustang hubs and the explorer diff is an off the shelf combo that they will gladly sell you.

[Invincibleextremes]

Made lots of progress today.  Tomorrow I'm going to finish up the dog leg on the uprights and the spindle pin sleave and reinstall the control arms on the rear so I can see where the camber comes out to under load and make changes from there.

 

2015 rear hub, and 2014 mustang brakes.  Still plenty to do, and I need to finish the diff cradle as well.

[Invincibleextremes]

Got the left hand knuckle prototype done.  Angles came out exactly how I want them, with tons of room to adjust camber, so I'll be mirroring it on the other side. Then back to working on the 2015 mustang diff mount.

[caperix]

Looking good, I like the options this opens up.  One question, did you look into putting sn97 cobra bearings & hubs into the factory Datsun struts? They are very close in outside diameter & it may be easier than making a whole new upright.

[Invincibleextremes]

I looked into it for all of 3 seconds.  It wasn't a viable option.

 

The uprights are going to cost 400 for the pair, and this in turn allows the use of much cheaper 2004 srt4 coilovers and which in turn also allows cheap disc brakes to bolt on. And that's just in the rear. Up front the coilovers and spindles allow for extremely cheap 5 lug disc brakes, and coilovers and also open up the setup for proper geometry using Subaru wrx non sti steering racks, which were otherwise too wide at the pivot points for stock 240z geometry.

 

This allows two things....  near bolt on power steering, and affordable right hand drive conversions for guys like me who just feel like doing that.

 

So many wins on so many levels it's just mind blowing.

[ISPKI]

On 5/19/2018 at 9:28 PM, caperix said:

Looking good, I like the options this opens up.  One question, did you look into putting sn97 cobra bearings & hubs into the factory Datsun struts? They are very close in outside diameter & it may be easier than making a whole new upright.

That is something that I was wondering as well, although I was looking into how to adapt the datsun hub assy to accept a cv spline shaft. That may be better for some of our applications, but this build seems more universally useful.

 

What did you use to attached the bottom of the knuckle to the control arm? Is it just a threaded rod or is there more to it that isnt visible?

[Invincibleextremes]

Threaded rod would blow apart and more than likely kill someone.  It's the factory spindle pins.  My brother works for a manufacturing place and made them for me on his lunch break on a lathe.  So basically it'll replace factory parts and be 100 percent bolt on.