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Anyone running an R180 for racing application?


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Cleaning up the Subie R180 with a wire wheel, primed with self etching primer, and followed by single component spray can black epoxy. Here is a pic of it primered. I swapped the yoke with the one from my 280z R200. The diameter of the z Yoke Shaft OD looks like it’s 2-4mm wider. It’s a super snug fit into the front main seal. Hope the extra OD doesn’t ruin the seal. Definitely feel more resistance when I turn the shaft.

 

anyone else experience this? I guess there is only one way to find out if it will work :) 

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Thanks for the wealth of knowledge! I reached out to Fritz and he showed me another source for the LSD. Il be placing an order for his shafts shortly. I think this will be the best value overall, give

@calZ LOL, fair point  I have been spending way too much time fabricating rust replacements, replacing roll bar mounts, and reinforcing the chassis. I think I'm getting carried away. I have been cutti

A couple of things based on 17 years and over 225+ track days with a 240 race car:   Stock diff mount welded with two steel bars (17 years and no issues) Engine HP ranged from 150 t

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There are multiple pinion flanges for the R200; and IIRC, not all of them have the same diameter shaft.  I believe yours (large round flange) may be one of those with a thicker shaft.  You should be able to get the correct pinion flange pretty easily....seems like there's a lot of them floating around (but you will probably have to change the flange on your driveshaft.)

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21 hours ago, jhm said:

There are multiple pinion flanges for the R200; and IIRC, not all of them have the same diameter shaft.  I believe yours (large round flange) may be one of those with a thicker shaft.  You should be able to get the correct pinion flange pretty easily....seems like there's a lot of them floating around (but you will probably have to change the flange on your driveshaft.)


Got the right yoke. This one is from a OEM 240z R180. It did match-up to the 280z driveshaft I have. Here’s hoping the length works too. Diff is cleaned/painted with black epoxy, and took the opportunity to clean up the tranny tunnel where it meets the diff. Going to let the undercoating cure for a few days then install.

 

New predicament. The diff cover mounting studs are too long on this guy. Looking at photos of alternate covers, it’s seems I should be able to just unscrew the existing studs and replace with shorter units? I had not read this issue on the swap write-ups I had looked at. Ah well :)  Il also see if an M12X1.25 die will work. 

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Edited by AydinZ71
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On 2/8/2021 at 8:50 AM, AydinZ71 said:

New predicament. The diff cover mounting studs are too long on this guy. Looking at photos of alternate covers, it’s seems I should be able to just unscrew the existing studs and replace with shorter units? I had not read this issue on the swap write-ups I had looked at. Ah well :)  Il also see if an M12X1.25 die will work. 

 

Yep, you can replace those studs with shorter ones, or shorten your existing studs to the correct length (assuming that there is sufficient threaded length on those studs to do that.)  I've also seen people replace the threaded studs with bolts, but that can make it a little trickier to install the diff.  Your choice.

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54 minutes ago, jhm said:

 

Yep, you can replace those studs with shorter ones, or shorten your existing studs to the correct length (assuming that there is sufficient threaded length on those studs to do that.)  I've also seen people replace the threaded studs with bolts, but that can make it a little trickier to install the diff.  Your choice.


yep! Got them off with vice grips yesterday and ordered the right studs from zcardepot. Kind of a rip off for 8 bucks a piece, but it will save me time so worth it. They have 1.75mm Pitch thread on one side and 1.25 on the other, so not exactly common. 
 

just need to rough-in my fuel lines and il be able to get everything bolted back in. 

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A couple of things based on 17 years and over 225+ track days with a 240 race car:

 

  • Stock diff mount welded with two steel bars (17 years and no issues)
  • Engine HP ranged from 150 to 350+ @rw
  • Ran stock half shafts for 15 years with no issues
  • Used any number of R180 diffs (3:90 Quaife/4:11 Quaife/4:38 OS Giken)
  • Ran a 4:44 R190 LSD (stump puller)
  • Swapped in an R200 3:90 w/Quaife using 300ZXT CVs w/Modern Motorsports stub axles

The swap to the R200 was in response to toasting two R180s due to the 250rwhp/250#storque/10 inch wide rear R7 Hoosiers. One went after just 45 minutes at VIR on the R7s.

During use in my street/track 240 and again in the race car, the bolts on the CVs have never, ever gotten loose and they are not wire tied. I use Nord washers and blue Lock-tite instead. 

 

NJrear19.jpg

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@gnosez thanks for the feedback! This car is set up for EP at the moment, so I am expecting less than 150ft-lbs RWT. Engine is limited to 2.4L, 12:1 Static CR, and must use SU’s. Wheels are maxed at 15X7”, but can run full race slicks. It’s about a 25lbs savings going from the R200 helical to R180 helical. I hope she holds up! i also hear

good things about Fritz’s CV’s, but again time will tell. Since the cheapest adapters for the stock shafts were $500, and Fritz’s CV are integrated with the right bolt pattern for $1,000, it seemed like a reasonable splurge. I like the nord washer & blue locktite combo. 
 

You certainly have the experience, so il take anymore advice you got! 

Edited by AydinZ71
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Aydin71 - I fully understand that you have certain regulations and rules limiting what you can and can't do.  I should be very upfront and admit I'm a Quaife or OS Giken fan even though I have run an '89 LSD unit for years. The late John Coffey got me into OS Giken after testing a unit giving him a full second over the Quaife and 2.5 over the LSD unit. Quaife is good for life even if you race it.  

I'm on the east coast so shipping would be expensive but I would look for someone selling a Datsun R180 in the right ratio for you (3:90/4:11/4:38?) and then install a Quaife or OS Giken. You could stay with the half shafts and spend the money on the diff with no adapters needed.

As to going with CVs over half shafts, the only reason I swapped them in was because I already had an R200 w/Quaife that had the CVs so it was a lo-cost event for me. 

FYI - the guys running GT2 Datsuns around my neck of the woods have switched over to T5 trannies with a GForce center section due to the numerous failures of the 280 and 280ZX 5spds.

As much as I wish for a lighter car I know that better driver would be faster, so weight isn't everything.

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@gnosez well you are the right person to speak too! Gosh I may have made different decisions now since I have the diff and the CV’s are in the way 😂 Still, ya live and you learn. 
 

i think my background and goals would be helpful. This is a SCCA vintage racing car that had huge amounts of rust, which I discovered post purchase. I was intending for it to first be a hot rod, but I started to appreciate how much effort had gone into making it a race car. So I decided to restore it as the closest thing I feel it would qualify for: EP. I never even considered if I would ever race it myself, but I enjoy the build process as a mechanical engineer and mechanic 🤷🏽‍♂️ I hope I can make something I can be proud of, even if I won’t be the ultimate driver.

 

The improvement you mentioned with the OS Giken is huge! Maybe il still consider it if I find the funds. Would love to chat with you sometime and get your frank feedback! 
 

-Aydin 

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5 hours ago, JMortensen said:

Quaife is no longer warrantying their units for life. Mark Haag had issues and they basically told him tough luck. I think the shop he was using was able to make it functional again.


I wonder how the OEM helical (Torsten) Subaru (17’ for example) measures  up to another helical unit like qualify. OEM units usually have a good reputation reliability wise. At least now I know a clutched OSGiken unit is king. $1400. 

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When I sold diff parts for Randy's Ring and Pinion we had a shelf full of GM 7.5" Torsens marked down to $150. Nobody bought one in the little more than a year I worked there, partly because the GM 7.5 is too small for the Camaro they put it in and people usually moved away from it and went to an 8.5 or 9" diff, but still. Practically couldn't give them away.

Quaifes have this incredible reputation and honestly, the only thing I thought it had going for it was the lifetime warranty. Helicals tend to spin the inside tire way too easy. Huge improvement over an open diff, but I'd rather have a clutch LSD, and the OS Giken is the best of those for our cars, but I'd put the Nissan clutch LSD in front of the Torsen, and probably the KAAZ 1.5 way ahead of the Nissan, although I haven't actually used the KAAZ, the 1.5 way should be an advantage.

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6 hours ago, JMortensen said:

When I sold diff parts for Randy's Ring and Pinion we had a shelf full of GM 7.5" Torsens marked down to $150. Nobody bought one in the little more than a year I worked there, partly because the GM 7.5 is too small for the Camaro they put it in and people usually moved away from it and went to an 8.5 or 9" diff, but still. Practically couldn't give them away.

Quaifes have this incredible reputation and honestly, the only thing I thought it had going for it was the lifetime warranty. Helicals tend to spin the inside tire way too easy. Huge improvement over an open diff, but I'd rather have a clutch LSD, and the OS Giken is the best of those for our cars, but I'd put the Nissan clutch LSD in front of the Torsen, and probably the KAAZ 1.5 way ahead of the Nissan, although I haven't actually used the KAAZ, the 1.5 way should be an advantage.


that makes good sense. Looks like this will be the “entry level” racer 😂. Still like you said, but improvement over open.

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14 hours ago, JMortensen said:

Quaife is no longer warrantying their units for life. Mark Haag had issues and they basically told him tough luck. I think the shop he was using was able to make it functional again.

Just a point of detail, Quaife do still offer the lifetime warranty, they just exclude the US, Canada and Mexico. 

No idea why. 

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Jon Mortensen - do you get the same reaction (spinning the inside tire) on both tracks and autocross courses?  I haven't autocrossed in years so all I have now is track experiences using a Quaife and I have not had the inner tire spin early. Perhaps this is a sharp, tight, high torque corner issue normally not found on a race track. Just wondering,,,

Edited by gnosez
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